chris

It still boggles my mind that more jazz folks don't ENCOURAGE taping and trading of live shows (except in instances where they are doing professional recording for possible release-- and even then...). I'd think they'd be patching tapers into the soundboard. Jazz is all about the live performance-- and in my view it only stimulates more searching for and purchasing of the group's and musician's released material. There isn't a lot of taper-friendly music that really rocks my world, but those that do have been the spur for purchasing more than a few CDs by the band and the sidemen. I can understand platinum album artists objecting from a label standpoint, but a niche market like jazz is a whole different thing-- why don't people learn from the taper-friendly success?

Sorry to make such a long post, but two other points. 1) I'm not "throwing stones" at the labels as much as I am recognizing that there are other issues involved and that I'm not an inhabitant of the country in question. It's similar to the moral question of moving one's assets to offshore tax havens... may be legal, may not be right. To/for ME. 2) In today's day and age we do have the technology to fix this distribution problem (it's the classic "long tail" problem which is all the rage in geek circles nowadays), but the only service I will deal with right now is Emusic. Until they come up with a notion of digital rights that meets my criteria (no "leasing", not troublesome for me to listen to on my own four household computers, not to mention work computers and multiple portable devices) I won't use these other services. Three devices? Leasing? Can't put a copy on CD for the car? I don't think so. I'll just rely on buying and ripping my own CDs.

Look-- I don't "have the cash." Not by any stretch of the imagination. Practically all of my CD purchases are bargain priced CDs from this board, from BMG/YourMusic, or ebay snipes. I have two Mosaics which I saved for because I have two kids that come first, but even those are what-- 18 per disc, which my daughter wants me to pay for the latest Nelly CD from Sam Goody.. Sometimes I pop for some full-price CDs, such as the order I will be putting in with Nessa soon, or something that's high on my wish list. That being said, I'm just looking to do the right thing. I don't really know all the ins and outs of the legal issues. My understanding was that-- with JSP-- JRT Davies actually made the selections and did the remastering from as close to the source as possible, while other JSP material is simply copying wholesale. The issue for me comes down to a couple of things: First-- and perhaps most important-- is the musician or their family properly receiving any monies they should. The Monks and Sue Mingus might go a little overboard in declaring labels to be thieves, but certainly they have some reason to be angry. Second-- is there a reasonable chance that I can find the music on something else that is more legitimate. If I can find all or most of the music from a Proper box at $15-$20 per CD instead of $5 then I'd probably rather wait. Just because it's cheap and easy doesn't mean it's best to take it. If it's something I'm never going to find, then I'm not too worried. If it's something that I will only find for some completely exorbitant price, then it becomes a real quandary. We live in a global economy, granted, but that doesn't make taking advantage of the copyright laws of other countries when it suits us is necessarily morally in tune with where I want to be. On the other hand, I find the US copyright law to be completely draconian, based on legislation supported by special interests like Disney (and their cronies) who have made their own money based on the work of others and now seek to bar anyone else from doing the same. I am a real proponent of the Creative Commons and Lawrence Lessig's ideas in Free Culture about how this needs to be fixed. But seeing as how I don't LIVE in one of these countries and the artists generally didn't either, I feel a little ambigous about obtaining that work unless the first two conditions aren't met. I'm glad for this discussion-- I knew nothing of these issues when I started purchasing jazz and the prices on some of these are oh-so-tempting. I just want to learn a bit more to exercise some discrimination in what my buying supports and implies for ME. It's not my place to judge anyone else!

yep-- and I've never understood it from the beginning

Are there any stats for longest threads? I am curious if this long thread is the longest non "miscellaneous" thread (in other words, excluding "what are you listening to today" and "funny stuff on the web" and that kind of thing). 120 pages of posts...

Dancing about architecture?

So far on my list of rip-off labels I have: JSP (excluding Davies and Kendall produced sets) Definitive And potentially: Proper (though I do love the Fats Navarro Proper box I got a while back and they seem to have great booklets) Are there others to avoid? Do you avoid the ones mentioned above?

OK, this has REALLY whetted my appetite. Is there a web site to order from Uptown and other Nessa discs? Or a mailing list? What's the story? I see Cadence carries some but is that the best source? I've been searching the threads for this info but I've given up

they don't call it the big-bang-theory fer nuthin'! My god, it's full of [porn] stars...

I went to this show on Friday and it was FANTASTIC. The lineup was: Sax: Craig Handy, Jaleel Shaw, Miguel Zenon, Abraham Burton, Ronnie Cuber Trumpets: Eddie Henderson, Kenny Rampton, Ryan Kisor Trombones: Ron Westray, Ku-umba Frank Lacy, Earl McIntyre Piano: Kenny Drew Je Bass: Boriz Kozlov Drums: Jonathan Blake I don't remember the exact order and contents of the sets, but the two generous sets included: E's Flat and Ah's Flat Too Self Portrait in Three Colors Song in Orange Paris in Blue Tonight at Noon Black Saint and Sinner Lady Frank Lacy is a real character and kept things hopping, getting our rather unsure audience (not much jazz up here) going. Loved his vocals on Paris in Blue and another song, though I suspect the purists would find that stuff ind of light. What can I say, I cried listening to Illinois Jacquet's rendition of Wonderful World once too. Highlights included Song in Orange, which was intensely swinging and featured some awesome soloing including Ron Westray, and the extended Black Saint and Sinner Lady which had some amazing soloing by Shaw and Henderson. Kozlov and Blake are a *tight* pair, though watching Kozlov I still couldn't reconcile his classic Russian features with that righteous bass playing. Earl McIntyre even got the house hopping on the tuba at the end! The only relatively "disappointing" part was Kenny Drew, Jr's. playing. To be fair, it wasn't mic'ed very well... but it was just very safe and seemed very conventional to my ears. Maybe he wasn't sleeping well in the land of the midnight sun I'm assuming he is the famous Kenny Drew's son? What a great show. I talked quite a few people into going who weren't jazz listeners-- I think they came away changed...

I liked Offutt's _Kentucky Straight_ the best of all his books-- but there's not a bad one in the bunch. He wrote to me after I reviewed it and I did my best to get him up here for a reading but the stars were never in alignment. Rick Bass is an honorary Alaskan, so thumbs up there too. I'm going to have to order this book!

The Torturer's Apprentice - John Biguenet The Garden State - Gary Krist Fats Waller - Maurice Waller/Anthony Calabrese JLHoots-- is that the best of Montana as in the state? Who's in there? I'd guess Pete Fromm and Richard Ford, at least. I lke Ford's longer works. Night Swimming by Pete Fromm is on my "coming soon" list, recommended by Chris Offutt, a favorite author of mine from Kentucky.

What's the oldest anyone has heard of someone being when they picked up an instrument for the first time (and became any good, though not necessarily famous)? I read somewhere recently that Jimmy Smith started at 28? I had always supposed that the good musicians all started as children... maybe not?

Anyone lucky enough to be attending the St. Lucia Jazz Festival this year (and I don't mean to listen to UB-40 or Fantasia Barrino)... ?

I Guess I need to check out the UU stuff too. I was raised a Baha'i, and have since studied a variety of asian religions... But Paganism? Liberal Quakerism? 1. Unitarian Universalism (100%) 2. Neo-Pagan (87%) 3. Mahayana Buddhism (86%) 4. Liberal Quakers (81%) 5. Hinduism (79%) 6. Sikhism (74%) 7. New Age (73%) 8. Theravada Buddhism (72%) 9. Reform Judaism (70%) 10. Scientology (68%) 11. Mainline to Liberal Christian Protestants (67%) 12. New Thought (65%) 13. Secular Humanism (65%) 14. Taoism (65%) 15. Jainism (64%) 16. Bah�'� Faith (56%) 17. Christian Science (Church of Christ, Scientist) (55%) 18. Orthodox Judaism (40%) 19. Orthodox Quaker (40%) 20. Islam (38%) 21. Nontheist (38%) 22. Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-Day Saints (Mormons) (31%) 23. Mainline to Conservative Christian/Protestant (25%) 24. Seventh Day Adventist (20%) 25. Eastern Orthodox (18%) 26. Roman Catholic (18%) 27. Jehovah's Witness (10%)

Anyone have pictures of her? I was only able to find this one on the web-- Nica and Monk:

Great thread-- thanks for bringing it back up! I love these threads with pictures of musicians and album covers and jazz memorabilia... Maybe people should start using flickr and linking there so the pictures won't randomly disappear as they sometimes do in these and other threads... plus they'd be available for browsing outside of the forums...

How about the Proper Box-- is Proper legit?

I'd like to see that problem somewhat solve itself by doing podcasts that were actually shows with information rather than hi-fi streaming of recordings. Then the music just needs to be of enough fidelity to work for the show, not enough to burn CDs and enjoy A few of the podcasts have gotten ASCAP license deals (or whatever it takes to be legal-- I just read a blurb about it regarding the "Coverville" podcast, which I really enjoy), but I'm curious how the fees are calculated... OF course if more people were trader friendly with live shows and more music were released under the Creative Commons and Magnatunes and whathave you, then maybe there'd be plenty enough to talk about without needing the big boys permission...

As a reformed rocker, I must take exception to you, Sir!!

It's kind of blogging with audio (the term podcast is aperhaps unfortunate holdover from the fact that iPod folks kind of started the whole thing), or user-radio shows on the web. More info: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Podcasting http://www.ipodder.org/whatIsPodcasting The cool thing is that a lot of readers/aggregators are being developed that make it easy to automatically grab the latest shows and put them on your computer, iPod, or other MP3 playback device. Jazz seems like SUCH a natural fit that I imagine it could become a big niche....

In one sense I agree-- but in terms of American Idol as a competition I'd prefer to see a rocker go far rather than yet another Vonzell. If forced to choose I'd much rather hear more generic rock on the radio than more generic Whitney wanna-bes too though

And I'm not saying "Alicia Keys is a ho"-- I'm saying that if .50 Cent degrades women (as he does) and then she shows up with him arm-in-arm (and she has, multiple times), then she is putting herself in a position to be seen that way. It's no different from what I tell my daughter: if she chooses to listen to misogynistic rap that degrades women and treats them as objects, then she is setting herself up to be perceived that way and-- whether she thinks so or not-- tacitly condoning some really reprehensible crap. Keys is in a position that has even MORE responsibility, but she choose to let the prospect of sales override sensibility-- otherwise she'd say "hell no!" when asked to take the stage with Uncle Fitty or anyone else of that ilk (and there is a lot of hip-hop I do like).

That's my POINT. I HAVE heard this music. Do you think Keys hasn't? You really need to learn to read. She's choosing to align herself and hang off the arms of a bunch of "artists" whose sole mission in life seems to be degrading women in their music. Doing so is degrading for her and it's a choice she is consciously making from who she hangs out with to the style of clothing (or lack thereof). Look at how she has chosen to start presenting herself. What she is choosing aligns herself as one of the "ho"s that these same people talk about in their music. I don't like the way these artists portray women, you don't either. Yet Keys chooses to hang on their arms anyway. Because she's in love? Or because it sells some records?