LF: pianists who should be corny but are not.

[Chuck Nessa]

Whatever Mehldau is, I don't get it. I have developed an allergy.

Jelly Roll Morton is corny to many, so the question is unanswerable.

[Neal Pomea]

Jelly Roll Morton is corny to many, so the question is unanswerable.

Fats Waller too, but not to me.

[Larry Kart]

Jelly Roll Morton is corny to many...

I don't understand why would anyone think Morton is corny. Because of the taxi horns on "Sidewalk Blues"?

I know that Ellington said barbed things about Morton's piano playing, but I assume that was in part a response to Morton's braggadocio, in part a judgment based on East Coast Stride standards.

As for Leonard Feather...

[Unk]

Bobby Enriquez should be corny and IMO is (or rather was):

While I don't fully understand the question/concept either, Wild Man Bobby Enriquez came to mind, as did Herman Foster. Milt Buckner too.

[B. Goren.]

Whatever Mehldau is, I don't get it. I have developed an allergy.

You are not alone.

[Free For All]

Nutty AND corny.

[king ubu]

[JSngry]

Bobby Enriquez should be corny and IMO is (or rather was):

http://www.youtube.c...feature=related

That's a lot more fun to watch than it is to just listen to.

[Bol]

Good lord! I had no idea how pedantic some people could be. I think people know what "corny" means, even if we disagree as to what things are corny. Meanings of terms are not the same as extensions of terms. Do people really ask for a definition when someone says something is "corny"? How about "cutesy", "kitchy", "pornography", or even "good"? Our traffic in terms involving evaluations would come to a screeching halt if people are as uncomprehending as some are pretending to be. The other day, I read an interview in which Lee Konitz described Benny Carter's playing on a record as "corny". The interviewer did not stop and say he doesn't understand.

Edited April 15, 2011 by Bol

[king ubu]

The other day, I read an interview in which Lee Konitz described Benny Carter's playing on a record as "corny". The interviewer did not stop and say he doesn't understand.

Nah, but he should have punched Lee in the face for that

[Teasing the Korean]

Cecil Taylor.

[Bright Moments]

anybody download the new mike jones?

[Rooster_Ties]

Well, the ultimate answer to this question is clearly Sun Ra.

Often corny (in the extreme) -- but depending on one's perspective -- the more he is, the more he isn't.

Thinking of his arrangements of standards here, like Alone Together, and such. Probably doesn't apply to his piano playing specifically, as much as the overly sweet horn arrangement and his vocal rendition -- but the principle is the same as the concept described in the OP.

[Larry Kart]

Good lord! I had no idea how pedantic some people could be. I think people know what "corny" means, even if we disagree as to what things are corny. Meanings of terms are not the same as extensions of terms. Do people really ask for a definition when someone says something is "corny"?...

We know what the common meaning of "corny" is. It was the qualifications you supplied in your initial post -- "pianists who pour forth emotions" ... Bill Evans and Bill Charlap" -- that led to confusion/lack of comprehension.

For one thing, it's not the pouring forth of emotions per se that makes for corniness (of one common sort, though certainly not the only sort) but emotions that are felt to be applied in a cheesy, mechanical, un-genuine manner. Or to put it another way, "prefabricated sentiment."

If you had just said something like "I'm looking for pianists who are often thought to be corny but in your opinion are not," there probably would have been no problem.

[.:.impossible]

Big fan of corny pornography. Especially the kitsch, good stuff.

[Jim R]

Good lord! I had no idea how pedantic some people could be. I think people know what "corny" means, even if we disagree as to what things are corny. Meanings of terms are not the same as extensions of terms. Do people really ask for a definition when someone says something is "corny"? How about "cutesy", "kitchy", "pornography", or even "good"? Our traffic in terms involving evaluations would come to a screeching halt if people are as uncomprehending as some are pretending to be.

"Good lord" indeed. First you make assumptions that everybody thinks the way you do, then you make assumptions that everybody is being pedantic and pretending to not understand you? Like Larry said, we know what corny means. The suggestion that Bill Evans or Bill Charlap "should be corny" because they "pour forth emotions" is not only puzzling to me, but a little offensive.

[Jim R]

If you had just said something like "I'm looking for pianists who are often thought to be corny but in your opinion are not," there probably would have been no problem.

I think we'd have to have a list of pianists who are "often thought to be corny" (which is a subjective and problematic idea, if we're talking about serious jazz pianists). The next step from there (the "in your opinion are not" part) would make it all the more subjective and difficult. Maybe it's just me, but I'd say this topic was doomed from the get-go.

[JSngry]

...pianists who pour forth emotions, and hence should be corny...

I just don't get how "pour(ing) forth emotions" should be corny. I just don't get it, unless "passion" intrinsically = "corny", & the worlds I've visited where that is the case are worlds from which I've gotten the hell out of ASAP, if not sooner. Everywhere else, there's a range of possibilities that result from passion, and corny is only one of them.

[fasstrack]

There was a little-known guy named Tony Zano, from Long Island, I think. He died at least 10 years ago. He was restrained emotionally somewhat, but not at all cold. And his ideas were really well-considered. Somewhat in a Bill Evans school and maybe a smidgeon of Tristano, but it would be unfair to leave it at that b/c he had a lot of depth. A completely forgotten player, as was Oscar Denard---who played really differently, more like Phineas Newborn, but like Zano is almost comepletely forgotten.

On the other end of the (emotional) spectrum I worked from 1984-5 with Jaki Byard (in the big band though I sat in with his trio a few times). Jaki was very humorous in his playing plus somewhat of a put-on in his conversation so his real thoughts were sometimes veiled. So when he sometimes veered into the corny, dramatic, or overwrought, you never knew if it was for real or a deady satire. I thought the latter myself. Sometimes he would play these sort of rococo or Romantic passages---he was an encyclopedia of so much music---and I would ask the same question, if he was putting us on. He definitely had a wacky sense of humor. A very complex, multi-layered player and person---and brilliant.

[fasstrack]

"prefabricated sentiment."

You nailed that one, Larry. I think I'll steal that. It's almost as bad as pre-fab improvising. Hard to be restrained but communicative of emotion, just as it's harder not to 'bang'---but worth it every time.

[Justin V]

anybody download the new mike jones?

I did, but I thought that he sounded too much like Oscar Peterson. I see on his website where he has been compared to Peterson, but he sounds so heavily influenced by Peterson that I found myself wanting to listen Peterson instead.

[Ted O'Reilly]

by the way Mike Jones is permitting a free download ofhis new cd here:

http://www.jonesjazz.com/store.html

I enjoy all of his cd's!

Yeah, Mike Jones! A terrific, and under-recognized great jazz pianist... You like Dave McKenna? You'll appreciate Mike Jones.