Thad Jones/Mel Lewis2

[Bright Moments]

This is a great cd through and through. I picked it up for $6.99 in the local used cd store because i recognized the cover art from the jazz paintings thread. It is great and I have since played it over and over!

There was a prior Thad Jones/Mel Lewis thread limited to the "Mosaic" so I thought i would start this one.

Can anyone tell me why these guys never made it big? (or did they?!) This was my first TJ/ML cd, are there others out there as good as this one for me to check out?

B)

[jazzbo]

Central Park North is coming out next month.

I run hot and cold on this band. Hot on the earliest material, quite cold on the later material. One thing I grab onto on the recordings is the amazing work of Richard Davis and Roland Hanna.

[JSngry]

What do you mean by "making it big"? They stayed together & recorded for quite a while, Mel kept the band together after Thad left the country (and there is a "Vanguard Jazz Orchestra" on Monday nights to this day, I believe(?) ), and they even toured some, which was really a triumph since the band was originally formed as a one-night-a-week rehearsal band.

The records caused a bit of a stir upon initial release, moreso the earlier ones than the later (I'm w/Lon on their relative interest to me, although they all had moments of interest, and POTPOURRI on Philly International was an above-average later effort). The band was never supposed to be a full-time working band, so I think they did all right. Thad's charts got published by Kendor, a major publisher w/good distribution, and they are played by bands across the world even today - they've become part of the "common repertoire" of modern big band jazz.

The mid-60s saw a mini-revival of the big bands, and Jones-Lewis were in the forefront of that revival. They did what they set out to do (provide an outlet for writers and players who needed one), and a whole lot more.

[John L]

Or, to put it another way, they made it just about as big as a big jazz band could make it in the 1960s.

[Big Wheel]

What's the dividing line between their "earlier" and "later" material? I only have Consummation and absolutely love it...probably played it about 10 times in a row after picking it up.

[DrJ]

Well Big Wheel, you're in for a treat once you hear the earlier records. I would agree with Jim and Lon - as great as the later records like CONSUMMATION and CENTRAL PARK NORTH are to me, they have some patches that to my ears haven't aged as well. For example, I do have a hard time getting past some of the numbers with electric bass - I am not fundamentally against electrified jazz, but to me these cuts sound time bound and kitschy now.

By contrast, the earlier material is consistently sublime and still sounds ultra fresh and contemporary even today, precisely because they didn't pander to any trends and just made beautiful, creative music. Just simply amazing how creative the charts were, how wonderful the playing and writing - what a cast. Bob Brookmeyer's arranging work in particular is monumental.

Blue Note definitely has to get around to reissuing all their holdings of Jones/Lewis, the music is just too good to sit in the vault. The first 3 discs of the Mosaic are among my favorite jazz recordings ever. This includes the albums PRESNTING THAD JONES-MEL LEWIS AND THE JAZZ ORCHESTRA, LIVE AT THE VILLAGE VANGUARD, and MONDAY NIGHT plus previously unissued stuff from that era - so everything from 1966 through 1968.

Edited March 15, 2004 by DrJ

[LAL]

One more for consideration - Opening Night: Thad Jones/Mel Lewis Big Band at the Village Vanguard February 7, 1966 [Alan Grant Presents]. More info at AMG.

[JSngry]

What's the dividing line between their "earlier" and "later" material? I only have Consummation and absolutely love it...probably played it about 10 times in a row after picking it up.

The first three, and a fair part of CONSUMMATION. After that, Thad's writing seemed to get a little "heavier", and to no real gain. The real strength of that band to me was as a latter-day combination of Basie & Ellington - Basie in the way that you had a totally idyosyncratic rhthym section (Hanna, Davis, & Lewis were anything but conventional, especially in a big-band context) and a band full of strong soloists (the band had any # of players who could, would, and did stretch out to satisfying length at the drop of a hat) who worked in conjunction to defy the traditional big-band conventions of solo space vs. chart, as well as the rhythm section sticking to one groove during the arrangement and solos both; Ellington in the richness and textural variety of Thad's (& Brookmeyer's) totally unique arrangements. LAter on, the soloists often dipped a notch in creativity, and the arrangements seemed to become a bit formulaic. Not always (hell, you turn Billy Harper loose on ANYTHING and nuthin' but good comed forth), but often enough.

Still, there are enough moments to make any Joines/Lewis album worthy of a checkout or three, I think. And live, they could still deliver the goods. I remember a PBS thing that I think I still have on a reel-to-reel tape in my closed (full of hum from holding the mike too close to the tv) that was damn fine, and the Muncih side on A&M/Horizon caught a nice groove too.

[BFrank]

There's a Laserlight version of the live at the Village Vanguard set floading around. It's mis-labeled as being recorded in 1970, but it's actually the 1967 stuff. It might be easy to find in the remainder/used bins.

[Bright Moments]

great comments all, thanks! B)

and nice to see you Dr. J! where have you been!

Edited March 15, 2004 by Evan

[Clunky]

I'm quite fond of this one

New Life: Dedicated to Max Gordon on A&M from 1975

AMG doesn't rate it but it's pretty good in my book.

[king ubu]

No more raves about this one (I did that before) - just let me say: IT'S FUCKIN' GREAT!!

Mr. Yanow's review:

This live concert, broadcast over Swiss radio and released for the first time on this 1995 CD, features the Thad Jones/Mel Lewis Orchestra at its prime. The remarkable all-star group includes two first trumpeters (Snooky Young and Al Porcino) and such soloists as trumpeters Richard Williams, Danny Moore and Thad Jones, trombonist Jimmy Knepper, Jerome Richardson on soprano, Jerry Dodgion on flute and alto, baritonist Pepper Adams, pianist Roland Hanna, bassist Richard Davis and tenor great Joe Henderson whose short stint with the band was long enough to include this European tour. Highlights of the superior set include "Second Race," "The Waltz You Swang For Me," "Don't Get Sassy" and "Groove Merchant." Highly recommended to fans of the band, this Swiss CD can be found with a bit of a search. — Scott Yanow

(http://www.allmusic.com/cg/amg.dll?p=amg&u...l=A8kpsa9ygu23h)

CDUniverse seems to have the best prize: http://www.cduniverse.com/productinfo.asp?...&cart=180919632

Henderson is killing on track #1, there's one trio track (and indeed the rhythm section is one of the best things about this band), other soloists include Hanna, Adams, Williams, Richardson...

And I'm in the same boat as Lon about the later stuff (although I don't know much of it) - the first 3 discs of the Mosaic are great, later some of it is great, some good, some a bit drab.

What's the word about their collaborations with Ruth Brown (never heard it) and Joe Williams (I like it alright, but I do think it's a slight disappointment).

ubu

[MartyJazz]

Can anyone tell me why these guys never made it big? (or did they?!) This was my first TJ/ML cd, are there others out there as good as this one for me to check out?

I was fortunate back in the late '60s through the early '70s to regularly go the Village Vanguard on a Monday night to check out this band. At the time, I always looked forward to hear Pepper Adams, Billy Harper and Thad himself solo and one of the great added features was to see a very young, fresh-faced Dee Dee Bridgewater sing with the band. She was not anywhere near as polished and technically assured as she is now, but she was absolutely wonderful. Thad was a great m.c. as well as arranger, trumpet master. Ah, memories......

Funny that I don't own one CD of this band, but I do have quite a few LPs that I bought back then.