Oliver Nelson on Prestige

[mikeweil]

On 5.6.2016 at 1:12 AM, Larry Kart said:

Got that on your recommendation and love it.

Same here.

[Larry Kart]

On June 6, 2016 at 5:17 PM, JSngry said:

Got a very delightful surprise today with Frank Wess' The Long Road, a 2-on-1 Prestige offering that combines 1962's Southern Comfort (the Nelson-associated date) with 1963's Yo Ho! etc... that nifty quintet date with Thad & Roy Haynes that for years showed up with a Status sticker on it but lord only knows what kind of label inside. It was an easy enough record to bypass if your were kind of a deadset "modernist" in the 70s, you know, Thad, 1963, Wess, Buddy Catlett, Gildo Mahones, easy enough to think, oh, another "Basie-ites On Vacation" dah-ditdah-DAH date, and, you would be soooo wrong a bout that (as I found out ca. 17979, when my purchase elicited laughs for the funny album title and the sticker, "what kind of shady-grady back-alley gangsterass record is THIS?!?!?!" they all laughed until I sat down to play it...and then, oh yeah, hey fuckers, Roy Haynes, ok? Turns out to be a damn good record, with some BOV to it, but not nearly that much, and ignore it at your peril, everybody came to play, especially Roy Haynes, and, you know, be ready when Roy Haynes comes to play, the band was, you should be too. Badass tunes, no fucking around tempos, Roy Haynes insisting on full engagement by all, yeah, grownman straight ahead jazz, if it was that easy, every jazz record would be this good, and they aren't, so, there you go.

Ok, known quantity with tracks 8-13, but 1-7, all new to me. I had read descriptions that it was a "breezy Latin affair" or words to that effect, so I was expecting pleasant all around, including Oliver's charts, but not too much more, and lo AND behold, this shit is HOT. Mostly Wess, with some Al Aarons (who I always found a little generic, but here it's like, oh, he sounds like the guy on all those 60s Basie records, and then....DUH, right?), a small horn section (Aarons Nelson on tenor & George Barrow on bari, + Wess when called upon, no trombone, and that's a totally different color, especially when Aarons has the lead and it's three saxes underneath), arrangements are, per Nelson's comments in the liners (dig it how Oliver always seemed to be available for liner note input, that's a career strategy for sure!), "functional" because Wess don't like a lot of fuss  behind him when he plays. But without fuss a lot of color and subtlety comes forth. These are the kind of arrangements that sound so easy to write, and, ok, any one section of any one chart, sure, but put them together, write a whole album's worth of charts like this and avoid sounding monochromatic and repetitive, good luck on that project, cash that check when you get it.

Plus, these guys are TIGHT, 3 or 4 horns still needs to play like a section, or at least needs to if you want it to sound like a section and not just everybody playing parts at the same(ish) time. That's cool if you got a blowing session or the like, but when you got charts that actually vary in voicings, colors, and dynamics, no matter how "simple" they are, it needs to be a section. And look, Oliver Nelson, Al Aarons, George Barrow, and Frank Wess (when called upon), you got guys who know how to play section. And in Oliver Nelson, you got a guy who knows how to write for any instrumentation to maximize the sound, so...beautifully functionally great charts, the shit POPS. It's not accidental, it's skills. Hell yeah.

And speaking of maximizing sound...either there is an uncredited second percussionist here or else Osie Johnson was one of the unsung heroes of playing drum kit like he was inside a Latin percussion ensemble and not just playing along with it. I listened as closely as I could to see if there were any giveaways as to what it was, and really, I think it's Osie himself, and if so, this is a record that should be studied by all kit drummers, because lord have mercy, you put most of them together with a conguero, and one (or both) of them is gonna end up forcing their feel on the other, and that does not happen here. Whoever got that to happen is some kind of mystery genius who is owed more thanks than we have time to say right now.

On top of all that, Wess plays his ass off on this session, his tenor getting aggressively nasty on more than a few occasions, his flute, always lovely, especially so. The compositions are all groove-friendly organic, never sounding "adapted", and oh by the way, the last cut was written by Oliver as a feature for George Duvivier and Wess, I guess, didn't mind, because there it is, and damn is it a swell one.

Amply available at prices only a fool could refuse, this ought to be in the Recommendations forum, but let's put it here, because it fits and it's not too crowded in here by now, so you guys get ALL the best available prices.

This:

Here:

http://www.amazon.com/Long-Road-Frank-Wess/dp/B00004YLK4

Carpe Diem, y'all!

Just carpe'd that one from Amazon.

[JSngry]

Enjoy!

Tell me what you hear re:Osie, please.

[Chuck Nessa]

I concur with all Jim says about the session, BUT think he missed the name Ray Barretto.

[JSngry]

No, I hear Baretto, but also hear what sounds like a third layer of percussion at many times.  I've tried to hear a spot where that third layer happens when both of Osie's limbs are accounted for but have yet to find one. 

I suppose headphone and stereopanning detectives are in order, but no time for that right now, alas.

[Chuck Nessa]

ok

[mikeweil]

Will give it a listen on headphones this evening.

[mikeweil]

Just had a chance to listen to the opener, Southern Comfort, and there is indeed a second percussionist. Osie Johnson on the right channel plays a drumset with cymbals, Ray Baretto's congas are on the left, along with a cowbell that turns out to be part of a timbale set during the drum exchanges. No idea who it could be, though. Willie Rodriguez would be a likely candidate, as he had a similar basic, no nonsense style on bongos too, which are heard later. Not Willie Bobo, definitely. 

BTW it's not the only occasion where Prestige forgot to credit a percussionist. The Pony Poindexter Gumbo session has an uncredited conga player, to mention just one more example.

[JSngry]

Thanks for doing the digging. It might be on more than the opening cut...kinda seems like it is....

[mikeweil]

Yes, you can hear congas plus timbales or congas plus bongos or timbales plus bongos besides the drum set. Very nice how Osie Johnson always chooses tom patterns staying out of the way of the percussionists (something I rarely encountered with local drummers) - he knew his stuff. So you have one guy (Baretto) on congas or bongos, and the other on bongos or timbales - I still think of Willie Rodriguez, who rarely played congas - just as rarely as Baretto took a stand behind a set of timbales.  

[JSngry]

Thanks for confirming, Mike, and agreed about Osie, even if he himself is not the mystery percussion parts. As you note, fitting into the section with that much transperancy is very rare for a "jazz" kit drummer, even today.

[Larry Kart]

On June 7, 2016 at 6:28 PM, JSngry said:

Enjoy!

Tell me what you hear re:Osie, please.

Definitely a timbale player, along with Osie and Baretto, on track 1. Frank sounds great, a bit Ammons-ish at times. 

[JSngry]

Value for your jazzdollar,  eh?

Wess could cat around with the best of them, even if that's not what he's best known for. That Benny Green date on Vee-Jay with Jug, Wess, and Frank Foster, hey...talkin' that talk, as they used to say.

[Larry Kart]

That Bennie Green Vee-Jay date is one of the great "feel" records. Thinking that Wess sounds Ammons-ish on Track 1 of "The Long Road," I thought of the Green Vee-Jay and of comparing recording dates to see if they were done close together. I'll see if I can find out now.

Report: No -- the Vee-Jay was from 11/12/58, the Nelson-arranged Wess date from 3/22/62.

BTW, Albert Heath is killing on the Green album; there's a joyous "pop" to his work there.

[JSngry]

I love that record. Took me a while to find it whole, though. Used to have just two cuts as the 2nd side of an Eric Dolphy Everest side (sic), then found an OP at Canton First Monday Trade Days for a buck. The same stall also had a sealed copy of the Head  OST for the same pruce...those were the days...

Talk about a "feel album"...that record also has some of the best "feel" liner notes ever as well, by Frank London Brown, Associate Editor Of Ebony Magazine. Don't know who he was, but he was not afraid to project attitude.

[Larry Kart]

Frank London Brown:

http://www.upne.com/155553628X.html

[JSngry]

Well, there you go then, that's in sync with those liner notes, tone and chronology.

Finally got the 3rd Gene Ammons CO in today, so looking forward to checking out tbe Nelson-arranged session in toto. Also have the CO date on deck, and think I might have a blogged MP3 of the Clea Bradford record, so...we ain't yet done here, not yet.

[Chuck Nessa]

54 minutes ago, JSngry said:

Well, there you go then, that's in sync with those liner notes, tone and chronology.

Finally got the 3rd Gene Ammons CO in today, so looking forward to checking out tbe Nelson-arranged session in toto. Also have the CO date on deck, and think I might have a blogged MP3 of the Clea Bradford record, so...we ain't yet done here, not yet.

while you are t it, assemble the quartet date with Mal Waldron.

[JSngry]

?

[JSngry]

http://www.jazzdisco.org/mal-waldron/discography

Oh, i see.

Gene Ammons QuartetGene Ammons (tenor sax) Mal Waldron (piano) Wendell Marshall (bass) Ed Thigpen (drums)

Rudy Van Gelder Studio, Englewood Cliffs, NJ, September 5, 1962

3573 Light'n Up Prestige PRLP 7320, PRCD 24266-2

3574 Short Stop Prestige PR 7400, PRCD 24266-2

3575 They Say You're Laughing At Me Prestige PR 7400, PR 7708, PRCD 24155-2, PRCD 24266-2

3576 It's The Talk Of The Town Prestige PR 7369, PR 7708, PRCD 24155-2

3577 Salome's Tune Prestige PRLP 7320, PRCD 24266-2

3578 Blue Coolade Prestige PR 7400, PRCD 24266-2

3579 A Stranger In Town Prestige 45-336, PRLP 7320, PRCD 24155-2, PRCD 24266-2

3580 You Go To My Head Prestige PR 7369, PRCD 24155-2

* Prestige PR 7400   Gene Ammons - Sock!

* Prestige PR 7708   The Best Of Gene Ammons For Beautiful People

* Prestige PR 7369; Original Jazz Classics OJCCD 980-2  Gene Ammons - Angel Eyes

* Prestige PRCD 24266-2   Gene Ammons - A Stranger In Town

* Prestige PRCD 24155-2   Gene Ammons - Gentle Jug, Vol. 2

* Prestige 45-336   Gene Ammons - Velvet Soul / A Stranger In Town

Jesus....

 

 

[Joe]

9 hours ago, JSngry said:

http://www.jazzdisco.org/mal-waldron/discography

Oh, i see.

Gene Ammons QuartetGene Ammons (tenor sax) Mal Waldron (piano) Wendell Marshall (bass) Ed Thigpen (drums)

Rudy Van Gelder Studio, Englewood Cliffs, NJ, September 5, 1962

3573 Light'n Up Prestige PRLP 7320, PRCD 24266-2

3574 Short Stop Prestige PR 7400, PRCD 24266-2

3575 They Say You're Laughing At Me Prestige PR 7400, PR 7708, PRCD 24155-2, PRCD 24266-2

3576 It's The Talk Of The Town Prestige PR 7369, PR 7708, PRCD 24155-2

3577 Salome's Tune Prestige PRLP 7320, PRCD 24266-2

3578 Blue Coolade Prestige PR 7400, PRCD 24266-2

3579 A Stranger In Town Prestige 45-336, PRLP 7320, PRCD 24155-2, PRCD 24266-2

3580 You Go To My Head Prestige PR 7369, PRCD 24155-2

* Prestige PR 7400   Gene Ammons - Sock!

* Prestige PR 7708   The Best Of Gene Ammons For Beautiful People

* Prestige PR 7369; Original Jazz Classics OJCCD 980-2  Gene Ammons - Angel Eyes

* Prestige PRCD 24266-2   Gene Ammons - A Stranger In Town

* Prestige PRCD 24155-2   Gene Ammons - Gentle Jug, Vol. 2

* Prestige 45-336   Gene Ammons - Velvet Soul / A Stranger In Town

Jesus....

 

 

Thanks for this. I'd not realized all these tracks had made it to CD.

[JSngry]

The nifty part is that almost all of them are on that Stranger In Town CD, which was the one I was waiting on to complete the Nelson session. The remainder are on Gentle Jug V2 which remains an easy pickup.

[JSngry]

Anybody heard this one? Saxes are listed as Nelson & King Curtis. I figure that KC takes the spotlight where there's any to be had, but you never know. And what about arrangements for the two horns, anything past the basics?

Ordered it today, so answers will be forthcoming soon enough...

[JSngry]

Ok, had a chance to get to the Ammons/Nelson date this weekend. My technology is not optimal right now, so I've yet to be able to collate the session onto one CD, but by impression so far is that it would make a decent enough records if released standalone. The charts are good, the playing is fine (solos consistently, ensemble almost consistently), and the releasing of parts of this semi-big-band session across three separate CDs (and LPs) really dilutes the vibe, especially since the Nelson date has a totally different recording ambiance (and not for the better, really).

Oh, and there's a second tenor soloist on "The Song Is You" that is alleged to be Ammons in the liners, could be either Red Holloway or George Barrow based on the given personnel, but who to my ears could very easily be Jimmy Forrest. Hmmm...

The days of this being an economically feasible "together at last" type reissue are pretty much gone, but hey, we got a record here if we want one, and a pretty damn good one at that, I think

Here are the discographical details from Doug Payne's Oliver Nelson discography. I've blue-bolded the CDs I used to get the material. And oh by the way - Oliver wrote himself into the lead alto chair for this one. Economics, perhaps, but I'd like to think that there's more to it than just that.

LATE HOUR SPECIAL
Gene Ammons
June 13, 1961 
Englewood Cliffs, New Jersey: June 13, 1961
Hobart Dotson, Clark Terry (tp); Oliver Nelson (as, arr, cond); Gene Ammons, George Barrow, Red Holloway (ts); Bob Ashton (bs); Richard Wyands (p); Wendell Marshall (b); Bill English (d); Ray Barretto (cga).

a. (3079) Things Ain't What They Used To Be (Ellington/Persons) 
b. (3080) Makin' Whoopee (Donaldson/Kahn)     
c. (3081) I Want To Be Loved (But By Only You) (Savannah Churchill)  
d. (3082) Lullaby Of The Leaves (Petkere/Young)

Note: Other titles without Oliver Nelson.  

Issues: a-d on Prestige PR-7287, Prestige OJCCD-942-2 [CD]. 
Singles: c also on Prestige 45-319 [45].
Samplers: c also on Prestige PRCD-24155-2 [CD] titled GENTLE JUG, VOLUME 2.
Producer: Esmond Edwards
Engineer: Rudy Van Gelder

---

SOUL SUMMIT, VOL. 2
(aka SOUL SUMMIT)
Gene Ammons
Englewood Cliffs, New Jersey: June 13, 1961
Hobart Dotson, Clark Terry (tp); Oliver Nelson (as, arr, cond); Gene Ammons, George Barrow, Red Holloway (ts); Bob Ashton (bs); Richard Wyands (p); Wendell Marshall (b); Bill English (d); Ray Barretto (cga).

a. (3083) Too Marvelous For Words         
b. (3084) Love, I've Found You 

Note: Other titles without Oliver Nelson.       

Issues: a & b on Prestige PR-7275 titled SOUL SUMMIT, VOL. 2 and Prestige PRCD-24118-2 [CD] titled SOUL SUMMIT.
Singles: b also on Prestige 45-294 [45].
Samplers: b also on Prestige PRCD-24155-2 [CD] titled GENTLE JUG, VOLUME 2.

---

VELVET SOUL
aka A STRANGER IN TOWN
Gene Ammons
Englewood Cliffs, New Jersey: June 13, 1961
Hobart Dotson, Clark Terry (tp); Oliver Nelson (as, arr, cond); Gene Ammons, George Barrow, Red Holloway (ts); Bob Ashton (bs); Richard Wyands (p); Wendell Marshall (b); Bill English (d); Ray Barretto (cga).

a. (3085) The Song Is You    

Note: Other titles without Oliver Nelson.  

Issues: a on Prestige PR-7320 titled VELVET SOUL and Prestige PRCD-24266-2 [CD] titled A STRANGER IN TOWN.

---

Compilers. compile!

[JSngry]

 

 

Give the alto player some!

Bill English!