ep1str0phy Posted October 26, 2006 Report Posted October 26, 2006 (edited) (Respectfully disagreeing--Organissimo's avant threads could use a little love, now and again) Not Marion's most involved date--not by any stretch of the imagination--but it's as fine a post-bop duet album as I've heard. Knowing Waldron and Brown (not personally...), this date could have gone in a million other directions... as it is, I think it makes for beautiful, pleasant listening that doesn't lapse into the sort of pandering and faux-pas that a lot of "good natured", "modern" jazz does. In other words, it's a standard bag... but the spirit is still there, IMO. Edited October 26, 2006 by ep1str0phy Quote
Chuck Nessa Posted October 26, 2006 Report Posted October 26, 2006 Sorry for the confusion. I was still talking about La Placenta. Quote
Chuck Nessa Posted October 26, 2006 Report Posted October 26, 2006 BTW, showing the avant garde threads "a little love" should not include praising lousy music. I feel there has been a fair amount of that lately. I do admit that happens with other styles too, BUT............. Quote
ep1str0phy Posted October 26, 2006 Report Posted October 26, 2006 (edited) I think I'll leave it there--for hilarious posterity. Tangent (and random thought)--what's up with the rights to all the JCOA albums? Communications got reissued on ECM, but that was a Mantler-centered date... any reason why we haven't seen the others? Oh, and EDIT about the love thing--not talking about the music, per se (that's the realm of opinion), but rather comportment (that's the realm of diplomacy). I'm with Clifford on the notion that we don't need another Bagatellen thread on here (tho it's a little late...). Edited October 26, 2006 by ep1str0phy Quote
clifford_thornton Posted October 26, 2006 Report Posted October 26, 2006 Agreed. I never said Doyle was Coltrane or Booker Ervin... sheesh! Quote
ep1str0phy Posted October 30, 2006 Report Posted October 30, 2006 (edited) Just got a copy of Willem Breuker Kollektief: Celebrating 25 Years on the Road (a booklet w/a 2CD compilation). Although I'm generally unfamiliar with Breuker's solo material (I enjoy his sideman work with the Globe Unity crowd), I'm a fan of what I've heard. It's nice to hear all this material in a single shot--really drives home the delirium of it all... although there's only so much "evolutionary mobility" with this sort of aesthetic--it's an orgy of cultural convergence, and you can only do so much with a finite set of infinite materials, dig?... As difficult as it is, this material begs to be examined on its own merits--it's not "free improvisation" or "jazz" or even improvisatory music per se--it's a sort of ethos in sound, and it doesn't transcend its materials... This is the sort of music that's as much prefabricated for the used record bins as it is live theatre--and (although something's clearly lost outside of the performance context) I'm not sure it makes too much of a difference how this stuff is packaged, dispersed, played, or replayed. It's just there--not that there's anything wrong with that. That being said--any one of you (I know Clifford has his art history thing together, so I'd be interested in hearing some perspective...) have any thoughts on the group? It's not quite forbidding to the relative newcomer, but the "air" of it all (if not the sound) is pretty daunting all the same. Also--that Saga of the Outlaws cover is mark. Are we any closer to seeing a reissue? Edited October 30, 2006 by ep1str0phy Quote
clifford_thornton Posted October 30, 2006 Report Posted October 30, 2006 Spent very little time with WBK records, though here and there what I've heard has been interesting. My interest in Breuker tends toward the small groups - such as with Leo Cuypers, Gunter Hampel (ca. late '60s), and his phenomenal work in a duo with Han Bennink. The Dutch musical theatre interest stems from not only fluxus (Mengelberg was loosely associated) but Dutch dada/neo-dada tendencies going back to at least de Stijl artists like Theo van Doersburg, who professed the ideal of a merger between art and life. Certainly something that hasn't been extensively talked about w/r/t Dutch jazz; I don't remember Whitehead's book getting into Dutch arts in general, though it has been years since I read it. Quote
John B Posted October 30, 2006 Report Posted October 30, 2006 That being said--any one of you have any thoughts on the group? It's not quite forbidding to the relative newcomer, but the "air" of it all (if not the sound) is pretty daunting all the same. In Holland, on BVHaast, is a fantastic disc and a great place to start exploring the Kollektief. That said, I haven't felt compelled to seek out too many other discs by the WBK. My impression has been that they do what they do very well, but I don't need to own too many discs of them doing it. Quote
ep1str0phy Posted October 31, 2006 Report Posted October 31, 2006 (another tangent) What do you guys think of Han Bennink's sax work? He's not exactly a virtuoso, but it's shocking how proficient he is (and not just in the "shock" and "wail" category--I mean articulation, phrasing, etc.). Quote
Chuck Nessa Posted October 31, 2006 Report Posted October 31, 2006 (edited) The most important thing is "having an idea of 'what to do'" and he should have that. One time (circa 1967) Roscoe, Lester, Joseph, Malachi and (maybe) Phillip Wilson were playing at an informal session at the University of Chicago. Joseph moved to piano (for a short time) and did "all the right things" to add to the texture and move the music along. I'll never forget it. Not really of "importance" overall, but nice to have in the mix. Edited October 31, 2006 by Chuck Nessa Quote
Nate Dorward Posted October 31, 2006 Report Posted October 31, 2006 (another tangent) What do you guys think of Han Bennink's sax work? He's not exactly a virtuoso, but it's shocking how proficient he is (and not just in the "shock" and "wail" category--I mean articulation, phrasing, etc.). Bennink can play just about anything he touches (you heard him play banjo?). Quote
clifford_thornton Posted October 31, 2006 Report Posted October 31, 2006 Agreed and yes, I have... dude can swing branches in the air and it sounds f'in hip! His brother Peter is more of a "strict" reed-player and I enjoy his work as well. Quote
B. Clugston Posted October 31, 2006 Report Posted October 31, 2006 Peter Bennink has been known to pick up the bagpipes as well. Quote
ep1str0phy Posted October 31, 2006 Report Posted October 31, 2006 Myra Melford told me about touring with Bennink... he'd walk around before shows looking for new things to play on; whatever was at hand, he'd incorporate into the performance. As much has been said about Bennink's more jocular side (and other 'multi' guys, as Chuck mentioned Joseph Jarman), there's a lot to be said for musicality. Quote
clifford_thornton Posted October 31, 2006 Report Posted October 31, 2006 Peter Bennink has been known to pick up the bagpipes as well. Yep - I counted that among the reed arsenal, but you're right, it/they could use some specificity! Quote
clifford_thornton Posted October 31, 2006 Report Posted October 31, 2006 Speaking of the brothers Bennink, I've never understood why Kees Hazevoet's Unlawful Noise (KGB, reissued by Atavistic) doesn't get more love. Both Benninks, Brotzmann and Haazz backed by Dyani and Moholo?!? I mean, it is a totally wild session, but it is musical! Quote
ep1str0phy Posted October 31, 2006 Report Posted October 31, 2006 Unlawful Noise never really made it with me, although I love everyone involved and the album never really came across as bad... perhaps I was just hearing too much "first time" Euro free improv at the time, but it felt like a bit of "wash". One thing I can say, though--the brothers Bennink do play wonderfully in this larger ensemble, and it makes me wish for more from Peter. Of course, I've always been impressed by the sheer versatility of all the Blue Notes--Moholo and Dyani are top flight improvisers... makes me wish for some stuff by the hailed, if generally "unheard" Brotzmann/Miller/Moholo trio. Moholo also smokes on Pleasure, which is, IMO, one of the very finest entires in the entire UMS. The transparency of the ensemble really allows the rhythm section to shine through, and their interactions sometimes verge on psychodrama--it's compelling, and very rewarding stuff. Moholo's a groover, no doubt--but he's also among the most receptive, sensitive drummers in more "out" improvisation. What's to say about the later South African improvisers, anyway? I cannot identify too many "name" players among the younger SA improvisers, and far fewer if we take the later Ogun catalogue out of the mix... perhaps there's more to be heard--and lord knows I'd love too--but the press is remarkably sparse. Quote
WD45 Posted October 31, 2006 Report Posted October 31, 2006 No thoughts on Evan Parker's latest release on Tzadik, yet? This record is brilliant! Parker overdubs himself almost entirely on soprano, adding organ on one tune. Quote
clifford_thornton Posted November 1, 2006 Report Posted November 1, 2006 makes me wish for some stuff by the hailed, if generally "unheard" Brotzmann/Miller/Moholo trio. It's a pity that stuff hasn't been reissued. It's really good! Quote
Alexander Hawkins Posted November 1, 2006 Report Posted November 1, 2006 The Miller - Moholo team is almost always awesome...although I often cannot STAND Harry's bass sound. p.s. listening to the reissue of Spirits Rejoice and Bra-Louis Bra-Tebs again last night. Great playing - obviously on the Spirits... session, but the later one also. Jason Yarde is fantastic on it. On the subject of Louis' bands - how about Viva La Black, with Sean Bergin in it? He's an often really interesting player (nice composer/arranger too) IMHO. Quote
WD45 Posted November 1, 2006 Report Posted November 1, 2006 (edited) Just posted two clips from the recent Tony Hymas / Evan Parker duo performance on YouTube: Edited November 1, 2006 by WD45 Quote
Guest the mommy Posted November 2, 2006 Report Posted November 2, 2006 redd, why can't you stand miller's bass sound? so this is random but now that we have had a year-ish to digest, which of these free america discs do you all think are the best. i ask because a bunch have popped up locally and i was thinking of plugging my gaps before they are gone for good. i still haven't heard the waldron/lacy one or the lacy one. i haven't heard the braxton or the shepp or the AEC or emergency ones for a while and don't own any of them right now. i have the burrell, the thornton, the shorter and the rudd ones. think i "need" to get any of the other ones? the presence of noel mcghie makes the lacy-related ones interesting. Quote
B. Clugston Posted November 2, 2006 Report Posted November 2, 2006 redd, why can't you stand miller's bass sound? so this is random but now that we have had a year-ish to digest, which of these free america discs do you all think are the best. i ask because a bunch have popped up locally and i was thinking of plugging my gaps before they are gone for good. i still haven't heard the waldron/lacy one or the lacy one. i haven't heard the braxton or the shepp or the AEC or emergency ones for a while and don't own any of them right now. i have the burrell, the thornton, the shorter and the rudd ones. think i "need" to get any of the other ones? the presence of noel mcghie makes the lacy-related ones interesting. I have half of the Free Americas. The ones I listen to the most are the Thornton and, suprisingly, the Shepp (though I wish they had put a little more distance between Chicago Beau and the mic). Braxton's Donna Lee is a must have; the 2-CD solo is one of his best if you like sax solos. Phase One is fantastic; Certain Blacks is not my cup of tea. The Waldron/Lacy disc didn't appeal to me at first, but I've come to really like it; The Gap is a good one as well. Quote
Guest the mommy Posted November 2, 2006 Report Posted November 2, 2006 oh i forgot about that one. i have the frank wright. i just bought "unity" today, actually. look forward to hearing it. Quote
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