sickening penn state football allegations

[Tim McG]

GoodSpeak is out of his friggin' mind.

Saved for posterity.

When you become a legal authorized/required reporter of child abuse then you can talk to me, Chuck. Until then, well....

I think, and stop me if I alrerady said this, once the fact is separated from the frenzy, it will be enough to exonerate Paterno.

And again, the "what if'ers" of the world will never be satisfied.

[Chuck Nessa]

Happy to see this exchange at the top of a new page.

[Blue Train]

Would anyone want their kid/grandchild, or even their worst enemies kid/grandchild having to depend on anyone (especially anyone who is somehow allowed to teach children and thus legally required to do so.) who thinks 48 hours to a week after being informed of a kid being fondled/sodomized, or anything sexual happened between a minor and adult?

Edited June 27, 2012 by Blue Train

[Larry Kart]

exonerate 1: to relieve of a responsibility, obligation

I think you need to chose a word other than "exonerate," one that means something like (should there be such a word) "I think he did a lot of good overall, in my view, but he probably didn't do all that he could have done in this grave situation."

Pending further investigation, the dimensions of "probably didn't do all that he could have done" remain to be seen, but I don't see how Paterno can be relieved of responsibility or obligation here, which is what exonerate means.

[Tim McG]

exonerate 1: to relieve of a responsibility, obligation

I think you need to chose a word other than "exonerate," one that means something like (should there be such a word) "I think he did a lot of good overall, in my view, but he probably didn't do all that he could have done in this grave situation."

Pending further investigation, the dimensions of "probably didn't do all that he could have done" remain to be seen, but I don't see how Paterno can be relieved of responsibility or obligation here, which is what exonerate means.

No doubt.

But anyone who has had to report on child abuse [and the above posters obviously have not] will always say the very same thing: I wish I could have done more to stop it.

Fact is, Sandusky was abusing kids long before the shower incident and no matter how much we want an immediate end to this shit, it will continue until the authorities step in and stop it. One day, 48 hours, a weekend is but a drop of water in the comprehensive OCEAN of trauma perpetrated upon a child at the hands of a serial predator. That is the reality of it all, Larry. And no matter how many times certain posters wish to berate me or impugn my character and profession, the simple fact of the matter is catching then prosecuting these bastards takes time. Of course the child[ren] will suffer. Nobody wants that. But these people are consummate liars. Even his own defense team wanted us to believe that all these victims were lying and because they wanted money. Anyone who thinks this is an easy slam dunk of a thing to do has no idea what it takes. I, however, do. And blaming Paterno for decades of abuse by Sandusky is sheer foolishness. Sandusky could have and should have been stopped by authorities years before, but they chose to ignore it...and the children suffered because of it. Still not Paterno's fault.

Again, if this was an easy thing to do, there would be no child abuse. And people here can get on me all they want, but that will not change the facts in the matter.

Edited June 27, 2012 by GoodSpeak

[Dan Gould]

Most to blame for Sandusky's abuse post-2001:

McQueery. He failed to inject himself into the situation he says he witnessed, to stop a crime as it occurred. That assuredly kept the police from finding the victim and stopping Sandusky then.

But contra Goodie, second most to blame is Paterno, who was informed of what McQueery witnessed but did nothing to make sure it was investigated, and this came after Paterno assuredly knew about the prior investigation of Sandusky showering with young boys.

I'm not at the front of the "blame Paterno" bandwagon, but Goodie's exoneration of him (and I think that is the right word) is misplaced.

Edited June 27, 2012 by Dan Gould

[Tim McG]

Most to blame for Sandusky's abuse post-2001:

McQueery. He failed to inject himself into the situation he says he witnessed, to stop a crime as it occurred. That assuredly kept the police from finding the victim and stopping Sandusky then.

But contra Goodie, second most to blame is Paterno, who was informed of what McQueery witnessed but did nothing to make sure it was investigated, and this came after Paterno assuredly knew about the prior investigation of Sandusky showering with young boys.

I'm not at the front of the "blame Paterno" bandwagon, but Goodie's exoneration of him (and I think that is the right word) is misplaced.

Fair enough, Dan.

My point, however, goes to who is the perpetrator of the abuse and who had the legal authority to stop it.

McCleary was an eye witness, but did not inform the Child Protective Services. That is his job. The authorities, those above him and Paterno, did nothing about the accusation. Sandusky was the abuser. Not Paterno. The people charged with stopping him did nothing either then or years before [and that is where the most children were hurt, not because of one shower incident].

Again, to foist blame on Paterno is to misunderstand how the system works and how to gain a conviction.

Edited June 27, 2012 by GoodSpeak

[Aggie87]

Blame CERTAINLY deserves to be foisted upon Paterno (and numerous others).

He knew prior to the McQueary incident about Sandusky's issues, and continued to allow him around the PSU football facilities with young children. Surely he knew things weren't right for those children.

Then when McQueary tells him he witnessed something improper, it was Paternor's responsibility RIGHT THEN to report it. Not wait for days.

He enabled Sandusky, from the time Sandusky was forced to retire through and including the McQueary incident. End of story.

Nobody is agreeing with your viewpoint, Goodspeak. At all. I hope you're quicker to report things when you find out about them than McQueary and Paterno were. For the victim's sakes.

Edited June 27, 2012 by Aggie87

[Blue Train]

I hope you're quicker to report things when you find out about them than McQueary and Paterno were. For the victim's sakes.

One day, 48 hours, a weekend is but a drop of water in the comprehensive OCEAN of trauma perpetrated upon a child at the hands of a serial predator. *

* Does anyone but the Apologist think reporting as soon as humanly possible wouldn't help to lead to catching any Pedophile quicker and thus prevent future victims?

I ask again....WTF? does anyone think happens to the Apologist if he did the exact same thing as "Saint" Paterno in 2002?

Edited June 27, 2012 by Blue Train

[robertoart]

Sandusky currently on suicide watch. Probably won't do it. Then again Peter Roebuck jumped to his death. But that was during his actual impending arrest, and was possibly a combination of opportunity (being in a top floor room with a balcony) and what he knew was to follow. Rather than self awareness.

[RDK]

I'm not sure that means all that much. It's been reported that most if not all inmates in such situations are routinely placed on suicide watch as a matter of procedure.

[Blue Train]

Especially in a high profile case like this one.

[Tim McG]

Blame CERTAINLY deserves to be foisted upon Paterno (and numerous others).

He knew prior to the McQueary incident about Sandusky's issues, and continued to allow him around the PSU football facilities with young children. Surely he knew things weren't right for those children.

Then when McQueary tells him he witnessed something improper, it was Paternor's responsibility RIGHT THEN to report it. Not wait for days.

He enabled Sandusky, from the time Sandusky was forced to retire through and including the McQueary incident. End of story.

Nobody is agreeing with your viewpoint, Goodspeak. At all. I hope you're quicker to report things when you find out about them than McQueary and Paterno were. For the victim's sakes.

Nobody? Well, I seriously doubt that, Aggie.

Look man, you want to believe Paterno was the reason Sandusky abused all those kids and for 15 years [or more], then that is your constitutional right. I, however, will wait until all the trials and all the facts have been tried in a court of law before deciding guilt.

Fact is, the authorities charged with stopping Sandusky and long before the shower incident, did nothing. Then after the shower incident they did nothing. I dunno. Which carries more weight?

Personally? I think the facts will speak for themselves.

Edited June 28, 2012 by GoodSpeak

[Blue Train]

The fact is "Saint" Paterno did not do a single thing for 2 days to a week and then went Pontius Pilate after he finally did the least possibly legal.

The most powerful person at Penn St. did not give a damn enough to even pick up the phone....because he did not want to ruin anyone’s weekend. I am sure all the victims afterwards appreciate his consideration for the adults not being sexually assaulted.

If the most powerful person at Penn St. didn't give a damn for 2 days to a week....why would his "alleged" superiors (the same people he through out of his house for even bringing up retiring.) take it seriously....especially when he never once followed up?

The average Pedophile abuses 150-200 children (keep in mind that is based on only about 14% are actually reported.) before they’re finally caught. Sandusky had access to hundreds of thousands of kids over the just the 34-years The Second Mile was around. They averaged 100,000 a year for several years.

Many of those abused grow up to become abusers themselves. Most end up with mental health issues and/or needing years of treatment. Some others commit suicide.

Just think of the math involved in the circle of just one of the average Pedophile!

Yeah, WTF? is 48 hours, a week, a month, whatever? Why even have laws requiring adults who have certain positions to report anything?

No one knows what would have happened if "Saint" Paterno cared more about the kids than adults enjoying their weekend....because "Saint" Paterno didn’t give a f**k enough to pick up the phone as soon as he was told about a kid being fondled/sodomized/whatever by an adult....and he definitely didn't give a f**k to follow up in anyway....especially after he saw Sandusky still with full access.

Edited June 28, 2012 by Blue Train

[Tim McG]

Again, the "what ifer's" will never be satisfied.

[Blue Train]

Again, the "what ifer's" will never be satisfied.

You can't this up for whatever bizarre reason if you wanted.

I hope you're quicker to report things when you find out about them than McQueary and Paterno were. For the victim's sakes.

Edited June 28, 2012 by Blue Train

[Aggie87]

Look man, you want to believe Paterno was the reason Sandusky abused all those kids and for 15 years [or more], then that is your constitutional right.

I'm not sure how you got that conclusion out of anything I said, or anybody else.

By not doing more, and not doing anything very quickly at all, he enabled Sandusky. He also effectively enabled him by allowing him continued access to the PSU facilities with little boys when he KNEW Sandusky had been fired for likely abusing little boys.

I hope you'd agree as a Debate Coach (or whatever you claimed to be in the past) that enabling somebody and being the reason somebody does something are two different things.

[Tim McG]

Look man, you want to believe Paterno was the reason Sandusky abused all those kids and for 15 years [or more], then that is your constitutional right.

I'm not sure how you got that conclusion out of anything I said, or anybody else.

By not doing more, and not doing anything very quickly at all, he enabled Sandusky. He also effectively enabled him by allowing him continued access to the PSU facilities with little boys when he KNEW Sandusky had been fired for likely abusing little boys.

I hope you'd agree as a Debate Coach (or whatever you claimed to be in the past) that enabling somebody and being the reason somebody does something are two different things.

Again, it is your constitutional right to be enabled to believe what you want to believe.

I prefer fact over unfounded and media inspired hysteria.

After those Penn State authorities go to trial, I think you will find the truth will out.

Edited June 28, 2012 by GoodSpeak

[Blue Train]

Once again....at some point you might understand this.

The fact is "Saint" Paterno gave a sworn testimony it might have been up to a week (I was just giving him the benefit of the doubt because of his age it was 48 hours.) before he bothered to tell anyone. The fact according to "Saint" Paterno is that the reason he gave (once again in a sworn testimony.) is because "Saint" Paterno didn't want to ruin anyone's weekend.

The only thing any criminal/civil case after this point will lead (one way or another.) to finding out....is if he was involved in the cover-up from 1999 on.

I hope you're quicker to report things when you find out about them than McQueary and Paterno were. For the victim's sakes.

Edited June 28, 2012 by Blue Train

[JETman]

Look man, you want to believe Paterno was the reason Sandusky abused all those kids and for 15 years [or more], then that is your constitutional right.

I'm not sure how you got that conclusion out of anything I said, or anybody else.

By not doing more, and not doing anything very quickly at all, he enabled Sandusky. He also effectively enabled him by allowing him continued access to the PSU facilities with little boys when he KNEW Sandusky had been fired for likely abusing little boys.

I hope you'd agree as a Debate Coach (or whatever you claimed to be in the past) that enabling somebody and being the reason somebody does something are two different things.

Again, it is your constitutional right to be enabled to believe what you want to believe.

I prefer fact over unfounded and media inspired hysteria.

After those Penn State authorities go to trial, I think you will find the truth will out.

Many of you guys are extremely thick-headed about this. You're all about keeping the circle waaaaay too small. The real issue here goes beyond this extremely sad case of pedophilia. Paterno's sins (as I mentioned on like page 1 of this thread) extend beyond this case. The NCAA and the emphasis placed on college sports programs in this country is the real culprit. Paterno was just another boneheaded enabler. Sports under the guise of academia continues to turn out bad people behaving badly, and nobody gives a shit.

An additional travesty is that these athletes are paid for their god-given talents (they attend universities for FREE plus perks), and people like me will have to cough up $40,000 per year minimum to send their children with god-given INTELLIGENCE to these same schools. Will someone please stop the insanity???

Edited June 28, 2012 by JETman

[robertoart]

Look man, you want to believe Paterno was the reason Sandusky abused all those kids and for 15 years [or more], then that is your constitutional right.

I'm not sure how you got that conclusion out of anything I said, or anybody else.

By not doing more, and not doing anything very quickly at all, he enabled Sandusky. He also effectively enabled him by allowing him continued access to the PSU facilities with little boys when he KNEW Sandusky had been fired for likely abusing little boys.

I hope you'd agree as a Debate Coach (or whatever you claimed to be in the past) that enabling somebody and being the reason somebody does something are two different things.

Again, it is your constitutional right to be enabled to believe what you want to believe.

I prefer fact over unfounded and media inspired hysteria.

After those Penn State authorities go to trial, I think you will find the truth will out.

Many of you guys are extremely thick-headed about this. You're all about keeping the circle waaaaay too small. The real issue here goes beyond this extremely sad case of pedophilia. Paterno's sins (as I mentioned on like page 1 of this thread) extend beyond this case. The NCAA and the emphasis placed on college sports programs in this country is the real culprit. Paterno was just another boneheaded enabler. Sports under the guise of academia continues to turn out bad people behaving badly, and nobody gives a shit.

An additional travesty is that these athletes are paid for their god-given talents (they attend universities for FREE plus perks), and people like me will have to cough up $40,000 per year minimum to send their children with god-given INTELLIGENCE to these same schools. Will someone please stop the insanity???

Are there no scholarship pathways for academically focused children? Or are the numbers weighted in favour of the sports minded? Perhaps the academically minded kids are better supported in the earlier years of education at the elite schools - so those that might show ability at poorer schools don't get through. Whereas kids with sports based abilities are often singled out earlier based on the physical attributes they 'god-given' possess, because they can be mentored and trained, and make money and prestige for more people. It is somewhat like that in Australia because we are a sport-centric nation. Our elite sports people hold the highest public imagination and focus here in ways that movie stars and entertainment celebrities do elsewhere. If you think this is bad in the States you aint seen nothin till you've seen it here. And yes - most of our potentially elite sports people are siloed off into the best and most expensive schools, followed by State sponsored academies (literally sports universities). No potential stone is left unturned in the search and patronage of 'elite sportspeople'. I would think 'pound for pound' we would make the US pale in comparison. Although pedophilia has not been an outcome of this (like it exists in our Religious domains). the mentality of 'sportspeople' is regularly shown to be lamentable at best. Though it will probably get better in the future hopefully.

Edited June 28, 2012 by freelancer

[jazzbo]

Well "Captain Hate," I can't say that I really disagree with many of your points, but Good Speak has as much right to post his opinions here as you do. Calls to have him banned because you don't agree with his viewpoint . .. not something i can support, not something I think moderators will support.

[jazzbo]

I don't agree with your assessment of him, and the animosity behind it is thinly veiled. There's room here for everyone if civility and respect are kept in play. I've been reading GS for years and have enjoyed many of his contributions. You've made 29 posts in 4.5 years, and I have less to evaluate, and what happened on that other board (haven't been there in years, and wasn't a very pleasant place then) is less my concern.

Anyway, you're both free to post, but if you're just going to post complaints about another member, I'll skip them.

[Son-of-a-Weizen]

("interacting with a mentally ill pile of shit like Goodspeak.")

Yo Captain!

Like him or not, any more personal attacks on Goodspeak and you'll be in solitary confinement for a spell. Okay?

[Dan Gould]

If anyone deserves a banishment its Mr. Hate who comes here to shit on members and the board itself. We'll handle Goodie, Mr. Hate should go back from whence he came.