Mahler's First Symphony

[Peter Johnson]

Gail and I will be going to the Philadelphia Orchestra's performance of Shostakovich's Violin Concerto No. 2 (a piece I dearly love) and Mahler's Symphony No. 1 this Saturday.

Although I'm pretty well-versed in classical music, I know almost no Mahler (*hangs head in shame*). Can some of you tell me what to expect from Mahler 1? Bombast? Introspection? Major? Minor? Dissonance? Any and all thoughts are welcome...I'm hoping this will finally open my eyes to this extraordinary composer. Thanks!

[Rooster_Ties]

Mahler's 1st was, oddly enough, one of the very first 'big' orchestral works I specifically remember having heard performed live. I heard the CSO perform it in Chicago when I was about a sophomore in college (circa 1988 or '89). Sure, I had probably been to the symphony before (couple times probably), and heard what??? -- I can't really remember (and couldn't back then either). Mahler 1 was the first long-form symphonic work that really left any kind of an impact on me.

Lots of brass (at times), as I remember -- I think I last listened to a recording of Mahler 1 about two years ago. Fairly approachable stuff, as I recall (as far as Mahler goes) -- and not nearly as "sprawling" as some of his later symphonies. Lots and lots of chromatic shifts, but then that's what Mahler's all about.

If you've already got ears for Brahms, then Mahler isn't so radically different as to be off-putting. He's more complex (to my ears) than Beethoven, but then again -- Ludwig could get pretty far out there too (more in his late string quartets, than his big symphonic works -- again, just to my ears -- what do I know??).

It'll be very melodic (and I only mean that literally, not figuratively), with lots and lots of contrasting themes, and themes layered on top of each other. Nothing you'll walk out of the hall humming, but there's gonna me melody everywhere. Mostly "dark" - with stunning shifts from darkness into light (that's just a general description of Mahler, and not of Mahler 1 specifically -- which I'm having trouble remembering specifically at the moment). Probably more minor than major, but there's probably one 'upbeat' (if that term can be used with Mahler) movement, that's largely in a major key.

If you get bitten by the Mahler bug, he's a facinating composer to embrace. Took me a long time to get into him, but I think I just heard a few lackluster performaces (after that first one, which I remember as being great). Now I love him, and when I get on a Mahler kick - I can't get enough.

Please let us know your reactions, Peter. I, for one, will be very interested to hear them.

Edited April 28, 2004 by Rooster_Ties

[Free For All]

To me, Mahler is to music what William Faulkner is to literature. Dark, brooding, often verbose, requires a lot of focus to get through, but ultimately very much worth the effort! I think the piece you're going to hear, Peter, is, as Rooster said, more accessible. Great harmonies in Mahler.

He's created some great moments for brass sections, if I may indulge my own preference.

[A Lark Ascending]

Listen out for the funeral march in movement three. It's based on 'Frere Jacques' (or 'Brother Martin' in German version) and Mahler does extraordinary things with it; breaking it up are some heartbreakingly beautiful pastoral sections.

The first and last movements are quite over the top - bombastic might be a fair enough phrase though full of fine melodies. Very late-19thC.

There's a nice scherzo (movement 2) with an edgy violin dance - always makes me think of skeletons.

The first four Mahler Symphonies are very closely tied to German Romanticism and nature worship.

After that 5, 6, 7, 9, the recontructed Tenth and 'The Song of the Earth' go to some very strange places (the 8th is a choral piece and has its own world).

I first listened to Mahler in 1973. He remains the composer I return to most.

[take5]

The first is the "Titan" symphony, and that word pretty much describes the man's work. But it's the shortest, too: it's the only one that fits on one CD, to my knowledge.

Very dense, huge orchestration.

I've been delving into his work recently. It can be like its own hobby. I have yet to see it performed live, though.

[Rooster_Ties]

But it's the shortest, too: it's the only one that fits on one CD, to my knowledge.

Mahler 4 and 5 usually fit on one CD (not together, but individually). And occasionally 8, and even sometimes 9 does as well (though I think they have to really rush the tempos on 9 to get it on one disc).

But your basic statement is true, that plenty of Mahler's symphonies are LONG!!!

[Spontooneous]

I remember the thrill of discovering Mahler 1, 20-plus years ago.

Favorite moment: In the last half of the third movement, where the "Frere Jacques" theme is crowded out by the winds and percussion playing like a klezmer band gone mad. Some crazy personal symbolism there, I guess.

[Rooster_Ties]

I often think I hear 'klezmer'-like themes in Mahler -- even probably sometimes when they really aren't related to klezmer music. In any case, the overall tone and feeling of many of his melodies remind of of klezmer.

Edited April 29, 2004 by Rooster_Ties

[A Lark Ascending]

There was a TV documentary about Mahler done by Leonard Bernstein in the 80s which really flagged up the Jewish roots of much of his music. Once you start listening for it it's very clear.

Uri Caine's Mahler arrangements frequently play this up, even to the point of having a cantor singing over the top in places.

Many of the themes of the First can also be found in the 'Songs of a Wayfarer' cycle.

[Claude]

But it's the shortest, too: it's the only one that fits on one CD, to my knowledge.

Mahler 4 and 5 usually fit on one CD (not together, but individually). And occasionally 8, and even sometimes 9 does as well (though I think they have to really rush the tempos on 9 to get it on one disc).

But your basic statement is true, that plenty of Mahler's symphonies are LONG!!!

The only Mahler symphony that is always longer than 80 minutes (CD length) is the 3rd. The 2nd, 6th and 9th are also longer than 80 minutes in most interpretations, but there are recordings which fit onto one CD.

In my view the first symphony is rather accessible as far as Mahler's works go. I especially like the haunting slow start of the first movement. Just yesterday I bought yet another version of this symphony, the 1964 Decca recording by Georg Solti (5 Euro bargain at Zweitausendeins). Mahler is the only classical composer of whom I have three and more versions of every work. Bernstein is my favorite Mahler conductor, the 9th my favourite symphony.

For Mahler starters, the Telarc recordings by Benjamin Zander are a good option, they contain a free CD where the conduction explains his vision of the work. Zander has recorded the symphonies 3, 4, 5, 6, 9 until now. www.telarc.com

[J.A.W.]

I agree with Bev and Claude's views above.

My favorite versions of Mahler 1 are:

- Royal Concertgebouw Orchestra Amsterdam / Bernard Haitink - Philips; 1972 recording

- Berlin Philharmonic Orchestra / Bernard Haitink - Philips; 1987 recording

- Berlin Philharmonic Orchestra / Claudio Abbado - DG; 1989 recording

- Royal Concertgebouw Orchestra Amsterdam / Riccardo Chailly - Decca; 1995 recording.

Edited April 29, 2004 by J.A.W.

[Claude]

BTW, the first version of Mahler's First symphony had 5 movements. A second movement "Blumine" (andante, ca 7 minutes long) was then eliminated by Mahler. It is the cheesiest and dullest pieces of music he has composed.

[J.A.W.]

BTW, the first version of Mahler's First symphony had 5 movements. A second movement "Blumine" (andante, ca 7 minutes long) was then eliminated by Mahler. It is the cheesiest and dullest pieces of music he has composed.

You're not wrong.

[Chuck Nessa]

"Blumine" is quite touching in the proper context. By that I mean the original 1893 version of the symphony. The well known edition of Mahler 1 is a later reorchestration. The 1893 version is lighter sounding (and the orchestra is smaller) and contains a number of startling effects. In the introduction the clarinet fanfares are played by the horns and in the funeral march the solo bass is doubled by cello. At the very end of the work the drum roll is twice as long.

Anyway, I think the movement "works" better in this version.

None of my favorites have been mentioned yet:

Horenstein/VSO 1953

Horenstein/LSO 1969

Guilini/CSO circa 1969

Walter/NYP 1954

and for the 1893 version;

Wyn Morris/New Philharmonia circa 1970

[Peter Johnson]

Wow! I knew I'd get some responses, but such searching analysis! Thanks, guys--I can't wait to hear this now. The concert is Saturday night--I'll report back with my thoughts and impressions.

I truly appreciate all of your thoughts and opinions on what must be an extraordinary work! Thanks!

[A Lark Ascending]

And don't overlook the Deryck Cooke reconstruction of the Tenth.

At one time this was controversial with some orchestras - the Berlin Phil among them - refusing to touch it. Simon Rattle, amongst others, has championed it, and made performing it part of his contract with the Berliners.

Real curdled late-Romanticism. There's a moment 3/4s way through the first movement (almost all Mahler and often played/recorded on its own) where he seems to be forseeing all the horrors of the 20thC. A Romantic interpretation? Perhaps but it sends chills down my spine.

And the last movement is built round a melody that is as rapturous as anything in Mahler. The first statement on flute has me floored every time and the way the orchestra picks it up in wave after wave of development over the next twenty minutes is simply aching.

I think my overall favourite is the Sixth. Quite despairing in the huge last movement. But with an adagio to die for.

[Chuck Nessa]

Bev, following you off topic I suggest you search out the 10 conducted by Mark Wigglesworth. This was one of those "freebies" with the BBC Music mag a few years ago.

[Peter Johnson]

As if it weren't expensive enough to be a member of this community, I had to go ask about classical music (again) and now (in addition to the Takacs Bartok quartets) I've got to start searching for ten more symphonies!

[Chuck Nessa]

[Pete C]

I often think I hear 'klezmer'-like themes in Mahler -- even probably sometimes when they really aren't related to klezmer music. In any case, the overall tone and feeling of many of his melodies remind of of klezmer.

A lot of Mahler's melodies, especially in the First Symphony, are taken from folk songs. There's a snippet that one can recognize as having been transformed many years later into the bridge of "If I Were a Rich Man" from "Fiddler on the Roof."

[Pete C]

As if it weren't expensive enough to be a member of this community, I had to go ask about classical music (again) and now (in addition to the Takacs Bartok quartets) I've got to start searching for ten more symphonies!

One of my concert highlights of the year was seeing the Takacs Quartet playing Bartok's Fifth in February. Yum.

[A Lark Ascending]

Bev, following you off topic I suggest you search out the 10 conducted by Mark Wigglesworth.  This was one of those "freebies" with the BBC Music mag a few years ago.

I have that from a very early issue of the BBC Music Magazine.

I'm not one for buying lots of versions of classical music but the Tenth has had me go through a very early pre-Cooke Ormandy version, one I can't recall, the Bournemouth Rattle on LP, a CD version I can't recall (I'm away from home and can't check), and a return to he Rattle when it came out on CD. I've heard very good things on the Rattle/BPO version too.

I'm a big fan of Bartok too. In fact a love the whole late-Romantic/early modern era in classical music - Wagner to Berg/Britten/Copland etc. Elsewhere there's lots I enjoy but I feel like I'm on the outside looking in through a window rather than really flowing with the music.

Edited May 1, 2004 by Bev Stapleton

[A Lark Ascending]

Chailly! Just remembered. Very popular with Decca in the late 80s!

[Bright Moments]

can someone please recommend a particular cd of mahler's 1st symphony for me please?

[Larry Kart]

Here's a link to as thorough and sound a survey as one could wish for:

http://www.musicweb-international.com/Mahler/Mahler1.htm

If the second Horsenstein is still available, I vote for that one.