Funny Rat

[jon abbey]

tint is awesome, maybe Gunter Muller's best record to date, and that's saying something. I still have a handful of loose ones I'll sell if people are interested.

Prior to listening to tint, I decided it was time to unwrap AMM The Inexhaustible Document. I have no idea why I hadn't unwrapped it a year and a half ago when it arrived! This is largely my introduction to AMM, though I have heard them on the radio in Cambridge the night John B and I went to see Rowe. I don't know if it was the daunting cover art or something I'd read elsewhere, but I thought this was going to be a dense and heavy object that I would not be able to lift. On the contrary. I really enjoyed both tracks. I will be seeking out more AMM in this configuration, as well as the duo, trio, etc. I am hooked. Recommedations from Rats welcome!

there is no other AMM in this configuration (quartet with Rohan de Saram). de Saram was only in the band for a year or two, his overwhelming commitments to the Arditti Quartet forced him to leave after that.

other AMM recs: I have to believe we've been through this before on this thread, but if you search and can't find anything, I'll be happy to do a brief primer from my perspective.

[.:.impossible]

de Saram really is fantastic on this recording. I was hoping there was more with him! I am not familiar with Arditti Quartet (surprise surprise). Maybe this is something I would be interested in.

Prevost, Rowe, Tilbury is what I should have said. Prior to today, I was familiar (slightly in comparison to others here at the Rat) with Rowe and Tilbury, but not Prevost. Needless to say, I am amazed. I think I would like to familiarize myself with this trio before moving back to previous incarnations.

I will try to dig up some info on AMM in the thread.

[John B]

I'd second these AMM suggestions of John's:

Newfoundland

Live in Allentown

Before Driving to the Chapel

AMMusic 1966 is the early, non-Tilbury incarnation, much closer to free noise, I'd say try that or the Crypt later. the second disc of Laminal is a career high point, but it's only sold as part of the 3 CD set.

I'd add Fine and Generative Themes to the three above, that'll give you a nice picture of the band with both Tilbury and Rowe.

I'm also obviously biased, but I'd say Duos for Doris is a stronger record than any AMM release, not sure if you've heard that or not.

up, for .:.impossible.

Also, for some more Gunter Muller recommendations check out this old thread over at IHM. I have yet to be disappointed by a disc of his that I have heard.

The box set is fantastic. Well worth grabbing if you are a fan of this music. Tint is top-notch, but it might not even be my favorite disc of the set. Disc 4 with sets by Otomo Yoshihide / Gunter Muller and Thomas Lehn / Marcus Schmickler is also stellar.

Edited April 19, 2006 by John B

[Д.Д.]

The only AMM I have (so far) is Generative Themes, and this is a Tilbury-Prevost-Rowe version of AMM. Quite fascinating.

Me going through the ErstLive-005 at the moment. I am just approaching the end of disc 1, and so far I do not hear what all the fuss is about. There is much more to come, though.

Is this the only Erstwhile release with liner notes?

And for Günter Müller, my favorite disc with him is duo with Christian Marclay Live Improvisations (for 4 ears) - the most impressive use of samples/turntables I've heard, and a powerful display of a fast creative mind. And a lot of fun as well.

Edited April 19, 2006 by Д.Д.

[.:.impossible]

I realize now that I missed a recent sale that Jon had on his catalog. I really do like the majority of the music I have heard from Erstwhile and think that I would really like the box. I've got a birthday coming up. Maybe I can work something out!

[clifford_thornton]

I know there was some spirited AMM talk on here a month or two ago... that's got to be way back in those pages by now, though!

I'm more familiar with the earlier stuff, but have heard good things about The Inexhaustible Document. Will have to seek it out one of these days when I'm not so student-broke.

[jon abbey]

The only AMM I have (so far) is Generative Themes, and this is a Tilbury-Prevost-Rowe version of AMM. Quite fascinating.

Generative Themes is a very good one also. most AMM discs are by the above trio, or at least the majority of them.

Me going through the ErstLive-005 at the moment. I am just approaching the end of disc 1, and so far I do not hear what all the fuss is about. There is much more to come, though.

Is this the only Erstwhile release with liner notes?

the box set has them also (from 15 or 20 different people? I forget exactly), so both boxes. some of the others have liners on the web, Hands of Caravaggio and Duos for Doris, maybe that's it.

And for Günter Müller, my favorite disc with him is duo with Christian Marclay Live Improvisations (for 4 ears) - the most impressive use of samples/turntables I've heard, and a powerful display of a fast creative mind. And a lot of fun as well.

I saw this duo in NYC right after the record came out, in '94, I think. one of the first two live eai shows I saw, along with AMM around the same time (the third disc of Laminal). very good show, nice record (at the time I loved it), but Gunter's work has gotten so much more sophisticated since then, it's not even comparable.

Edited April 19, 2006 by jon abbey

[Guest Chaney]

Bob Ostertag is offering free downloads of several of his titles:

B o b O s t e r t a g . c o m

Found here: Avant Music News

~~~~~~~~~~

From FMR:

Edited April 23, 2006 by Chaney

[Д.Д.]

From FMR:

[gnhrtg]

Here's my order; I have not heard anything by Amalgam or John Law as a leader (but have been looking for a second-hand or on sale copy of Exploded on Impact), and thought here's a nice opportunity to check out some of Dunmall's output, which, given its size, I can only claim to be vaguely familiar with.

FMRCD123 888 Evan Parker,Phil Wachsmann,Eddie Prevost,Hugh Davis

FMRCD38 THE ONLIEST John Law Trio

FMRCD32 GIANT LEAVES John Law Trio

FMRCD87 IYOU Paul Dunmall, Tony Bianco

FMRCD119 INNOVATION Amalgam

FMRCD141 SHOOTERS HILL Paul Dunmall group

Already paid for the order so it's too late for me to make changes. Still, any thoughts on these discs?

[Guest Chaney]

Bassist Damon Smith posted what follows on a few boards:

New CD: BPALTD202 Domo Arigato Derek-Sensei! Henry Kaiser Solo/Duo/Trio

Henry Kaiser solo, duo and trio with Derek Bailey, Motoharu Yoshizwawa, Kiku Day, Toshinori Kondo, Henry Kuntz, Davey Williams, John Oswald, Sang-Won Park, Mototeru Tagakagi, Greg Goodman, Larry Ochs, Damon Smith, Charles K. Noyes & Andea Centazzo.

Includes a playing/talking book review of Ben Watson's "Derek Bailey and the Story of Free Improvisation"

you can hear an MP3 of the Kaiser/Smith duo here: http://myspace.com/smithdamon

all profits go to INCUS records.

If you would like a copy please send a paypal for $15pp worldwide to damon@balancepointacoustics.com

I wonder if they have all this talking all throughout the disc

Btw, nice man Damon Smith included a bonus CD with with 4 CDs I got form him on e-bay. Haven't listend to any of them yet.

Opinion of Gino Robair:

Spoken Word.

I was warned there was talking on the disc, but I wasn't prepared to be as

into it as I was. Of course it's totally in keeping with Derek's style to

speak while improvising. His audio letters are great, not to mention his

reading of the Henry Kaiser Guitar Player article...

I felt Henry's first interjection was leading down the dark path, but then

hearing Henry Kuntz start talking, reading, discussing, with Kaiser as

Kaiser played, was a treat. Not sure how many times I'll want to listen to

it, but I found it interesting the first and second times to hear Kuntz go

on about his Bailey reflections.

But what sold me was hearing Damon and Henry talk while improvising: it

eventually took their brains out of the playing path and resulted in

atypical playing, at times, on both of their parts. I don't mean that as a

slam to their improvising in general, but it felt like the playing sometimes

changed in a refreshing way as they tried to hold a conversation about the

first time they bought or heard a Bailey recording etc.

Kind of makes me want to hear others carry on a verbal conversation while

improvising a musical one. Maybe that's the next New Thing.

Perhaps an extension of that would be for a younger player to 'interview' a

player from another generation as they both play. Damn that would be

exciting! Trying to keep the music going, and interesting, while keeping the

questions and replies engaging -- whew.

Is this a topic for a new series at the ImprovGarage? Hmmm....

The other part that I like about the Kaiser tribute to Bailey is the

anecdotal aspect. It was interesting to hear the Metalanguage trio

remembering Derek in words ‹ they were responsible for bridging the Bay Area

scene and the English/Continental scenes, at least on record. And great

records they were, too.

It's not a bad idea to begin thinking about doing aural histories with the

first generation improvisers. It should happen before any more of them leave

the planet. (I'm thinking not only of Bailey, but also of John Stevens.)

It¹s so easy for us to take it for granted that great players will always be

around...

Oh...and the music: I like the duo with Noyes and Kaiser quite a bit. What a

wonderful timbral mix. I have more listening to do...

[clifford_thornton]

Nice update of the cover for Incus 2 on that one!

[Guest Chaney]

Check out the video (Download video: Xavier Charles, Robert Piotrowicz - 2006-03-17 Łódź - Take B) at the bottom of THIS page.

Kinda cool.

[.:.impossible]

Well, I didn't go back and pull out Tears today, but I did pull out tint (disc 2 from the Amplify02 set). I mentioned this duo before. Gunter Muller (ipod, minidisc, selected percussion, electronics) and Toshimaru Nakamura (no-input mixing board) improvising very pleasantly for about 50 minutes in Tokyo October 13, 2002.

Yesterday, I decided to pull out Tears Cosmos and listen to it at the house. I really tried to find something that I liked about it. Toward the beginning, there are some very heavy motions that I found to be bold and ballsy. Soon, though, those bold motions are left to recent memory. As the disc continued, I found my self conflicted. I really tried to find somenthing I liked about it, but I truly felt like a fool for listening. The sine waves are almost torturous in contrast to the sounds that Ami Yoshida is making with her lips, mouth, and throat. Most of the sounds she makes are small things many kids learn to do early on and forget about. Chances are you are still capable of making these sounds by closing your throat and pushing from your diaphram. Tiny sounds, squeeks, miniscule screams, screeches, gurgles, etc. I never would have thought to present this as performance though. As the sounds became closer and closer to bodily functions somewhere into the second track, I had to hit stop. Sometimes it sounded like a kid imitating death after being shot by her friend's finger. Those final seconds before laying still on the ground, counting to five, and getting back up to get back into the game. In conjunction with the relentless sine waves, and really not much else, I just can't hear how this can be considered an effective performance.

I would be interested to learn more about the objective of this collaboration though. I personally don't get it.

[jon abbey]

I would be interested to learn more about the objective of this collaboration though. I personally don't get it.

here's a good review, this might help:

http://www.stylusmagazine.com/reviews/cosmos/tears.htm

[.:.impossible]

Thanks Jon. I'll try again another time. What is your take on the recording?

[jon abbey]

What is your take on the recording?

my "take on the recording", honestly, is that it's right up there with the strongest single discs of free improv ever. free improv vocalists are very tough, because everyone has their own connotations with the voice, since we've all got one and we're surrounded by them all day long. Ami transcends all that to my ears, she's quite good at reducing the voice to pure sound. but obviously, for you it didn't/doesn't work, that's cool.

I produced Tears, including selecting, ordering and helping edit the material, so you'd probably be better off with other perspectives than mine, which is why I linked the Panzner review.

[.:.impossible]

What is your take on the recording?

free improv vocalists are very tough, because everyone has their own connotations with the voice, since we've all got one and we're surrounded by them all day long.

That is an interesting observation. To be honest, I am not very familiar with free improv vocals, so I really have nothing to compare Tears to in that regard.

I guess I'm not really looking for a "review" per se. I think a lot of the sounds that you have been involved in recording transcend "review". I'm honestly just looking for gut reaction. The link didn't give me any further insight into the creative process of these two artists. I just kept asking myself "Why am I listening to this?"

Anyway, I'm not trying to harp on this one recording. I am sincerely curious.

[.:.impossible]

I walked into a new store today here in town and grabbed a few things as an early birthday present to myself! Is anyone familiar with Environment for Sextet? I know pretty much nothing about it, and haven't heard much of the Ictus label at all, but it sort of stuck out so I picked it up. It is the Italian CD re-issue from the nineties, though I just read that the catalog is not being reissued again? Any thoughts on this recording, or the label itself?

[Д.Д.]

I walked into a new store today here in town and grabbed a few things as an early birthday present to myself! Is anyone familiar with Environment for Sextet? I know pretty much nothing about it, and haven't heard much of the Ictus label at all, but it sort of stuck out so I picked it up. It is the Italian CD re-issue from the nineties, though I just read that the catalog is not being reissued again? Any thoughts on this recording, or the label itself?

I have it, but have never listened to it. Will check listen to it soon and report here.

[Guest Chaney]

I don't have Environment for Sextet or any other Ictus releases. I do have on order though the Ictus box set, which has been delayed:

April 8, 2006:

We have been advised by the label that the Ictus box has been delayed due to production issues. According to the label, they gave the artist full artistic freedom and he not only went over budget in the packaging, he took longer than expected. The label says that the wait is well worth it as it turned out to be a beautiful set.

I do apologize for the delay as I'm as anxious to get my copy as you are for yours. I'm trying to get some samplers that I can send out to hold everyone over until it is finally released. It is in transit from Europe now. We expect to ship the set out no later than April 30th.

Thanks for your patience.

Best wishes,

Alan Lawrence

The Jazz Loft

[Д.Д.]

I don't have Environment for Sextet or any other Ictus releases. I do have on order though the Ictus box set, which has been delayed:

Tony, I have 4-5 of the older Ictus editions, and my recollection is that it is all quite mediocre stuff, rather badly recorded as well. Edited April 30, 2006 by Д.Д.

[Guest Chaney]

Thanks for the input, David.

I was a bit (read: very) hesitant in ordering this set but after listening to the sound samples, felt it worthwhile. We'll see how it goes. Funny thing is that Jazz Loft already took my money, before the set was even ready to ship. Very odd and not at all appreciated; almost cancelled my order over that bad behavior.

[Д.Д.]

Not yet residents of OOPLand and looking good are the four titles offered by Hi4Head Records.

Got the solo Trevor Watts CD on Hi4Head - "World Sonic", and it is fantastic. Solo alto, very melodic, with a lot of stunnig circular breathing. Reminded me quite a bit of Gebbia's "Arcana major" - also references to folk themes (more Scottish jigs-type, than Sardinian dances - but they are related anyway), but Watts has a different sound, of course - more bluesy, lower and with much wider vibrato.

18 short tracks, each quite different. Sound quality is excellent. Higly recommended.

Together with FMR releases, this is the ugliest digipack packaging I've seen yet.

[gnhrtg]

You make that solo Watts disc sound good, David. Added to the list.