What is the opinion of the members on this board..

[Jazz Groove]

What is the opinion of the members on this board about sharingthegroove.com?

For those that don' know what it is, it is a Napster type, where only live recordings are posted for downloading. They claim that it is completely legal. There's a lot of Miles Davis, JohnColtrane, HErbie Hancock, Shorter, Silver, Jimmy smith, Blakey from the 50's, Pass, Peterson, Mingus, Bird, Wes with Coltrane. All of the files are not stuff that can be bought.

I haven't down loaded anything. I feel the artists aren't getting any royalties. They site claims the artists are okay with it. I don't buy it for a second. A frind of mine did down load stuff. He let me listen to Art Blakey from 57. The sound was great. I could not believe this was a bootleg.

I'm starting to get tempted...

[Jim R]

Wes with Coltrane.

...

[Jazz Groove]

Yes, but I don't recall if the file was sitting out there. I believe the user asked to be PM'ed in order to get it.

[.:.impossible]

I've never heard of sharingthegroove.com. I'll have to check it out. Sounds too good to be true (Wes/Coltrane)!

[Parkertown]

It just seems so friggin' complicated!

[Jazz Groove]

I did sign up and down-loaded the required software. I pulled down a miles davis concert from 1963 and a art blakey show from 1959. Both are real good quality. Just when you de-compress the files, they get very large. Close to 500MB per show.

Now the Blakey concert was from Europe. Not sure if it ever was out on disc of record. The sound quailty and blowing by the musicians are too good for it to have never been released. The dates were 11-23/24-59.

[jazzypaul]

Yes, Wes and Coltrane. Remember, the original John Coltrane group was supposedly supposed to be Wes, McCoy, Lee Morgan, insert your favorite bass player here and Billy Higgins. I guess Wes and Trane played together and Wes couldn't get with it, Lee cost too much and Trane just didn't like the way that him and Billy played together. Lucky for us.

[rachel]

Once you have downloaded the software it really is pretty easy. I'm not a techie by any stretch of the imagination, so if I can do it I'm sure anybody can do it.

[Jim R]

Yes, Wes and Coltrane. Remember, the original John Coltrane group was supposedly supposed to be Wes, McCoy, Lee Morgan, insert your favorite bass player here and Billy Higgins. I guess Wes and Trane played together and Wes couldn't get with it, Lee cost too much and Trane just didn't like the way that him and Billy played together. Lucky for us.

Oh, I'm aware of the stories. I just have yet to see anybody come forth with any evidence of actual tapes existing.

[Jazz Groove]

There are two formats. SHN and one that I have not yet figured out how to decompress.

The link to get the software is www.etree.org. If your running Win 2000 or higher all you will need to decompress the concerts is mkwACT097b1.exe. Older OS wil require other files. And to download all you'll need is Bit Torrent 3.3. This is the link: http:// http//osdn.dl.sourceforge.net/bittorrent/bittorrent-3.3.exe.

Here's the tech note.

Bit Torrent FAQ/Software (V 2.0) - Updated 08NOVEMBER2003

FAQ: thanks jaydub for putting this together for us!

edit: some of this info may be outdated, but still useful..some of the info has been modified to reflect current trends...

Until Jay decides to write a new one, this one will stay up

this post was originally made 20FEB2003...thanks jaydub - Doc

another faq can be found here http://www.dessent.net/btfaq/

---------------------------------------------------------

Here's a very not quick bit torrent explanation. I'm going to include a .shn explanation as well, unless I get tired and lazy. I'm not trying to outdo anyone who's done this before, but I am trying to help people understand things more thoroughly. I've read every FAQ on this that I can find, so if you feel your information has been stolen, it is only because I probably read your FAQ and have interpreted it in my own way. I'll gladly give you credit if you feel credit is due.

An explanation of how I explain thing first. I'll try to put this so that not only will you know how the stuff works, you'll understand why it works that way. I think if you have a bigger knowledge base, you'll be more likely to figure out problems on your own. I'll also try to head things so that you will be more able to find what you need to know at the moment more quickly. Yes, this will be long. Yes also, it will probably be helpful.

The Bit Torrent (BT) Program

First, the software.

Bit Torrent 3.3

This is the official client. However, many people are using experimental versions, such as Shad0w’s, ABC, and others.

Clicking that will start the download of the BT program. If you want BT's webpage:

Bit Torrent download page. But take note, this page has a few thing that you will not need. You do not need Red Hat (in any form), or Mandrake 9.1. Downloading either of those will be superfluous, and probably could mess up your machine. All you need for now is BT. More software needs will be explained as the need arises.

The program file you will have downloaded for BT will look like this: bittorrent-3.3.exe. Double click that to install BT. When you do this, a confirmation box will pop up that says BT has successfully installed. You will not see an icon on your computer for BT. There will not be a program to open. There's not a graphical user interface, in the sense that other programs have one. The only time you will see BT is when you're downloading or uploading something. I believe this is what's called a "frontend."

The .torrent Link.

When you have this installed, you can start downloading shows! It's simple, but very misunderstood. Find a link that ends in ".torrent." There are plenty on Sharing The Groove but you can find others everywhere. Once a link is found, there are a couple of ways to approach downloading. My preference is this: Right click the .torrent link, select "Save Target As..." and save the .torrent link to somewhere on your computer familiar to you. I have a folder set up in My Documents for the very purpose of saving torrent links. Once you've saved the torrent link, you can begin downloading without having to go to the webpage the link came from. This is easier because if you want to restart the download, you can use the link from your computer and not have to go all over the net to find the right one again.

The alternate to this is to simply click the torrent link. Yes, this will start the download. But some people have problems with this because of interference from their temporary internet files (and cache, history, basically everything involved in internet storage). For whatever reason, it helps to clean all your internet files before using this .torrent method. Also, if you don't complete the download in the first try and the website hosting the .torrent you're downloading isn't available, then you have no way to restart the download.

Starting Downloading.

So open the folder on your computer that contains your saved .torrent links. Here's where we'll start the BT program, and soon the download. There are at least two ways to open the .torrent link, too. The preferred method is this: Right click the .torrent file then select "Open With." If you don't see "btdownloadprefetched", click the "choose program" option, and find it there. After the first time you use BT this way, you'll have the option of using "btdownloadprefetched." Select that. Alternatively btdownloadgui is rumored to sometimes be in the place of the other option. If it is, it should work just fine too. This could be a difference in version 3.2.1 (says btdownloadgui) and 3.1 (says btdownloadprefetched). That's just semantics. I’m not sure what 3.3 says (using the experimental version)

The other possibility is to double click the .torrent link. If you've previously associated the .torrent files with notepad (for whatever reason), notepad will probably be the default opening program. So if you just double click the .torrent, then notepad will open and the download will not start. While this method might (and actually probably will) work for you, it's not preferred since there's a possibility the download won't start like you want it to.

First Opening of BT.

When BT opens, it will ask you where to save the files. Select somewhere easy to remember, because there's no point in downloading something and then forgetting where you put it. (Of course a search for .shns will be easy enough to find them...) I usually select as the location the same folder where I saved the .torrent link, because that's where I'm accustomed to looking.

Allocating Files.

When you've successfully started the .torrent link, BT will pop up and it will do a few things. First, it will allocate the space on your computer for the files you're about to download. A blue bar will start from the left and the percent will rise quickly until the files are allocated. This process will be short, probably under a minute. Will the files be on your computer at this point? Well, not really. Yes, you'll see them and they'll have the correct file size. But the way BT works is that it allocates the necessary space to your computer by telling your computer what the files are and in what folders they will be. So you'll see the proper files in their proper place with their proper size, but those are basically shells of the files. You can understand why BT is doing this: If you started a download and you didn't have enough free space on your hard drive for the entire download, you'd be screwing everything up, not only for you, but possibly for everyone else, since they will be downloading from you, too. So BT is basically checking that you have the required space first and downloading later. A good way to picture the process is this. Picture a empty drinking glass. You want to set the glass on a table, but if the table is completely full, then you can't put the glass on the table. If there's room for the glass, you can put the glass down, and then you can fill it with a tasty beverage. The table is your hard drive. If there's room, it will allow an empty glass (the shells of the files you want to download) on the table. And if it allows that, then it will allow you to start filling these shells with the tasty beverage (in this case, music files.)

At this point, you'll be seeing the files on your computer. Trying to play the files, convert the files, check their md5 checksum, basically doing anything at all to or with the files at this point is bad. Leave them alone.

Connecting To Peers.

After files have been allocated, BT will begin "connecting to peers." This process might take 10 seconds to start, or it might take minutes. And if you're patient, and "connecting to peers" stays up, it will not hurt to leave it like that, because eventually, you probably will connect to peers. Ideally, however, you will connect to peers very soon (under a minute, probably), and download will begin.

The Download.

In BT, you will see two numbers. The first will be "Download rate:" and this is the first number that will rise. It might rise slowly, and depending on your connection speed, you might go as high as 250 (I've read reports of 1150), but common numbers might be more like 20 to 40. This number is based on a couple of things. First, on your own connection speed. Secondly, it depends on how many people there are downloading the show at the moment. Since you will be downloading parts from them, the more people, the better it is for you. If you're getting low speeds (1 to 5Kb/s) then it's probably the case that not many people are still connected to the .torrent. This can happen if the .torrent is old (a week is old for a torrent). If you got the .torrent from a message board, you can bring a topic to the top and ask people to reconnect their download. New topics aren't really necessary. If you're one of the lucky select few, don't be surprised of numbers in the hundreds.

The blue bar above will start at zero percent, and since you're downloading, you'll see this percent slowly rise. Take note, however, this is not a fast process. I'll use me for an example and say that a show for me takes about 20 hours. Yes, hours, and yes 20. I'm on a cable modem, so that should give you an idea how long yours might take. If you're told it's going to take a very long time (ie 300 hours), then it's likely that there are no seeds (people with the file completed) who still have their window open. Asking nicely for people to open their windows by posting in the BT thread (with the .torrent link) could help.

If you think your download has taken only minutes, please reread the section labeled Allocating Files. This is not a fast process. It will take a long time to get the show you want.

Just like in the allocating process, do not try to use/convert/check these files while they are downloading. You very well might get some music from some, yes, but you will more than likely also cause errors, causing the whole process to take even longer.

Keep track of your download.

Thanks to Jwolf and r0b, we now have our own tracker. With this you can keep track of your downloads and how many people have download the show.

http://tracker.sharingthegroove.org/track/mystats.php

The Upload.

While you are downloading, even after you've downloaded a very little bit of the file, you wil notice that the "Upload rate:" will rise. An understanding of what BT does is helpful. BT distributes the load on the server of whatever file by allowing users to connect to each other and the server too. So you'll be getting you file from many people, possibly including the server, and you'll also be sharing whatever of the file you have to other people who don't have that part of the file. There's no way to keep from uploading. In fact, it'd be detrimental to squash your upload speed, since BT is designed to scale your download to your upload. The faster you upload, the faster you download!

Reconnecting to complete a file or reshare a file.

If for some reason you cannot complete a file, you can continue it from where you left off. Simply go to the .torrent link you want to restart and open it in the usual way. BT will open and ask where you want to save the file. BT is designed to remember where you saved the file originally, and will automatically go there. If it doesn't just find where you saved the file first and select that, and OK it. BT will start up, and it will check the exesting file. If you've got 50% downloaded already, BT will connect to peers and try to finish the file. If you've already finished the file, and your goal is to reshare the file, then BT will still check the file, but it will recognize the file as completed (100%) and your upload rate will most likely start to rise. The BT window with the blue bar is the window that needs to be open in order to share the file.

If you stop the download at, say 50%, and think you can listen to the first half of the show, you'll be wrong. Remember, don't mess with these files before the download is 100% complete! The way BT works is that it fills in randomly amongst the entire folder. So your 50% will not necessarily (and in fact probably not be) the first 50% of the download.

If you've changed any of the files, you might have a problem resharing. The best way to work with BT files is to leave them in their original folder and not to change the name of anything. If you want to continue sharing while using your download (after it's finished) probably the best thing to do is to copy the files to another location and work with them there.

If you check a file, and it doesn't pass the md5 test (more about that later), then you can delete a single file and reconnect to BT, and that single file will be redownloaded.

Download is complete, now what?

Your BT window says "Downloaded successfully," and your "Download rate:" is nil. Now what? Well, if you are content to stop sharing at this point (ideally when the Upload rate is also zero), you're ready to start using the files.

If you've downloaded .shn files, you'll most likely have folders that contain the .shns and .md5 files, along with one .txt file for a live music show. The .shn files are the actual music files, but they are very compressed (probably compressed about 50% on average). The .txt file is a notepad file that has information the taper or converter felt was important. Often included is the setlist to a show and the taping rig used to tape. The .md5 files are something that you can use to verify that the copy is exactly the same as the original copy that was made from the masters. Some say checking with the .md5 is superfluous, because BT itself has built in a system that makes sure the file's integrity remains. BT continually checks, and if there's an issue with any part, BT will just trash that small part and redownload it. If you have the newest version of BT, you'll probably see that it's doing this because it will say so in red letters below the Upload rate. However, checking with the .md5 is quick and easy, and so why not use it? It is there for a reason, after all. It's a great habit to be in anyway, because other places you might get .shns aren't as reliable as BT, so you'd need to check the files then.

There are basically two ways to go about listening to these shows. I only use one of them, so I can only give a superficial description of the other. It first: If you only want to listen to these files on your computer, you may want to use Winamp. In order to listen to the .shns you'll have to get a plugin for Winamp called SHNamp. Information about that process can be found herem, at etree.

If you want to be able to listen to these shows via a conventional audio system, you'll have to convert and burn them. To convert the files, you'll need the program mkwACT. This link will download mkwACT runtime libraries from etree. This link will download mkwACT .97 beta 1 from etree. A great install tutorial is here, at etree. If you follow etree's instructions, you will have no problems with the install. And since their instruction are so informative, there's no need for me to write help for that. Take note, however, that when you first try the install, a "successful" box will pop up. Do not click that immediately. Wait at least a minute, and if nothing happens, go on. What probably will happen is setup will commence, and the program will be properly installed. Like I mentioned, the etree link has a wonderful tutorial for that.

Like I said, .shn is compressed by possibly half, so using mkwACT to convert the files to .wav (which is what you need) will eat up space on your hard drive fast. A one gigabyte show might take two gigabytes in .wav form. So be prepared for that.

mkwACT, is a simple program to use. You simply select the .shn files (and only the .shn files, not the .md5s or .txts) and drop them into the mkwACT window. By default it will convert the .shn files to .wav files. Note, however, that mkwACT by default is set to delete the source files (the .shns). This is easily changed by selecting "File Options" and unchecking the box that indicates that mkw will delete the source files. If you intend to share your files via BT again (which you probably do), you must have the original files as they were when you downloaded them. If they're deleted by mkw, then when you try to share again, BT will just start downloading the files from 0%. Or if they're deleted by mkwACT (or however), and you reconvert the .wav to .shn, you will most likely not be able to share these files via the original BT link, since these .shns will differ ever-so-slightly from the originals, rendering them useless. It is not recommended to convert from .wav to .shn, because the files will not match the original md5s, and this will pollute the trading pool.

_________________________________

Problems and Answers.

P: BT tells me there's no buffer space available. A: You probably don't have enough free space on your hard drive for the show.

P: mkwACT says there's no magic number. A: This error is most often encountered when the download is not completed. If you try to check the files before the download is complete, expect to get this error.

P: Problem connecting to tracker. (general) A: Restart BT.

P: Problem connecting to tracker. (7, 'getaddrinfo failed'). A. You are not connected to the internet. This might seem random, but if you use the method I directed to download .torrents, the link will be available to you even if you're offline. If you try to connect to it, you'll more than likely get this error.

P: Network is unreachable. A: The torrent you're trying is no longer available, often due to a newer version. Newer versions come out if faults are found with the previous ones. Possibility of firewall issue here, I think.

P: 'error: need responsefile or url run with no args for parameter explanations'. A: You haven't actually selected a .torrent to download.

P: Error involving the command lines "'C:\\Documents and Settings\\Local Settings\\Temporary Internet Files" or the like. A: Seems to be aleviated by saving the .torrent link to your hard drive instead of the temporary internet files.

P: My bit torrent isn't working because it won't play music. A: Bit torrent isn't for playing music. It's only for getting the files. You have to use another program to play the music.

P: Some .shns didn't pass the .md5 verification by mkwACT. A: Delete the specific files that didn't pass, then reopen BT and BT will download the files again. Remember, none of the files will pass before the download is 100% complete.

P: mkwACT opened once on my computer, but after I closed it, it will not reopen. A: I'm the only person I know that this has ever happened to, but what I do is uninstall mkw, restart my computer (yes, that's necessary), then reinstall mkw as described above. I usually only get one opening of mkw and then I have to reinstall.

There are all sorts of firewall/port issues that one may encounter, to which I do not know the answer.

I can't think of anything else offhand that I can offer useful information on. As I think of anything or as questions arise, I'll add it to this file. If this is useful, good. If it raises more questions for you than it answers, then delete this information and start over ...

If there are other questions, I'll do my best to address them, but I'll do it by readdressing it within this file, not as a separate post. I've used 19638 of my 20000 allowed characters, so I can't say too much more ...

__________________

Just Sharing the Groove...

Audio List

[Jazz Groove]

Yes, Wes and Coltrane.  Remember, the original John Coltrane group was supposedly supposed to be Wes, McCoy, Lee Morgan, insert your favorite bass player here and Billy Higgins.  I guess Wes and Trane played together and Wes couldn't get with it, Lee cost too much and Trane just didn't like the way that him and Billy played together.  Lucky for us. 

Oh, I'm aware of the stories. I just have yet to see anybody come forth with any evidence of actual tapes existing.

Same here, I was in one of the chat fourms, and read and old post. Someone claimed to have a recording. Until I have it playing I don't believe it. But I sure would like to believe it's true.

[Jazz Groove]

I'm in the process of down loading a John Patton concert from 1988 in Austria. Can't wait to hear this one. I also did a search on Larry Young and bring back some hits on the search. I still looking for the file though.

[AfricaBrass]

I've been working with .shn files for a long time. I always thought it would be a great way to trade jazz online.

[Jim R]

the Blakey concert was from Europe. Not sure if it ever was out on disc of record. The sound quailty and blowing by the musicians are too good for it to have never been released. The dates were 11-23/24-59.

FWIW, I have a (Japanese) Blakey discography from 1991, which includes the following commercial release:

ART BLAKEY AND THE JAZZ MESSENGERS LIVE IN STOCKHOLM (Dragon / DIW-344)

11-23-59

Lee Morgan, Wayne Shorter, Walter Davis Jr., Jymie Merritt, Art Blakey

Close Your Eyes

Like Someone In Love

Lester Left Town

The Midget

A Night In Tunisia

Of course, sometimes the dates and locations on such live concerts can be shown to be inaccurate as years pass and scholarship increases...

[SGUD missile]

Well ..you wanted opinions on downloading jazz .or downloading period:

As a guy who has a new big band CD out ( and a big prodduction nut to be covered ) AND the composer/arranger of most of the stuff ( therefore having an intellectual property issue as well)

1. I think it is fine for ME to post partial mp3s for promotion and to give potential buyers a taste of what they'll get when they buy the CD ..or hear other types of arranging and scoring work I've done ..this is kosher and it's my choice of what I put out there.

However:

2. If full cuts from my CD were posted for downloading, I'm getting screwed outta money that I need to pay off the CD I've produced ( thus enabling me to consider further recoording), plus my copyright protection is being violated. This IS a crime , although the government hasn't figured out how to enforce it. And us small potatos jazz guys cant afford the raft of attorneys that the RIAA brought to bear on all those Napster dorks who were megaripping Britney and Justin, et al.

You jazz fans have to realize that jazz musicians are NOT rich and do have to foot the bill ( one way or another ) for getting our stuff out there for you to hear. We need to pay bills too ..

And as far as downloading reisues and works of dead artists, you're STILL violating the rights of their estates to legitimate income ( that is , those who weren't screwed outta their copyrights when they recorded their work in the first place by unscrupulous producers... and record companies )

okay ..off my soapbox ..you get my drift

[AfricaBrass]

SGUD missile,

I respect how you feel about this. This is your livelihood.

What I like about some of these download sites is that they only allow you to post and download music by artists who allow it. I mainly get my downloads from furthurnet.org and they won't allow anything that isn't by an artist that approves of downloads. These sites have to respect copyrights our they won't last long.

I'll admit that I do trade some CDr's of out-of-print music, but I always prefer to have the real thing and if/when it becomes available, I buy it.

I've also downloaded mp3s to see if I like the music in the first place. If I like it, I'll buy it. If I don't then I wouldn't have bought it in the first place. I think I've deleted much of what I've downloaded in the past. Since I view mp3 to be inferior to the quality of a CD, I really just use them to get a taste.

[jazzypaul]

SGUD --

what's your take on downloading out of print or impossibly hard to find stuff?

[Chuck Nessa]

the Blakey concert was from Europe. Not sure if it ever was out on disc of record. The sound quailty and blowing by the musicians are too good for it to have never been released. The dates were 11-23/24-59.

FWIW, I have a (Japanese) Blakey discography from 1991, which includes the following commercial release:

ART BLAKEY AND THE JAZZ MESSENGERS LIVE IN STOCKHOLM (Dragon / DIW-344)

11-23-59

Lee Morgan, Wayne Shorter, Walter Davis Jr., Jymie Merritt, Art Blakey

Close Your Eyes

Like Someone In Love

Lester Left Town

The Midget

A Night In Tunisia

Of course, sometimes the dates and locations on such live concerts can be shown to be inaccurate as years pass and scholarship increases...

I have this on Dragon DRCD 182.

[bertrand]

The moral issue of copyright infringement when pertaining to live recordings that are otherwise not available commercially has always intrigued me.

On the one hand, living artists may be deprived of income, but is this really the case when the recording cannot be bought in a store? What's the dollar value on something that is not available commercially?

On the other hand, once the artist has passed on, these recordings become a part of history and in that respect, those who made these initial recordings, no matter how unscrupulous their motives may have been at the time, did us all a favor. If there really is an obscure Larry Young or Wayne Shorter date on this site (especially from the sixties), it is important that I can hear it. I'm trying to make inventories for these composers (and others) of all their known compositions, and if such tapes yield otherwise unknown tunes, it is important for me to know this. I make no money off of this work, but I hope it can be of use to future musicians or scholars.

Now those who go out and sell recordings of live gigs are definitely up to no good.

My two cents...

Bertrand.

Edited December 4, 2003 by bertrand

[Jazzmoose]

Bottom line for me is SGUD's post makes complete sense. I'm leery of bootlegs, I don't do downloads, and won't unless the artist specifically says "Hey, it's okay". And grave robbing appeals to me even less than robbing the living.

That said, I must confess that my hands are not clean; I do have three or four burns of LPs that I haven't been able to locate that others (here and on the BNBB) have been kind enough to supply me. I console my conscience with the honest belief that, if they are ever released, I will most definitely pony up the cash, artist's cut and all, and get legitimate copies.

The older I get, the grayer life seems to be. Either I'm getting more complex and maturing, or I'm selling out one disc at a time. I'll have to let someone else be the judge...

[RDK]

Well said, Bertrand. I couldn't agree with you more.

Another fuzzy issue to me are such things as radio broadcasts of jazz (or any type of music actually) concerts. Is it not okay to tape these and listen to them later? The artist is presumably allowing himself to be, if not recorded, then at least broadcast.

[Dan Gould]

I undersand SgudMissile's points and totally agree with them ... IF the recording in question is an official release with full copyright protection. And if there are people at a live date who record the show in order to put out a bootleg recording, they are also breaking the law.

But I part company when it comes to trading live recordings that have never been issued commercially and are not being traded for cash.

This incurs no cost whatsoever on the performer, whether he is alive or dead. There's no sale involved, and there's no commercial release. Therefore, there is no copyright to violate.

***************

I see people saying that this software is easy to deal with-but what about people with high speed connections and firewalls? Do I want to leave my firewall open so long to download a 500 meg concert? What are the risks involved?

[Jazz Groove]

I see people saying that this software is easy to deal with-but what about people with high speed connections and firewalls?  Do I want to leave my firewall open so long to download a 500 meg concert?  What are the risks involved?

Dan, I am also behind a firewall. I did not need to shut it off to download the concert. The issue with the firewall only comes into play if you want to host a file for others to download.

Edited December 4, 2003 by Jazz Groove

[SGUD missile]

I undersand SgudMissile's points and totally agree with them ... IF the recording in question is an official release with full copyright protection. And if there are people at a live date who record the show in order to put out a bootleg recording, they are also breaking the law.

But I part company when it comes to trading live recordings that have never been issued commercially and are not being traded for cash.

Sorry ..Ididn't mean to come off so holier than thou earlier, because my hands aren't any cleaner than the rest of us .in that musician friends trade CDs all the time of live performances and other materials they may want of mine .. (film scores , etc)

As far as downloading the OOP and live stuff, I guess I have to accept there is a gray area that will exist for a long time ..as long as recording and download thechnology exists ..

[Parkertown]

I see people saying that this software is easy to deal with-but what about people with high speed connections and firewalls?  Do I want to leave my firewall open so long to download a 500 meg concert?  What are the risks involved?

Dan, I am also behind a firewall. I did not need to shut it off to download the concert. The issue with the firewall only comes into play if you want to host a file for others to download.

It seemed to me that was the catch:

You have to host the files for others as well. Wouldn't you have to disable the firewall to do this?