David Ayers Posted November 7, 2013 Report Share Posted November 7, 2013 Time was the dedicated supported the bricks-and-mortar against online cd orders. These days the dedicated support the specialist online CD retailer against the amazons, or CD itself against downloads. There are even those who support downloads against streaming. Personally I support stores (or direct purchase at venues) and spend more there than online, and support streaming against download (which I now almost never do). I've been considering a move to 100% real world for my purchases. Not sure yet. Where do you guys stand on all this? (Old topic, just having a conversation...) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
paul secor Posted November 7, 2013 Report Share Posted November 7, 2013 I'd gladly support stores if there were any in my area. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
A Lark Ascending Posted November 7, 2013 Report Share Posted November 7, 2013 Move to Worksop and try to hold true to that 100% physical stores approach. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Leeway Posted November 7, 2013 Report Share Posted November 7, 2013 I still prefer the physical object, i.e. LPs and CDs. I get those from the few used stores in my area, or directly from the artist at shows, or online purchases. Stores selling new music and books have virtually disappeared here, so that is no longer a viable option. At some point, I may have to move to a streaming service, for various reasons. Downloads just don't appeal to me. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jlhoots Posted November 7, 2013 Report Share Posted November 7, 2013 No stores here - I do buy some from Squidco (which is a store I believe) online. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
xybert Posted November 7, 2013 Report Share Posted November 7, 2013 There are still brick and mortar stores that i can go to in my city. There are a few issues that i have. For some reason in New Zealand they unseal the CD cases and keep the actual CDs in paper envelopes in cabinets behind the counter. The exposed CD case and booklet sits on the shelf and gets handled by multiple customers, you take the empty case to the counter and they then locate the CD and put it in the case for you. The CD is in a dusty cabinet and by the time you buy it it's been handled at least twice. If it's been there for a few years it might have been handled a few times when customers wanted to have a listen or someone may have even bought it, taken it home and then returned it. So my issue is that you are paying at new prices for a CD that is less than new, sometimes worse than a good condition second hand. When a Borders store got opened here it was a revelation, as they kept the CDs sealed. When i discovered you could order online and get sealed CDs, bada bing bada boom. Borders is gone but there is an Aussie chain store that has opened here in recent years called JB-Hi Fi that also keeps the CDs sealed, however they don't stock new releases outside of ECM and the occasional random gem. I could get them to order in stuff for me, but i still hold a grudge from back in the day when if you wanted to get something ordered in you were paying at least double and would have to wait like two months. It seems silly when i can just order it myself and get it straight to my mail box. I have reflected on the fact that i've spent thousands on CDs over the years that a local brick and mortar could've gotten a cut from, but at this stage i'm satisfied that the money is going to people that benefit from it and hopefully keep the ball rolling. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
T.D. Posted November 7, 2013 Report Share Posted November 7, 2013 There are a couple of brick-and-mortar stores, with surprisingly good jazz selections, about 60 miles from me (and a block from each other!). I try to visit when in town, and occasionally purchase. Unfortunately, one of the two has an unpleasant habit of offering used CDs with scratches! For classical recordings, the Internet is my only feasible source. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
A Lark Ascending Posted November 7, 2013 Report Share Posted November 7, 2013 (edited) I don't really understand this 'support your local brick and mortar' idea. Yes, if you have a local you've used for years and know well then I can see why you might want to help them out. But beyond that I think all you are doing is helping to keep an increasingly outdated means of distribution on life-support. If you prefer physical CDs or vinyl, fine. Personal preference. But despite all the 'vinyl is back' headlines I can't see the vinyl/physical CD option being much more than a preference for those who grew up with it and like to stick with it and a 'boutique' option for the younger buyer who wants to be seen as different from the crowd. The one place I do see CDs doing a roaring trade is at concerts - lots of people like a memento there and then. But given what I see young people doing with their mobiles I'm pretty sure that approach only has a limited life span. I've heard of concerts where you can pick up a CD-R of the performance an hour later. Why bother with that when it could be streamed or downloaded while you drive or catch the bus home? I'm sure shirts made on hand looms were very nice things; and you can still buy hand made clothing. But the power loom swept most before it (there are some very nice folk songs about what a terrible thing this was). Edited November 7, 2013 by A Lark Ascending Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mjzee Posted November 7, 2013 Report Share Posted November 7, 2013 I feel sad because there are lots of people working in those stores, and they are losing their jobs. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sidewinder Posted November 8, 2013 Report Share Posted November 8, 2013 Move to Worksop and try to hold true to that 100% physical stores approach. Don't you have Eric Rose's Music Inn nearby? (not that they would necessarily have the stuff you play). Glad to say that in Bath/Bristol and thereabouts there are still specialist stores stocking jazz out there. Long may it remain the case ! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
David Ayers Posted November 8, 2013 Author Report Share Posted November 8, 2013 Well *part* of my thing about CDs is they are designed to be in stores and there is a crazy logic about internet mail order where you have to wait and wait. So part of me thinks either buy it in store and go home with it or just stream it WHEN YOU WANT IT. So it is about ergonomics and also ecology - the carbon footprint of home deliveries is much higher than store deliveries. In other words if I am going to buy CDs maybe I want the store or gig experience, otherwise i just want the instant gratification. This is all easy for me to say as i have a pile of stuff here and no need really to buy very much more.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
erwbol Posted November 8, 2013 Report Share Posted November 8, 2013 Remember when brick & mortars used to remove the CDs from their cases and store them in paper sleeves behind the counter? It was always a lottery at Concerto in Amsterdam whether your CD came with some outrageous scratches from improper storage and store playback. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
David Ayers Posted November 8, 2013 Author Report Share Posted November 8, 2013 Oh I used to hate how they took them out and filed them! BTW I'm not advocating supporting stores, exactly, I'm saying receiving CDs by mail gets on my wick. Probably internet ordering makes me spend more than I would even though per unit it is maybe 30% cheaper. There's a serendipity in stores I like too. But I guess I have no real collecting I do any more so for me it is more about fun. I'd never shop in stores for books, which are work, and which in any case I just want to access and mostly don't care to own (storage of slowly rotting wood-pulp issue...). And this is why I like streaming - minimal logistics. Unlike you guys I have stores local to me, great stores in central London, and I visit places too with great stores. And some with just NOTHING. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
erwbol Posted November 8, 2013 Report Share Posted November 8, 2013 The waiting used to bother me, but the trick is to have a constant stream of CDs arriving at your doorstep. Place a new order at least once every week. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
David Ayers Posted November 8, 2013 Author Report Share Posted November 8, 2013 Well you are right on the stream of CDs thing but when I do that I over-order and stuff arrives after I have lost interest (I'm very flighty apparently) especially pre-orders which are a bane. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Leeway Posted November 8, 2013 Report Share Posted November 8, 2013 "mostly don't care to own (storage of slowly rotting wood-pulp issue...)." Oh man, I LOVE rotting wood pulp reading units i.e., books! Checking out bookstores has been a lifelong habit, and my book storage situation is even more dire than my record and CD storage. I particularly like used and rare stores, but any bookshop in a pinch will do. I still much prefer reading a hard copy book than reading on a Kindle or similar device. I can see the value of a Kindle if one were on a long trip and needed to pack a bunch of titles compactly. But a couple of paperback Dickens would also fit the bill for me in such a situation. And you know, books do furnish a room, Kindles not so much, Back to music: if one is looking for free, avant, experimental and that sort of thing, I don't see any way but to shop at Internet places like Squidco or DMG. Do streaming services provide extensive coverage of this type of music? From what I have seen (mostly Rhapsody, haven't checked Spotify), it seems very hit or miss and not that extensive. If that situation changed, I might be more inclined to use a streaming service. What I don't need is a streaming service AND CDs and LPs. Just another cost center as they like to say in the corporate world. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
A Lark Ascending Posted November 8, 2013 Report Share Posted November 8, 2013 (edited) Move to Worksop and try to hold true to that 100% physical stores approach. Don't you have Eric Rose's Music Inn nearby? (not that they would necessarily have the stuff you play). Is it still going? It used to have a big shop a mile out from Nottingham city centre; then moved to an arcade in the centre. I'd assumed it had folded. It was always a hit and miss place. Its heart was in Stan Kenton but it used to get batches of interesting stuff in (I bought a lot of those French Fantasy two-fers there in the late 70s/early 80s. Was never strong on post Swing/West Coast/Hard Bop music. Anyway, I'd have to drive 30 miles to get there. Back in the days of well stocked record shops I'd do that gladly. Once or twice a year now and not for CDs. With me: I need a good quality recording but I've not got the ears for the 'best possible sound'. I like receiving the product as rapidly as possible. I'm not interested in the packaging. Used to delight in it but eventually realised I only paid attention to it when I bought it. I do like to have a physical copy to play in the CD player, stacked on a shelf with a simple cover. So downloads transferred to CD-R work for me. This year I've popped into record stores in Nottingham, Sheffield, Lincoln, Oxford, London, Exeter and Truro. In every case I've lost interest very quickly which I wouldn't have believed 15 years ago - think it has more to do with the complete lack of surprise in what I'm looking at. I've probably been spoiled by the internet experience of finding nearly everything I've searched for. I do share the impatience with waiting for physical CDs to arrive. I only buy them if there is no download option or if I'm concerned there might be gapless problems (tend to go for opera on CD). We might look at this time as a golden age in future given the variety of formats we have to choose from. Edited November 8, 2013 by A Lark Ascending Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tom 1960 Posted November 8, 2013 Report Share Posted November 8, 2013 There are a couple of brick-and-mortar stores, with surprisingly good jazz selections, about 60 miles from me (and a block from each other!). I try to visit when in town, and occasionally purchase. Unfortunately, one of the two has an unpleasant habit of offering used CDs with scratches! For classical recordings, the Internet is my only feasible source. Sounds like Rhino Records and Jack's Rhythm's? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
xybert Posted November 8, 2013 Report Share Posted November 8, 2013 Remember when brick & mortars used to remove the CDs from their cases and store them in paper sleeves behind the counter? It was always a lottery at Concerto in Amsterdam whether your CD came with some outrageous scratches from improper storage and store playback. Ah, i thought that was just a thing over here. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BillF Posted November 8, 2013 Report Share Posted November 8, 2013 Here's my recent personal history of music purchase, arranged according to date and source: CD last bought from bricks and mortar store: 2 years ago CD last bought as download: 7 months ago CD last bought from musician at gig: 6 months ago CD last bought from online supplier: 1 month ago CD last listened to via paid-for streaming: listening now I'd be interested to know how this compares with others' experience. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
A Lark Ascending Posted November 8, 2013 Report Share Posted November 8, 2013 I think you are the future, Bill. I can't quite wrench myself away from ownership. Capitalism still has my soul. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
erwbol Posted November 8, 2013 Report Share Posted November 8, 2013 Remember when brick & mortars used to remove the CDs from their cases and store them in paper sleeves behind the counter? It was always a lottery at Concerto in Amsterdam whether your CD came with some outrageous scratches from improper storage and store playback. Ah, i thought that was just a thing over here. Oh no, it's only been a couple of years since Concerto had detectors installed at all entrances so the discs can remain in their cases. The Jazz Center in The Hague used to put the booklets in little plastic maps and put these in the bins to save space. Less damaging to the discs at least. They were pretty unique in that way. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BillF Posted November 8, 2013 Report Share Posted November 8, 2013 I think you are the future, Bill. I can't quite wrench myself away from ownership. Capitalism still has my soul. I think capitalism has mine as well! As a "streamer", I pay my cash and get to own nothing! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
erwbol Posted November 8, 2013 Report Share Posted November 8, 2013 I think you are the future, Bill. I can't quite wrench myself away from ownership. Capitalism still has my soul. I think capitalism has mine as well! As a "streamer", I pay my cash and get to own nothing! Nor do the musicians get payed. It's a fat cat scheme! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jlhoots Posted November 8, 2013 Report Share Posted November 8, 2013 Not a "store", but I think Jazz Loft is going out of business. Probably because of some of the reasons mentioned above. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
_forumlogo.png.a607ef20a6e0c299ab2aa6443aa1f32e.png)
Recommended Posts
Join the conversation
You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.