Welcome to BFT208!

[randyhersom]

on 2 I had already started to notice the extreme lower register and wondered about Braxton.  The hint would seem to lead in that direction.

 

Edited July 5, 2021 by randyhersom

[tkeith]

6 hours ago, randyhersom said:

on 2 I had already started to notice the extreme lower register and wondered about Braxton.  The hint would seem to lead in that direction.

 

Not quite.

[tkeith]

9 hours ago, rostasi said:

The thing about this #2 is that the piano is in the background
for most of the tune, then there's this moment about a minute
before the end where it sounds like Sun Ra stepping out for a
second or two, then back into the background the piano goes.
I still feel like I should know this - and that I actually have it, but...

I supremely hope that you do, because there ARE questions surrounding this!

 

[webbcity]

Haven't been around these parts in quite a while, but came out of retirement to check out Thom's latest BFT, and no surprise, it was well worth it. It's no secret that we have very similar tastes and I loved almost everything on this BFT.

Below are my comments as they came to me while listening...

Track 1 - I can name that tune in one note! It is, of course, Stanley Cowell's "Maimoun"... but... who is doing this? My immediate thought is Dwight Trible just because I know he's covered some of this area but I don't really know him well enough to know for sure. I am a massive fan of this flute solo. Wow. Now wait a minute... I have this! In fact, I think I may have put a track from this on my last BFT? It's that Jane Bunnett album "Spirituals & Dedications." Yeah, that's Dewey Redman. And of course, I should have immediately recognized that it was Cowell playing his own tune at the beginning. I can't remember the singer's name on this though. This is killer!

Track 2 - Already hooked within the first 30 seconds. The feel on this...damn! Multiple clarinets, and flutes? And some SERIOUS tone on that upright. Drummer right in the pocket. This is deep shit. And that nasty low bari sax... or bass sax even? I should have guesses, I'm sure I know some of these folks, but I'm just enjoying the hell out of this. I need this desperately.

Track 3 - Love that shuffle feel, great sounding ensemble and I like the tune a lot. Reminds me a bit of what I've heard from Malachi Thompson, but I don't know his trumpet playing well enough to know if it's him. Feel like I might be in the right neighborhood though. Definitely has that Chicago feel to it. Really like this one, great playing all around and it's right in my wheelhouse.

Track 4 - Another deep one... you're batting a thousand for feeling, soul, spirit... just beautiful. Strong solos, again. This is another winner for me, if more of a sleeper. But I can tell that in a different mood/time/space I would love this even more.

Track 5 - Harmonically this is wild... and really beautiful. I love the piano intro and how the movement from that to the full group is so natural. Fantastic colors, bordering on Ellingtonia! Brilliant flute solo. Is it possible this is James Newton, or am I way off here? The applause actually took me by surprise... at the beginning of the track I did wonder if it was live due to the piano sound, but then forgot as I was drawn into the tune. I love a good clarinet solo too. This is really something, very anxious to know who & what this is.

Track 6 - Yet another winner, right off the bat. Love the feel, the whole structure of it-- that moving piano line under the longer held notes in the horns. This is ultra cool. Gotta be the piano player's date. He/she is groovin hard and all bizness. Super soulful solo. Now that tenor player sounds real familiar and I'm guessing this is one of your guys Thom. Interesting though... I'm listening on headphones and it sounds like there was an 8 bar section that was maybe edited in? Excellent bass solo but it doesn't sound immediately like anyone I know. Overall this is fantastic.

Track 7 - This is the first one that hasn't completely knocked me out, but I'm still intrigued. The slow movement of the melody in the horns and piano together was interesting at first, but it ended up feeling a little too clinical to me... not enough real emotional content. The alto solo is a bit that way too. This is for me anyway. Just leaves me a bit cold. This felt more like a classical piece than jazz to me.

Track 8 - Great feel in the drums and bass... beautiful bass sound. Really interesting head, the phrasing is unexpected. Basic blues form but I can hear they are going to be pretty free with this. Really digging the tenor solo, beautiful sound and he/she tells a story. The trombone solo feels a little more disjointed/aimless to me, but I like the sound. I LOVE the amount of space the drummer uses, both up to this point and in the solo. Very musical. Clarinet and bass duet? Hello! Very nice. I like the gentle approach and slow build of the clarinet solo.

Track 9 - Ahhhhhh...now hold everything. Rollins! With Bob Cranshaw on electric bass, Stanley Cowell on piano...this is "A House is Not a Home" from "The Cutting Edge." Great, great stuff... hard to know what to say about this because I love it so much. So I'll just listen...

Track 10 - Right from the get-go I love the sound of this group. Beautiful waltz feel in the rhythm section, and the flute and vibes play off each other so well. It's obvious the group members know each other well, or at least have a natural rapport... there is some serious music happening here. Great dynamics and big ears all around. They're probably helped by the tune as well, which sounds like pure joy. Really enjoyed the piano solo as well as the soprano solo. Oh boy... this bass player has gotta be Cecil McBee. Hang on a minute... did you play this one for me not too long ago? My memory is so bad I forgot. Thus I can't remember what it is, but I do believe I've heard this. Anxious to learn what it is again!

Track 11 - This really hit me just before the 3 minute mark where the singer hits that BIG note. This is intriguing to me but wasn't fully hooked in until that point. I think the recording quality is probably part of the issue there. This is a great tune and I'm loving it more the deeper I get in... the band and backup singers are with us now and I am down for this ride. Boy I feel like I know this. Or I *should*. I expect the reveal will make me kick myself but I have no guesses so far. Damn, the soprano solo is killin. Trombone solo, beautiful! I swear I know this tune. I am sensing Horace Tapscott in here... it has that feeling to it. Is it one of his groups? Maybe THIS is Trible? I am fully sold on this now.

Thanks for your efforts putting this together my man, this just made my day!

Also, what are you doing to me? I just spent a ton on records and now I'm sure I'm gonna have to add a bunch more to the list...  Time to go back and see what has been ID'd so far...

[JSngry]

Some props to Mtume for his conga playing on that ballad, btw.

[tkeith]

41 minutes ago, webbcity said:

Haven't been around these parts in quite a while, but came out of retirement to check out Thom's latest BFT, and no surprise, it was well worth it. It's no secret that we have very similar tastes and I loved almost everything on this BFT.

Below are my comments as they came to me while listening...

Track 1 - I can name that tune in one note! It is, of course, Stanley Cowell's "Maimoun"... but... who is doing this? My immediate thought is Dwight Trible just because I know he's covered some of this area but I don't really know him well enough to know for sure. I am a massive fan of this flute solo. Wow. Now wait a minute... I have this! In fact, I think I may have put a track from this on my last BFT? It's that Jane Bunnett album "Spirituals & Dedications." Yeah, that's Dewey Redman. And of course, I should have immediately recognized that it was Cowell playing his own tune at the beginning. I can't remember the singer's name on this though. This is killer!

Ding!  Ding!  Previously ID'd, but I'm'a give you the ding, anyway.  Was not aware DT has covered this stuff.  As you well know, LOVE me some Dwight Trible!

41 minutes ago, webbcity said:

Track 2 - Already hooked within the first 30 seconds. The feel on this...damn! Multiple clarinets, and flutes? And some SERIOUS tone on that upright. Drummer right in the pocket. This is deep shit. And that nasty low bari sax... or bass sax even? I should have guesses, I'm sure I know some of these folks, but I'm just enjoying the hell out of this. I need this desperately.

Contrabass clarinet.  And I can name two guys who play that, and as Randy discovered, it's not Braxton!

41 minutes ago, webbcity said:

Track 3 - Love that shuffle feel, great sounding ensemble and I like the tune a lot. Reminds me a bit of what I've heard from Malachi Thompson, but I don't know his trumpet playing well enough to know if it's him. Feel like I might be in the right neighborhood though. Definitely has that Chicago feel to it. Really like this one, great playing all around and it's right in my wheelhouse.

Shuffle and Deal, indeed.  ID's earlier.

41 minutes ago, webbcity said:

Track 4 - Another deep one... you're batting a thousand for feeling, soul, spirit... just beautiful. Strong solos, again. This is another winner for me, if more of a sleeper. But I can tell that in a different mood/time/space I would love this even more.

Yeah, this guy's stuff is DEFINITEY in our wheelhouse.  In fact, I believe I hit you with another of his tunes last time we connected. 

41 minutes ago, webbcity said:

Track 5 - Harmonically this is wild... and really beautiful. I love the piano intro and how the movement from that to the full group is so natural. Fantastic colors, bordering on Ellingtonia! Brilliant flute solo. Is it possible this is James Newton, or am I way off here? The applause actually took me by surprise... at the beginning of the track I did wonder if it was live due to the piano sound, but then forgot as I was drawn into the tune. I love a good clarinet solo too. This is really something, very anxious to know who & what this is.

Newton is correct, and yes, it is live.  Another we discussed in our last foray.

41 minutes ago, webbcity said:

Track 6 - Yet another winner, right off the bat. Love the feel, the whole structure of it-- that moving piano line under the longer held notes in the horns. This is ultra cool. Gotta be the piano player's date. He/she is groovin hard and all bizness. Super soulful solo. Now that tenor player sounds real familiar and I'm guessing this is one of your guys Thom. Interesting though... I'm listening on headphones and it sounds like there was an 8 bar section that was maybe edited in? Excellent bass solo but it doesn't sound immediately like anyone I know. Overall this is fantastic.

I mean, this has been ID'd, and yes, DEFINITELY my guys.

41 minutes ago, webbcity said:

Track 7 - This is the first one that hasn't completely knocked me out, but I'm still intrigued. The slow movement of the melody in the horns and piano together was interesting at first, but it ended up feeling a little too clinical to me... not enough real emotional content. The alto solo is a bit that way too. This is for me anyway. Just leaves me a bit cold. This felt more like a classical piece than jazz to me.

And, not surprisingly, it's the most in-the-tradition/new-guys-stuff track on the whole BFT. 

41 minutes ago, webbcity said:

Track 8 - Great feel in the drums and bass... beautiful bass sound. Really interesting head, the phrasing is unexpected. Basic blues form but I can hear they are going to be pretty free with this. Really digging the tenor solo, beautiful sound and he/she tells a story. The trombone solo feels a little more disjointed/aimless to me, but I like the sound. I LOVE the amount of space the drummer uses, both up to this point and in the solo. Very musical. Clarinet and bass duet? Hello! Very nice. I like the gentle approach and slow build of the clarinet solo.

Would you say this abstraction of the blues was worthy of a MacArthur Grant?  Because this guy has one.

41 minutes ago, webbcity said:

Track 9 - Ahhhhhh...now hold everything. Rollins! With Bob Cranshaw on electric bass, Stanley Cowell on piano...this is "A House is Not a Home" from "The Cutting Edge." Great, great stuff... hard to know what to say about this because I love it so much. So I'll just listen...

You will recall, I forced you to play this in a duet at a gig... and totally made you take the solo.  #greattune

41 minutes ago, webbcity said:

Track 10 - Right from the get-go I love the sound of this group. Beautiful waltz feel in the rhythm section, and the flute and vibes play off each other so well. It's obvious the group members know each other well, or at least have a natural rapport... there is some serious music happening here. Great dynamics and big ears all around. They're probably helped by the tune as well, which sounds like pure joy. Really enjoyed the piano solo as well as the soprano solo. Oh boy... this bass player has gotta be Cecil McBee. Hang on a minute... did you play this one for me not too long ago? My memory is so bad I forgot. Thus I can't remember what it is, but I do believe I've heard this. Anxious to learn what it is again!

Not Cecil, but the bassist appears elsewhere on this BFT.

41 minutes ago, webbcity said:

Track 11 - This really hit me just before the 3 minute mark where the singer hits that BIG note. This is intriguing to me but wasn't fully hooked in until that point. I think the recording quality is probably part of the issue there. This is a great tune and I'm loving it more the deeper I get in... the band and backup singers are with us now and I am down for this ride. Boy I feel like I know this. Or I *should*. I expect the reveal will make me kick myself but I have no guesses so far. Damn, the soprano solo is killin. Trombone solo, beautiful! I swear I know this tune. I am sensing Horace Tapscott in here... it has that feeling to it. Is it one of his groups? Maybe THIS is Trible? I am fully sold on this now.

Ding!  Ding!

41 minutes ago, webbcity said:

Thanks for your efforts putting this together my man, this just made my day!

Also, what are you doing to me? I just spent a ton on records and now I'm sure I'm gonna have to add a bunch more to the list...  Time to go back and see what has been ID'd so far...

2 minutes ago, JSngry said:

 

41 minutes ago, webbcity said:

 

20 hours ago, rostasi said:

 

Not sure what's going on with the multiple quotes, other than the forum is totally f***ing me this evening.  Not today, ISIS... not today.

 

11 minutes ago, JSngry said:

Some props to Mtume for his conga playing on that ballad, btw.

A bit, no?

[JSngry]

This guy?

otherwise...Sclavis? Portal?

[JSngry]

P a u l   A u s t e r l i t z?

[JSngry]

I pondered on Golia, but this item has a feel of overdubbing or....something. Almost like a Yesterday's New Quintet thing only more literal, if that makes any sense.

[tkeith]

14 hours ago, JSngry said:

This guy?

otherwise...Sclavis? Portal?

Negative.  The player on the recording is less noted for playing this instrument -- known mostly as a saxophonist, but plays "the full rack" of woodwinds [for the UNH peops].

12 hours ago, rostasi said:

I can think of quite a few contrabass clarinet players other than Braxton,
but that just leaves me throwing out names like Bluiett, Golia, Bowden,
James Carter, Ewart, Omoe and others, but that still doesn't get me any
closer to the album or tune.

To be fair... you sir, are not normal.    I'll say this, you're on the fast track.

[webbcity]

I had wondered about Bluiett on track 2 myself, but then I wasn't convinced. In the right neighborhood though?

[tkeith]

Let's just say this guy has definitely strolled through Mr. Bluiett's neighborhood.

[JSngry]

You're making it hard to not guess James Carter?

[tkeith]

10 minutes ago, JSngry said:

You're making it hard to not guess James Carter?

I hope so, because that IS the correct guess.  It's also an important piece of the puzzle.

 

[JSngry]

I did a shallow dive on AMG for James Carter's credits on contrabass saxophone and didn't find any record that was an obvious DOH! but I guess it's there in the world to be found somewhere...

[tkeith]

Just now, JSngry said:

I did a shallow dive on AMG for James Carter's credits on contrabass saxophone and didn't find any record that was an obvious DOH! but I guess it's there in the world to be found somewhere...

You WON'T find any record that is obvious.  This was recorded off the radio about 20 years ago.  I have the track personnel, but not the album name.  I've reached out to James for some assistance.  He was gracious and asked me to share the file with him, which I did, but I have not heard back, yet.  It is NOT his date, so there is still lot's to discuss here.

[Dub Modal]

4 minutes ago, tkeith said:

You WON'T find any record that is obvious.  This was recorded off the radio about 20 years ago.  I have the track personnel, but not the album name.  I've reached out to James for some assistance.  He was gracious and asked me to share the file with him, which I did, but I have not heard back, yet.  It is NOT his date, so there is still lot's to discuss here.

Whoa - this is some rare stuff indeed 

[tkeith]

Quite, quite.

[randyhersom]

Want to share the personnel with the sleuthing crew?

 

[tkeith]

10 hours ago, randyhersom said:

Want to share the personnel with the sleuthing crew?

 

well, if I do that it gives away what it is.  I'd prefer to hold off a week or so.

 

[felser]

13 hours ago, randyhersom said:

Want to share the personnel with the sleuthing crew?

 

[tkeith]

[tkeith]

On 7/8/2021 at 10:46 PM, randyhersom said:

Want to share the personnel with the sleuthing crew?

 

Alrighty, we're about at the three week mark and James Carter was ID'd as the conrabass clarinetist.  The song is called "Children's Blues" and here is the personnel:  Donald Washington - clarinet, James Carter - contra bass clarinet, Cassius Richmond - alto flute, Faye Washington - flute, Sam Favors - piano, Jeff Bailey - bass, Kevin Washington - drums

Donald Washington was announced as the leader.

[randyhersom]

From:

https://www.metrotimes.com/detroit/james-carters-loyalty-oath/Content?oid=2148415

For those unfamiliar with Carter's history, he grew up in Detroit the youngest offspring of a talented musical clan. He studied with a number of the Detroit elders, but first and foremost was middle-school saxophonist-educator Donald Washington, who ran a boot camp of a jazz band called Bird-Trane-Sco-Now! (as in Charlie Parker, John Coltrane, the Art Ensemble of Chicago's Roscoe Mitchell and the kids like Carter who were happening now). 

James Carter: It goes back to my musical father, Donald Washington. He always said longevity is the key. The longer a group stays together, the more it becomes of one mind as the relationship and musicianship progresses. Case in point, the classic Coltrane quartet albums Live at the Village Vanguard and One Down One Up. Those recording are great as the result of the band playing together for a while. Those recordings weren't some all-star hookup. 

 

And 10 continues to elude us.

[tkeith]

Yeah, I've hit the online resources hard.  I reached out to James directly, but he's a busy dude.  I may try the DJ who originally played it.