Funny Rat

[.:.impossible]

FWIW, I think the Sachiko/Toshi Ersts (do, Weather Sky, Cosmos, Good Morning Good Night) are some of the strongest releases on the label, those would probably all be in my personal top 10 or 12. I wouldn't expect them to be big favorites around these parts, though.

Cosmos will be making their US debut in late September at ErstQuake 3 in NYC, I'm really excited about that, haven't seen them since 2002.

Jon, why wouldn't you expect them to be big favorites here, as opposed to any other place? I'm just curious. I had a lot of fun singing along to Cosmos. I wouldn't say it is a favorite, as I don't hear anything exceptional about what Ami Yoshida does with her voice. I've only listened to it once though...

[Д.Д.]

Jon, why wouldn't you expect them to be big favorites here, as opposed to any other place? I'm just curious. I had a lot of fun singing along to Cosmos. I wouldn't say it is a favorite, as I don't hear anything exceptional about what Ami Yoshida does with her voice. I've only listened to it once though...

talking about exceptional vocalists, have you heard Sainkho Namchulak?

[jon abbey]

Jon, why wouldn't you expect them to be big favorites here, as opposed to any other place?

because the tastes of the people on this thread seem generally to be rooted in Euro free improv, or US artists following in their footsteps, and what the Tokyo crew do is a decidedly different thing.

you don't hear anything exceptional about what Ami does with her voice? hmm, I don't even really know how to respond to that. FWIW, there's no electronic manipulation involved, just her singing into a microphone.

bringing this sidetrack full circle, Sainkho sat in for one of the sets of the Evan Parker Electroacoustic Ensemble night Nate and I saw in Victo a while back.

[Д.Д.]

Jon, why wouldn't you expect them to be big favorites here, as opposed to any other place?

because the tastes of the people on this thread seem generally to be rooted in Euro free improv, or US artists following in their footsteps, and what the Tokyo crew do is a decidedly different thing.

I like what Tokyo crew is doing.

[jon abbey]

"Tokyo crew" is shorthand, you know precisely what I mean.

[Д.Д.]

"Tokyo crew" is shorthand, you know precisely what I mean.

I do, I do.

Honestly, other than Otomo, Sachiko and Toshimaru, I really haven't heard anybody from The Tokyo Crew.

I also don't know what the last name for Japanese is (Otomo or Nakamura?).

Edited April 17, 2006 by Д.Д.

[David Ayers]

"Tokyo crew" is shorthand, you know precisely what I mean.

I do, I do.

Honestly, other than Otomo, Sachiko and Toshimaru, I really haven't heard anybody from The Tokyo Crew.

I also don't know what the last name for Japanese is (Otomo or Nakamura?).

Looks interesting - are you recommending it? And do I go for the Japanese issue or the Cortical?

Edited April 17, 2006 by David Ayers

[.:.impossible]

FWIW, there's no electronic manipulation involved, just her singing into a microphone.

I'm not being difficult, but it doesn't sound like there is any electronic manipulation involved. She sounds like she is making sounds with her throat and mouth.

I respect the hell out of Erstwhile and related recordings for challenging me to listen and think differently. I just haven't yet found the depth or, say, joy in Cosmos that I find in, for instance, tint (from the Amplify 2002 box). I don't think I am being dense, I just felt silly for listening tor to Cosmos. This doesn't mean I have written it off, just that I did not get it.

Hahen Fukei just came on the stereo from the Otomo Yoshihide album DREAMS. I really like Sachiko M in this setting, but I am still on the fence about sine waves in more intimate settings myself. I do like the more erratic uses of the machines though.

Hey, I'm new to all of this stuff and still forming my opinions. I hope I am not coming off as closed-minded.

[Guest Chaney]

.:.impossible: Many of us in this thread are your fellow travelers. The only Rat I know of well-versed in the whole EAI thang is John B.

~~~~~~~~~~

Signifying Junkie: A Non-Believer’s Appreciation of Bill Evans by Tom Djll

Edited April 17, 2006 by Chaney

[.:.impossible]

John B and I have talked about Cosmos before, I think. If I remember, this is one of the Ersts that he did not own. I haven't seen much discussion of this recording anywhere. I may have read a few comments on ihm...

I just don't want to come off as unappreciative for all that Jon Abbey does, and I don't want to come off like I have already made my decisions and that is that.

[jon abbey]

I just don't want to come off as unappreciative for all that Jon Abbey does, and I don't want to come off like I have already made my decisions and that is that.

no worries, you don't have to hold your tongue around me. I really just never heard that kind of take on Ami before, and don't know how to react to it.

[Д.Д.]

Looks interesting - are you recommending it? And do I go for the Japanese issue or the Cortical?

This is extremely brutal scream-fest, I am not even sure what to compare it with (imagine Brötzmann and Bailey at their most noisy). I like it a lot. I have DIW edition, and the sound quality is very good.

[Д.Д.]

Signifying Junkie: A Non-Believer’s Appreciation of Bill Evans by Tom Djll

I read it ealrier today, and it resonates strongly with my lack of adoration for Evans' music. And of what I heard, the Village Vanguard material is my least favorite (my favorite is probably What's new - a rather muscular date with Jeremy Steig, Eddie Gomez and Marty Morrell).

[jon abbey]

I'd recommend these two Takayanagi discs over the collaborations with Abe (plus they're cheaper):

http://www.fe.org/artists/takayanagi.new.d...n.masayuki.html

[David Ayers]

Looks interesting - are you recommending it? And do I go for the Japanese issue or the Cortical?

This is extremely brutal scream-fest, I am not even sure what to compare it with (imagine Brötzmann and Bailey at their most noisy). I like it a lot. I have DIW edition, and the sound quality is very good.

Hmmmm - thanks David - one there for an idle mouse finger to get to work on...

[Д.Д.]

Looks interesting - are you recommending it? And do I go for the Japanese issue or the Cortical?

This is extremely brutal scream-fest, I am not even sure what to compare it with (imagine Brötzmann and Bailey at their most noisy). I like it a lot. I have DIW edition, and the sound quality is very good.

Hmmmm - thanks David - one there for an idle mouse finger to get to work on...

This one is available relatively cheap ($18) from downtownmusicgallery.com

[.:.impossible]

Well, I didn't go back and pull out Tears today, but I did pull out tint (disc 2 from the Amplify02 set). I mentioned this duo before. Gunter Muller (ipod, minidisc, selected percussion, electronics) and Toshimaru Nakamura (no-input mixing board) improvising very pleasantly for about 50 minutes in Tokyo October 13, 2002.

If this disc is still available as a separate from Jon, I would recommend it wholeheartedly. I can't speak for the entire box, though listening to this disc does make me wish I owned it!

Prior to listening to tint, I decided it was time to unwrap AMM The Inexhaustible Document. I have no idea why I hadn't unwrapped it a year and a half ago when it arrived! This is largely my introduction to AMM, though I have heard them on the radio in Cambridge the night John B and I went to see Rowe. I don't know if it was the daunting cover art or something I'd read elsewhere, but I thought this was going to be a dense and heavy object that I would not be able to lift. On the contrary. I really enjoyed both tracks. I will be seeking out more AMM in this configuration, as well as the duo, trio, etc. I am hooked. Recommedations from Rats welcome!

P.S. For some strange reason, I felt compelled to go back to page 1 and skim through about 46 pages before giving up. I love what this thread has become!

[jon abbey]

tint is awesome, maybe Gunter Muller's best record to date, and that's saying something. I still have a handful of loose ones I'll sell if people are interested.

Prior to listening to tint, I decided it was time to unwrap AMM The Inexhaustible Document. I have no idea why I hadn't unwrapped it a year and a half ago when it arrived! This is largely my introduction to AMM, though I have heard them on the radio in Cambridge the night John B and I went to see Rowe. I don't know if it was the daunting cover art or something I'd read elsewhere, but I thought this was going to be a dense and heavy object that I would not be able to lift. On the contrary. I really enjoyed both tracks. I will be seeking out more AMM in this configuration, as well as the duo, trio, etc. I am hooked. Recommedations from Rats welcome!

there is no other AMM in this configuration (quartet with Rohan de Saram). de Saram was only in the band for a year or two, his overwhelming commitments to the Arditti Quartet forced him to leave after that.

other AMM recs: I have to believe we've been through this before on this thread, but if you search and can't find anything, I'll be happy to do a brief primer from my perspective.

[.:.impossible]

de Saram really is fantastic on this recording. I was hoping there was more with him! I am not familiar with Arditti Quartet (surprise surprise). Maybe this is something I would be interested in.

Prevost, Rowe, Tilbury is what I should have said. Prior to today, I was familiar (slightly in comparison to others here at the Rat) with Rowe and Tilbury, but not Prevost. Needless to say, I am amazed. I think I would like to familiarize myself with this trio before moving back to previous incarnations.

I will try to dig up some info on AMM in the thread.

[John B]

I'd second these AMM suggestions of John's:

Newfoundland

Live in Allentown

Before Driving to the Chapel

AMMusic 1966 is the early, non-Tilbury incarnation, much closer to free noise, I'd say try that or the Crypt later. the second disc of Laminal is a career high point, but it's only sold as part of the 3 CD set.

I'd add Fine and Generative Themes to the three above, that'll give you a nice picture of the band with both Tilbury and Rowe.

I'm also obviously biased, but I'd say Duos for Doris is a stronger record than any AMM release, not sure if you've heard that or not.

up, for .:.impossible.

Also, for some more Gunter Muller recommendations check out this old thread over at IHM. I have yet to be disappointed by a disc of his that I have heard.

The box set is fantastic. Well worth grabbing if you are a fan of this music. Tint is top-notch, but it might not even be my favorite disc of the set. Disc 4 with sets by Otomo Yoshihide / Gunter Muller and Thomas Lehn / Marcus Schmickler is also stellar.

Edited April 19, 2006 by John B

[Д.Д.]

The only AMM I have (so far) is Generative Themes, and this is a Tilbury-Prevost-Rowe version of AMM. Quite fascinating.

Me going through the ErstLive-005 at the moment. I am just approaching the end of disc 1, and so far I do not hear what all the fuss is about. There is much more to come, though.

Is this the only Erstwhile release with liner notes?

And for Günter Müller, my favorite disc with him is duo with Christian Marclay Live Improvisations (for 4 ears) - the most impressive use of samples/turntables I've heard, and a powerful display of a fast creative mind. And a lot of fun as well.

Edited April 19, 2006 by Д.Д.

[.:.impossible]

I realize now that I missed a recent sale that Jon had on his catalog. I really do like the majority of the music I have heard from Erstwhile and think that I would really like the box. I've got a birthday coming up. Maybe I can work something out!

[clifford_thornton]

I know there was some spirited AMM talk on here a month or two ago... that's got to be way back in those pages by now, though!

I'm more familiar with the earlier stuff, but have heard good things about The Inexhaustible Document. Will have to seek it out one of these days when I'm not so student-broke.

[jon abbey]

The only AMM I have (so far) is Generative Themes, and this is a Tilbury-Prevost-Rowe version of AMM. Quite fascinating.

Generative Themes is a very good one also. most AMM discs are by the above trio, or at least the majority of them.

Me going through the ErstLive-005 at the moment. I am just approaching the end of disc 1, and so far I do not hear what all the fuss is about. There is much more to come, though.

Is this the only Erstwhile release with liner notes?

the box set has them also (from 15 or 20 different people? I forget exactly), so both boxes. some of the others have liners on the web, Hands of Caravaggio and Duos for Doris, maybe that's it.

And for Günter Müller, my favorite disc with him is duo with Christian Marclay Live Improvisations (for 4 ears) - the most impressive use of samples/turntables I've heard, and a powerful display of a fast creative mind. And a lot of fun as well.

I saw this duo in NYC right after the record came out, in '94, I think. one of the first two live eai shows I saw, along with AMM around the same time (the third disc of Laminal). very good show, nice record (at the time I loved it), but Gunter's work has gotten so much more sophisticated since then, it's not even comparable.

Edited April 19, 2006 by jon abbey

[Guest Chaney]

Bob Ostertag is offering free downloads of several of his titles:

B o b O s t e r t a g . c o m

Found here: Avant Music News

~~~~~~~~~~

From FMR:

Edited April 23, 2006 by Chaney