Sailor Vernon

[The Magnificent Goldberg]

Back in the late 70s and early 80s, I used to get records from a guy called Sailor Vernon (real name Paul; I think he was Mike Vernon's brother), who put out a blues/R&B/gospel list several times a year in a little mag called 'Sailor's delight'. There were 78s, 45s and LPs, used and new, for auction and at set prices (which he used to call a 'set sail') arranged by genre (so you could find what you wanted) and different price bands for the set sails.

In addition, he'd have little articles in the mag; well researched. And sometimes there'd be interviews. One I was very interested in was with Dr Demento (Barrett Hansen) who was recalling his days working for Art Rupe at Specialty, running his LP reissue programme. (Apparently Rupe was a moderator of the UCLA music degree course and picked up Hansen through his main paper, which was a history of R&B with a pretentious title so it would get through the academic hierarchy.)

Another was with a Jamaican guy, whose name I forget, who worked for one of the big sound systems in the fifties, and was talking about the way things were done behind the scenes. The origin of 'Blue Beat' was, according to this guy, that record labels would be pasted over with a piece of paper, so people wouldn't know what records were being played, labelled 'Blues Beat # whatever. That gave rise to Melodisc's Blue Beat label, on which some of the earliest Ska records were released in Britain (we had a pile of them on the juke box in the cafe my friends and I used to frequent).

I lost touch with him decades ago.

Anyone know anything about him?

MG

[JSngry]

one of the big sound systems in the fifties,

Does this mean DJs? Serious question, as I've learned about how GB had a whole culture of club DJs going back to post-WWII from reading this informative book:

Not sure if we ever had anything quite like this in the US until maybe the 1960s.

[J.A.W.]

MG, why not do an internet search? I found this, this and this - and there's more.

Edited October 13, 2012 by J.A.W.

[The Magnificent Goldberg]

The sound systems were DJs in Jamaica in the fifties and sixties. They'd go around the streets with a truck and play records in whatever public space they could find. The scratch & Hip hop DJs of Brooklyn were their lineal descendents. A number of the main movers in the early Hip Hop scene had experience of the Jamaica scene.

I don't recall a DJ 'scene' over here back in those days. There were DJs, who played for parties and private dances and so on, but it wasn't a scene. I used to do that Tuesday nights at Ealing Common Lawn Tennis Club (admission 1/6d)

MG

[BillF]

Google led me to this:

http://www.amazon.co.uk/Last-Swill-Testament-Hilarious-Unexpurgated/dp/0954706846

Edit: Oops! Hans on to it already!

Edited October 13, 2012 by BillF

[The Magnificent Goldberg]

MG, why not do an internet search? I found this and this - and there's more.

Wow! I never thought! Just reading about Mole Jazz and thought about him, so I wrote it.

Thanks. I think I'll get that book.

MG

[JSngry]

I don't recall a DJ 'scene' over here back in those days. There were DJs, who played for parties and private dances and so on, but it wasn't a scene. I used to do that Tuesday nights at Ealing Common Lawn Tennis Club (admission 1/6d)

That book I cited interviews Jimmy Savile, who talks about starting playing records for a chain of dance halls called Mecca and how it grew from just him in one hall (the Mecca Locarno) to 52 halls and 400 DJs across the country. He makes it sound like he started around the late-40s/early-50s and kept building all through the 1950s, into the 1960s. The next guy the book goes to is Ian Samwell...the name "Mecca" comes up again, as does the Lyceum & 1962.

I know nothing about this, so these guys could be totally bullshitting for all I know. It seemed interesting to me, though, that, from this telling, the "beginnings" of DJs/dance clubs were in actual established dance halls that had been hiring live bands.

Should I toss the book for being a bunch of lies or should I keep reading?

[rostasi]

Jimmy Savile has been in the news lately - and not for good reasons.

Ask our British friends. (BTW: he died last year about this time).

[Big Beat Steve]

The sound systems were DJs in Jamaica in the fifties and sixties. They'd go around the streets with a truck and play records in whatever public space they could find. The scratch & Hip hop DJs of Brooklyn were their lineal descendents. A number of the main movers in the early Hip Hop scene had experience of the Jamaica scene.

Recommended listening (and liner note reading):

http://www.fantasticvoyagemusic.com/jamaica-selects-jump-blues-strictly-for-you/

http://www.fantasticvoyagemusic.com/jumping-the-shuffle-blues-jamaican-sound-system-classics-19461960/

Intriguing ...

I know nothing about this, so these guys could be totally bullshitting for all I know. It seemed interesting to me, though, that, from this telling, the "beginnings" of DJs/dance clubs were in actual established dance halls that had been hiring live bands.

Should I toss the book for being a bunch of lies or should I keep reading?

I have only second-hand (third hand, rather) knowledge/hearsay of this but I do remember reading statements of "witnesses of the era" who conform the existence of a DJ subculture in 50s Britain.

[J.A.W.]

Jimmy Savile has been in the news lately - and not for good reasons.

Ask our British friends. (BTW: he died last year about this time).

Britain's Jerry Sandusky?

The Independent: Jimmy Savile scandal

Edited October 13, 2012 by J.A.W.

[cih]

Duke Vin was a veteran of the Jamaican DJ scene who set up the UK's first sound system in '55 (according to David Katz' 'Solid Foundation - An Oral History of Reggae')

[JSngry]

Duke Vin was a veteran of the Jamaican DJ scene who set up the UK's first sound system in '55 (according to David Katz' 'Solid Foundation - An Oral History of Reggae')

"sound system" meaning a mobile system, right?

[cih]

Duke Vin was a veteran of the Jamaican DJ scene who set up the UK's first sound system in '55 (according to David Katz' 'Solid Foundation - An Oral History of Reggae')

"sound system" meaning a mobile system, right?

Yes - in the UK Duke Vin would travel from London to Manchester or Birmingham (or wherever), and people would follow his 'Sound' - and this would have been before they were playing Jamaican-produced records so it was US r&b

In mid-fifties Jamaica the sound systems had overtaken the live jazz bands that were big beforehand, and they played US imports. And there was huge rivalry between system operators, hence the blank labels mentioned earlier. When rock and roll took over in the US, Jamaicans started making their own records as they favoured the older r&b.. and this home-grown stuff developed into ska etc etc.

Interestingly, Duke Vin referred to himself as a 'disc jockey' (who plays records) and not a 'deejay' (who talks/toasts over them)

the sound systems started small but became huge, playing bass frequencies at 30,000 watts (this figure means nothing to me, I just read it in Steve Barrow's excellent 'Rough Guide to Reggae )

Edited October 14, 2012 by cih

[Big Beat Steve]

Interestingly, Duke Vin referred to himself as a 'disc jockey' (who plays records) and not a 'deejay' (who talks/toasts over them)

An interesting but somewhat redundant distinction IMO. After all, "Dee jay" (DJ) was/is just an abbreviation of "Disk Jockey", and if you check out U.S. music papers from the 40s and early 50s you will find that they used these two terms synonymously (except that of course DJs at that time were radio-based and not (yet) club-based). Or to put it another way, a disk jockey was colloquially referred to as a "deejay". In each case you spin records but not necessarily talk OVER them. It depended on how you set up your show or what personal gimmicks you used.

Interestingly, things have come full circle in more recent years when it comes to talking over records. On the British rock'n'roll (the REAL r'n'r)/rockabilly/jump blues club scene where DJs are all over the place and "name" DJs are major attractions there have been and still are some (major names) among the DJs who have made it a special gimmick of theirs to talk over a lot of their records when they spin their records in the clubs. Seems to be commonly accepted in the UK that DJs do quite a bit of talking not only in between tracks but also over the tracks (at least with these name DJs) but in the Continent most in the crowd find this very, very annoying. Pull the crows to the dancefloor by the way you sequence your tracks to create an atmosphere and keep up the pace but CUT OUT THAT BLURB!

[rostasi]

There's a difference between talking over music

and chanting over "riddims" in Jamaican music.

Back in the early 80's, when I mentioned to a club owner

that I was a "DJ", he hired me to spin at his Chicago reggae club.

I found out when I arrived that I was expected to toast

over the riddims - not just spin rare tracks. Chanting over music

has been popular in Jamaica with sound systems going back to the 60's

and has been part of African music tradition too (tho it wasn't,

of course, called "toasting" back then).

[cih]

[sidewinder]

Jimmy Savile has been in the news lately - and not for good reasons.

Ask our British friends. (BTW: he died last year about this time).

Britain's Jerry Sandusky?

The Independent: Jimmy Savile scandal

Although he was always sort of odd/eccentric - and there had always been the odd rumour flying around - those of us of a certain age are still pretty damned speechless with what is coming out on this story. Massive.

Edited October 14, 2012 by sidewinder

[The Magnificent Goldberg]

I don't recall a DJ 'scene' over here back in those days. There were DJs, who played for parties and private dances and so on, but it wasn't a scene. I used to do that Tuesday nights at Ealing Common Lawn Tennis Club (admission 1/6d)

That book I cited interviews Jimmy Savile, who talks about starting playing records for a chain of dance halls called Mecca and how it grew from just him in one hall (the Mecca Locarno) to 52 halls and 400 DJs across the country. He makes it sound like he started around the late-40s/early-50s and kept building all through the 1950s, into the 1960s. The next guy the book goes to is Ian Samwell...the name "Mecca" comes up again, as does the Lyceum & 1962.

I know nothing about this, so these guys could be totally bullshitting for all I know. It seemed interesting to me, though, that, from this telling, the "beginnings" of DJs/dance clubs were in actual established dance halls that had been hiring live bands.

Should I toss the book for being a bunch of lies or should I keep reading?

I don't know about this at all. My stepfather was manager of the Odeon in Bradford, then the Majestic, in Leeds - Top Rank cimema/ballroom/restaurants - then the Tower Ballroom in Leeds, an indie. This was in the period from about '55 to '58. I know they both had bands; I used to go to them sometimes during the daytime and play about with the drum kits or the electric piano in the Tower. There were music stands and seats for the band on the stage; no room to move; no room for a DJ that I can remember.

But the Top Rank circuit was the great rival of the Mecca circuit and what happened in one didn't necessarily happen in the other.

MG

[robertoart]

After Gary Glitter last week, Freddie Starr has been taken in for questioning in the Savillle and others investigation. Bad stuff. What is Freddie Starr famous for? Is he a comedian?

[The Magnificent Goldberg]

After Gary Glitter last week, Freddie Starr has been taken in for questioning in the Savillle and others investigation. Bad stuff. What is Freddie Starr famous for? Is he a comedian?

Crap singer, crap comedian.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Freddie_Starr

MG

[Big Beat Steve]

After Gary Glitter last week, Freddie Starr has been taken in for questioning in the Savillle and others investigation. Bad stuff. What is Freddie Starr famous for? Is he a comedian?

Crap singer, crap comedian.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Freddie_Starr

MG

I prefer to remember him as the singer of Merseybeat group Freddie Starr & The Midnighters. Nice for what that group was as part of that particular music scene (most everything that runs under "Merseybeat" has cult status among diehard collectors), nice for fans of the music but irrelevant to others who are musically and/or geographically unconcerned (a bit like mid-60s US Garage Punk or early 60s French "ye-ye" was/is irrelevant to those who are NOT fans/collectors of that particular genre).

As for his later doings ... phew ...

[robertoart]

After Gary Glitter last week, Freddie Starr has been taken in for questioning in the Savillle and others investigation. Bad stuff. What is Freddie Starr famous for? Is he a comedian?

Crap singer, crap comedian.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Freddie_Starr

MG

I prefer to remember him as the singer of Merseybeat group Freddie Starr & The Midnighters. Nice for what that group was as part of that particular music scene (most everything that runs under "Merseybeat" has cult status among diehard collectors), nice for fans of the music but irrelevant to others who are musically and/or geographically unconcerned (a bit like mid-60s US Garage Punk or early 60s French "ye-ye" was/is irrelevant to those who are NOT fans/collectors of that particular genre).

As for his later doings ... phew ...

I see. The Merseyside/Liverpool scene. These are the fans/collectors who argue if Pete Best was a better drummer than Ringo. On the Hoffman forums there was a guy doing a Masters course on the Merseyside history. He was claiming it was common knowledge that Pete Best was the best drummer in Liverpool. I think it was the old guys of Freddie Starr's generation who were the experts/guest lecturers for these courses. I've read some interviews with King Size Taylor who also claims to be the expert in these matters.

There was a recent book exploring the influence of the Calypso community on the young Beatles, but nobody seemed to be interested in that. I s'pose it doesn't make money for the old geezers club.

Edited November 2, 2012 by freelancer

[robertoart]

After Gary Glitter last week, Freddie Starr has been taken in for questioning in the Savillle and others investigation. Bad stuff. What is Freddie Starr famous for? Is he a comedian?

Crap singer, crap comedian.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Freddie_Starr

MG

And an even worse leg spin bowler.