J.A.W. Posted April 24, 2013 Report Share Posted April 24, 2013 There is a new 24-bit/192kHz FLAC remaster by Bernie Grundman available on HD Tracks which has too much (imo) high end and exposes tape hiss. I find it hard to listen to on headphones. The McMaster isn't perfect either.Well, if it exposes tape hiss Grundman didn't use heavy noise reduction during mastering, which is a positive point in my book. On the other hand boosting the highs generally isn't.Haven't heard that FLAC remaster, so I can't comment. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
etherbored Posted April 24, 2013 Report Share Posted April 24, 2013 (edited) TOCJ 8676 may be a better solution for you... by the way, does the hd tracks issue also bring attendant clarity and texture to the instrumentation on the date? Edited April 24, 2013 by etherbored Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
erwbol Posted April 24, 2013 Report Share Posted April 24, 2013 I'm not qualified to judge if the highs have been boosted on the HD Tracks release. Perhaps I'm just too used to a truncated high end and it just needs some getting used to. The problem with TOCJ 8676 is that it's out of print and expensive (and can't be sampled illegally as a bit-torrent download). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
etherbored Posted April 24, 2013 Report Share Posted April 24, 2013 what's it going for from amazon.jp resellers? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
erwbol Posted April 25, 2013 Report Share Posted April 25, 2013 ¥5800 new. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Daniel A Posted April 25, 2013 Author Report Share Posted April 25, 2013 I own the TOCJ-8676 release as well as the American CD reissue from the 90s. I've also got the original LP and a later Japanese LP reissue. Why the obsession? It's simply one of my favourite albums ever and I was searching for the best sounding version. From what I can recall nothing beats the original LP. I'll get back with a fresh opinion when I've had time to check the different versions again, probably this weekend. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sidewinder Posted April 25, 2013 Report Share Posted April 25, 2013 (edited) Never heard the Japanese CD of 'Total Eclipse' but of all the copies of this I have (Liberty blue/white LP, UA blue label LP, French Pathe Marconi 80s LP, 90s reissue CD) the Liberty blue/white LP is the best by quite a long way. Seems to be quite a bit of high-end roll off and low sound/noise on the tapes though. Edited April 25, 2013 by sidewinder Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
erwbol Posted April 25, 2013 Report Share Posted April 25, 2013 Listening to the HD Tracks release and it is better than I remembered (certainly better than the FLAC rip of the McMaster on my computer). It must be my aversion to official downloads and collector's need for a physical object. Last month I ordered the McMaster after finding a not too ridiculously priced copy on eBay. Unfortunately that CD was lost in the mail. Listening to the Grundman remaster now, I realize I should never have ordered the McMaster in the first place. There's only a little tape hiss at the end of some tracks. Never comment on the sound quality of a release before listening again prior to posting. I am still curious about how TOCJ-8676 compares to the other releases, though. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
J.A.W. Posted April 25, 2013 Report Share Posted April 25, 2013 (edited) The original CD reissue of Total Eclipse was released in 1989, not the 1990s. It was remixed by Malcolm Addey, but there are no mastering credits. There's no mention of Ron McMaster; he's explicitly mentioned on other Blue Note CD reissues from those years, so he might not have been involved in this one. Edited April 25, 2013 by J.A.W. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
J.A.W. Posted April 25, 2013 Report Share Posted April 25, 2013 And as Daniel A just pointed out to me by pm it's by Malcolm AddeyBut it doesn't say that he mastered it, only that he remixed it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Daniel A Posted April 25, 2013 Author Report Share Posted April 25, 2013 Not sure if it matters or not, but as Total Eclipse wasn't recorded at Van Gelder's studio it might be a multitrack recording and as a consequence it couldn't be transferred to digital using the same equipment as was used for other "classic" BN CD reissues. FWIW - and any muddiness aside - I think the sound as captured in the studio suits the session. It doesn't sound like a BN recording, but is none the worse for that. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
king ubu Posted April 25, 2013 Report Share Posted April 25, 2013 Not sure what you guys are talking of here, but "Total Eclipse" is a fine album and ought to be heard in some form. I was overjoyed to be able to pick up a copy of the McMaster a few years ago, at a decent price - and frankly with my lo-fi ears, I've never thought much about its sound. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
J.A.W. Posted April 25, 2013 Report Share Posted April 25, 2013 Not sure what you guys are talking of here, but "Total Eclipse" is a fine album and ought to be heard in some form. I was overjoyed to be able to pick up a copy of the McMaster a few years ago, at a decent price - and frankly with my lo-fi ears, I've never thought much about its sound. Which McMaster are you referring to? McMaster is not credited on the 1989 CD reissue, Malcolm Addey is. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Head Man Posted April 25, 2013 Report Share Posted April 25, 2013 I have both the original CD release and the TOCJ and to my ears there is a significant difference in the way they sound. The TOCJ is louder and brighter than the original and the instruments are more clearly defined. However I think I still prefer the original and do play that version the most. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Daniel A Posted April 25, 2013 Author Report Share Posted April 25, 2013 (edited) I own the TOCJ-8676 release as well as the American CD reissue from the 90s. I've also got the original LP and a later Japanese LP reissue. Why the obsession? It's simply one of my favourite albums ever and I was searching for the best sounding version. From what I can recall nothing beats the original LP. I'll get back with a fresh opinion when I've had time to check the different versions again, probably this weekend. It was even worse than I remembered: I've got both Toshiba and King LP pressings in addition to the US Liberty release. Anyway, the Malcom Addey remix is better than I remembered and I clearly prefer it to the TOCJ-8676 which I find too loud and compressed. The mix and soundstage of Addey's remix is somewhat different from the original LP, but I can't say I prefer any of them over the other. I believe this was first reissued on CD in the "Collector's choice" series. Some (all?) titles were reprinted a few years later and my copy of the US CD version actually has "(p) © 1995" on it. It's the same 1988 Malcolm Addey remix though. Edited April 25, 2013 by Daniel A Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
etherbored Posted April 25, 2013 Report Share Posted April 25, 2013 its initial issue on disc was several years before the collector's choice series. at the time, the booklets came with a thin lamination and have held up well. i think because it's such a great session and represents the best of the 4200 series is the reason we all want to hear the best possible version of it that we can, in an obsession-free way of course. there's a lot of color and texture to the date. on the other hand, for some reason it strikes me as odd that every issue of 'san francisco' i've heard is pretty nice. oh, and hopefully head man and erwbol can work out something on that tocj issue... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
erwbol Posted April 25, 2013 Report Share Posted April 25, 2013 (edited) oh, and hopefully head man and erwbol can work out something on that tocj issue... If you are refering to the CD I bought that was lost in the mail, I got a refund from the seller. It wasn't Head Man, though, but someone else from the UK. On the HD Tracks Grundman remaster, volume levels are a tad higher than the original Blue Note CD, but I do not think it suffers from compression. It is more like the other audiophile releases of sixties Blue Note (XRCD24, SACD, etc.) in character. The mix is also different from the Malcolm Addey CD, so perhaps more like the LPs? I think I'll just buy a spindle of CD-Rs (it's been a while) and burn a copy of the Grundman reduced to 16 bit with Audacity. Edited April 25, 2013 by erwbol Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
etherbored Posted April 25, 2013 Report Share Posted April 25, 2013 i'm referring to the copy that head man says that he doesn't listen to very much... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Head Man Posted April 25, 2013 Report Share Posted April 25, 2013 Excuse my ignorance but are the Grundman HD tracks for "Total Eclipse" available for download somewhere? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
etherbored Posted April 25, 2013 Report Share Posted April 25, 2013 https://www.hdtracks.com/index.php?file=catalogdetail&valbum_code=HD5099992840454 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
erwbol Posted April 25, 2013 Report Share Posted April 25, 2013 (edited) But you can only buy them if you're a US resident. A new sort of DVD region coding tailored to exclude all foreign elements from interesting releases. Edited April 25, 2013 by erwbol Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
etherbored Posted April 25, 2013 Report Share Posted April 25, 2013 no doubt the deal hd struck with the devil to obtain the rights. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Head Man Posted April 25, 2013 Report Share Posted April 25, 2013 https://www.hdtracks.com/index.php?file=catalogdetail&valbum_code=HD5099992840454 Thanks for that, etherbored. erwbol, can you let us know what the CD-R you burn from the "Total Eclipse" HD tracks sounds like please. If it's better than the Michael Addey CD then I might treat myself. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
erwbol Posted April 25, 2013 Report Share Posted April 25, 2013 https://www.hdtracks.com/index.php?file=catalogdetail&valbum_code=HD5099992840454 Thanks for that, etherbored. erwbol, can you let us know what the CD-R you burn from the "Total Eclipse" HD tracks sounds like please. If it's better than the Michael Addey CD then I might treat myself. When I connect my Sennheiser HD650 headphones to my iMac the 16-bit files sound practically the same as the original 24-bit/192kHz files, so previous remarks still apply. I will burn both the Addey rip and the Grundman 16-bit reduced files to CD-RW and compare on my modest system, but I'm no audiophile. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
J.A.W. Posted April 25, 2013 Report Share Posted April 25, 2013 (edited) https://www.hdtracks.com/index.php?file=catalogdetail&valbum_code=HD5099992840454Michael AddeyMalcolm's son?Just kidding Edited April 25, 2013 by J.A.W. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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