david weiss

I was asked to write a column in one of the New York Jazz monthlies and in one draft, I sort of took on the phenomena without being specific to one artist. It was annoying me a bit seeing the cover of Down Beat and other publications going on and on about the stuff being the future of jazz etc etc. I think most of you have it right and wish you guys were the status quo. How is a well done hip hop or pop record pushing the jazz envelope exactly..... Since I have some regrets about cutting all of that out of my piece, I'm going to post it here. I wound up just writing a piece trying to put a positive spin on the state of jazz today, that there is some good stuff out here, some presenters and clubs get it right and have an audience etc etc. Here is the part I cut out... This fruitless search of the new thing or trying to sell something as the new, groundbreaking thing has bought us to the point where we are being told that artists with jazz backrounds making pop and hip-hop CDs is the newest, groundbreaking thing, even the future of jazz. Said artists are even proclaiming in print that they are pushing the music forward and doing something completely new. It’s easy to think you are making history if you don’t know your history. There have been jazz musicians working in pop, soul, R&B, funk, hip-hop music since the invention of said musics. Most of the Motown session musicians were jazz musicians first. This is nothing new. The only difference was those guys weren’t on the cover of Down Beat saying they are breaking new ground because they can excel in both styles. Sometimes I think we are reliving the ‘70’s which was the last time straight ahead jazz had a down period of sorts and fusion and the avant garde were at the forefront until we had our fill of that and Dexter Gordon came home and Wynton Marsalis burst onto the scene. The only difference between now and then was back then, the jazz artists who began to dabble in electric instruments were maligned as selling out and these days when you make the transition it is proclaimed as a bold new step and moving the music forward. But that is symptomatic of the world we live in today. Since major labels (what’s left of them anyway) are part of large corporations and large corporations want to sell a lot of product, jazz has adopted a pop mentality when it comes to breaking a new artist which is why a lot of our new jazz stars seemingly come out of nowhere with very little experience. Pop is all about breaking new stars, putting a ton of money into a new act and seeing if they take off and now it seems like the jazz world is doing the same thing. It’s nice to see these artists on David Letterman and for Letterman to call them jazz artists but they are playing pop and hip-hop. They sound good of course, they are good musicians but is calling pop and hip-hop jazz because it’s performed by musicians with a jazz backround really helping jazz in the long run? If jazz is dying and not connecting with the youth of today as some say, is this really a long term answer? Despite all this, I still think jazz is in great shape. There are a lot of great bands in all genres of the music performing today so it is still possible to see this music performed at a high level. I just wish things were a little more balanced. For young people to be truly exposed to this music, they need to be exposed to all of it. I don’t think young people only want to hear music created by people their own age though they do perhaps have the notion that only people their own age are hip. I think like everyone else, they want to hear good music, something that moves them and excites them and perhaps if they were exposed to some of the unsung guys out here still carrying the torch and playing music of great beauty with passion and intensity and at it’s highest level they might find a true, deep love for this music and venture on from there.

Now.....getting back to the matter at hand...... I think it is a matter of how you define hard bop. I have a bit of a problem with this now as one of my projects The Cookers is constantly called hard bop (even hard bop icons). Now to me, hard bop starts with the Max Roach/Clifford Brown group and is defined by Art Blakey and the Jazz Messengers and Horace Silver. It evolves from there of course and what that turns to if we are playing the label the music game is where the trouble starts and is probably the point where Mr. Baraka and the like want to get off the train as things were evolving and changing and going in many different directions. There was the avant garde of course and John Coltrane and whatever the Miles Davis Quintet with Wayne, Herbie, Ron and Tony were doing. Plus the Blue Note guys Andrew Hill, Joe Henderson etc etc. I think at that particular time, a writer like Mr. Baraka might find the tried and true hard bop stuff becoming a little stale with this other stuff going on. But again, it goes back to your definition of hard bop. I've seen Mr. Baraka at many gigs I was on, Freddie Hubbard, Charles Tolliver, The Cookers and even perhaps the Lee Morgan tribute thing I do. So he certainly has a taste for whatever you call that next step, whatever hard bop evolved into and as these guys probably excited him in the '60s, they still seem to do it for him today. On a personal note, I've met Mr. Baraka several times and he has always been friendly with me. He is a fan of the music and for that, I'm appreciative. The same with Cornell West. He came to a Freddie Hubbard gig once and the hang after the gig with Freddie, Mr. West, Curtis Fuller and Javon Jackson was a lot of fun. He has a great sense of humor (as all those guys do) and knows the music.

And now there is video..... My link

Interesting http://espn.go.com/mlb/story/_/id/7480419/fausto-carmona-cleveland-indians-arrested-accused-using-false-identity

I actually changed planes in Detroit on my way home today and bought the paper in the airport to read on the plane. Beautiful piece and it was nice to see something like this get so much space in the paper.

Though not confirmed I've heard that Sam Rivers has passed away. This is a huge loss, to me he was one of the greatest ever.

I've spent Summers in Texas and Japan and I have to say Japan is much worse. Not hotter per se (and certainly nothing like this past Summer in Texas) but way more humid while being pretty hot as well. I never sweat as much as I did walking around Tokyo in July. So if this is your worry, I think he'll be OK......

The material you quote is about musical compositions, not sound recordings. I thought so....I just implied this was the case in my response but good to know this is the case. Also, the link he gave us to the Tony Fruscella copyright page had Fruscella as the one copyrighting said article so that would mean a composition not the recording as that would have been copyrighted by Atlantic Records I assume..... I'm glad the "legal" aspects of this debate have petered out but I have one remaining question as I don't really know much about blogging/web-site etiquette...... This Jazz Wax web-site that posted this interview removed all the negative comments about Jordi in the comments section but kept the positive ones. Is this normal or is this a bit of a breach of ethics for the sort of medium? I guess whoever did the piece and runs the web-site has the right to do whatever he wants but it does seem to be misrepresenting things a bit. That can't really be cool, can it?

I think this might be sort of besides the point.... The question is whether the CDs that are being released in Europe because they are after the 50 year period can legally be sold here, a country that does not have the 50 year expiration date so this stuff is still copyrighted here. I don't know the answer to that actually though I assume it is an issue. That you pay 3% on the transfer price to sell your CDs here might not address the question of it's legality here. Subject to copyright could mean legal copyright and then the question again is whether you can sell something in the US that according to US law is not legally copyrighted here. I don't know the answer. This is why we have copyright lawyers and also why most don't waste their time on this sort of thing because it is cost prohibitive for most to pursue and that only helps the likes of Jordi et al stay in business. Well, one thing you need to know is that copyright on material issued in the US issued before 1964 and after 1923 was copyright protected for 28 years from date of issue. That copyright was renewable for 28 years if an application was made in the year of its expiration and lodged at the Library of Congress. See where this is heading? Some stuff will never have been renewed, so copyright will have lapsed. And the rest, help me out, 2 x 28, I'm struggling... Do we care - well , not much, but more interesting than this thread is the catalogue where you can look up every single registration. Mad joy for the likes of us: http://www.copyright.gov/records/ What you say on previously unissued material such as extra tracks is kind of true but depends on recording date in relation to changes of law, so not as cut-and-dried as you think if you read the small print. What you say on international copyright is unworkable - copyright is national, period. National courts could not in practice enforce copyright laws of all other nations, any more than they would enforce property laws or any laws of other nations. Nice try. Are you a copyright attorney? There are reasons such a creature exists in the world and part of that reason is so one who actually needs expert advice on these issues can ask someone in the know instead of debating the issue with someone who has visited a few web-sites and thinks they have the definitive answers to these questions. You might think you know the definite, absolute answers to these things but I doubt you are correct in all these instances. The main issue with arguing the law in these instances is that no one has the time or resources to go after these people and challenge what you think are definite, clear cut laws. So the answer is, we'll never know for sure because there will never be a defining court case. Also, are you saying that any recording made between 1923 and 1955 is in public domain in the US now? Since you seem to enjoy doing this research, this link begs a certain question? What do you think you are looking at here? Is this a copyright on a sound recording or a copyright on a composition? Are there different laws regarding a copyright of a sound recording then a copyright on a composition? Different "expiration" dates?

But you'd not want to, because you'd have a contract with Roulette and a steady gig at Birdland with access to fairly chep dope. Might not be a big boat, but why rock it? Actually, Mingus did speak up albeit not as precisely in public...remember his "gangsters run jazz" comment? Hell, gangsters (of some form or fashion) run damn near everything. All praise be to gangsters, for they give us our lives! You might have a point Jim I guess the gangsters are still running things but it is certainly a different sort of gangster these days. I'd like to know too, but I assume they wouldn't, no more than would EMI Europe. Do you pay money you don't owe? They are paying....like I said earlier, they believe their contract with the artist trumps the copyright laws. I don't believe EMI Europe presses their own copies of say Blue Note reissues, they just import the American pressings. I guess if they decide to stop importing these and press their own copies so they don't have to pay royalties to the artists then you will have made your point.

One last point..... I own a lot of these CDs as well and am happy to have them in my collection. If this makes me a bit of a hypocrite so be it but I know what these things are and I'm not pretending they are something else or that the person selling them to me is something else. Like Jim said, a drug dealer knows what he is and they usually don't do interviews saying they are providing an important service (though some do think they are saving the world I guess). Clearly none of this is going to change and if it does, it will probably be for the worse for the musician but that's the way it is and we learn to deal with it. It's just problematic when one of the less ethical characters in this business (though one who does love and know the music) does an interview and is lauded as a savior. There is going to be a bit of a backlash to that..... Fortunately, in this instance at least, I don't live in the times when the likes of Morris Levy walked the Earth as surely then I would have gotten my ass kicked for speaking up like this.

I think this is wrong as well.... Do you really think EMI Japan stops paying Blue Note artists royalties the day the 50 years is up? I'm absolutely certain this is not the case but am happy to make some phone calls to double check. Do you think Sony Japan has stopped paying the Miles Davis estate royalties on Kind of Blue? Please find a way to prove that..... I'm not a fan of record companies but this is a little too much for me to swallow. It might be the companies feel their agreements with the artists trump the copyright laws and might even have enough of a conscience to say if we're still selling it, we're still going to pay royalties on it. True, they will put remastering costs against future royalties but they will also pay said royalties....

I think this might be sort of besides the point.... The question is whether the CDs that are being released in Europe because they are after the 50 year period can legally be sold here, a country that does not have the 50 year expiration date so this stuff is still copyrighted here. I don't know the answer to that actually though I assume it is an issue. That you pay 3% on the transfer price to sell your CDs here might not address the question of it's legality here. Subject to copyright could mean legal copyright and then the question again is whether you can sell something in the US that according to US law is not legally copyrighted here. I don't know the answer. This is why we have copyright lawyers and also why most don't waste their time on this sort of thing because it is cost prohibitive for most to pursue and that only helps the likes of Jordi et al stay in business.

This is becoming pretty interesting....... I must say a lot of people are making some pretty bold proclamations about copyright laws based on some perfunctory research. Without getting too much into right and wrong, let me try to make some points. The biggest overall point to me is this. Is it right for other countries to create different copyright laws for music recorded and produced in the United States. Especially laws that take the rights of said music away from the artist earlier then the law in the land in which it is created. There are plenty of laws out there that if skated around properly (or perhaps you don't even have do that much skating) can almost bring around the demise of a country (our banks anyone?). Just because this is about much smaller fish and a lot less money doesn't mean the principle of the law and those who take advantage of it suck. It's wrong, plain and simple but I guess this is besides the point. OK, that wasn't much of a point...but here are some points I would like to make. Yes, Jordi is the poster child for this sort of stuff because unlike the other producers of this sort of material, he is out there doing interviews saying he is saving jazz for us all. The rest probably know what they are doing is shady at best and know to just crank the shit out and not have a public profile. Jordi has clearly issued stuff before the 50 year "expiration date" before All the live sessions he has released are unauthorized. He might have purchased the tapes from someone but for them to be legitimate, he would have to contact the leader of said date (or their estates) and have them agree (for a fee ideally) to have the stuff released. He would also have to pay the sidemen or their estates. He has not done that. Another thing I've been told numerous times about this 50 year copyright law is this. It is a copyright on the recording. In other words, if there are alternate takes from a session that were just released for the first time on CD in 1990 whatever, that is the original copyright for that material and it has 50 years from that date, the year it was released and copyrighted. I've been told that this was the loophole Blue Note et al could definitively go after Jordi for but in the end they decided it wasn't worth it. So, the stuff issued with alternates takes that first just saw the light of day in the CD era? Nope, no good. This would probably go for the unreleased Atlantic Frussella date as well. It is owned by Atlantic Records. Something in their vaults that has been unreleased does not fall under this 50 year copyright law so again, probably illegal. I also have a lot of trouble with Myers taking down comments critical of Jordi. I also have a problem with his saying (without citing anyone) that most musicians from that era have no problem with Jordi reissuing their stuff without a dime going to them (without even the legality issue being part of the equation). I will say this though, it is extremely flattering for someone to call you and say how much they love your music (backed with some real knowledge of said music) and that they want to release it or give you your proper due or whatever and again, I believe Jordi truly loves the music he is releasing but when the dust settles and the flattery wears off and Jordi has reissued your album and has sold a few and hasn't given you a dime and you could actually use a couple of bucks etc etc, do you think all these guys are thrilled about this? OK, so maybe I got into right and wrong a little bit.....

I can't say for sure but judging from the personnel, this Ascension gig is probably the work of the infamous, banned Organissimo member youmustbe......

I worked pretty closely with Jordi for a number of years. I recorded 4 CDs for him and produced another 10 or so for him. I've spent plenty of time in his office in Barcelona and seen the "walls" of reel to reel tapes. Knowing all of that still can't help me give you that much of a clearer picture about all this. I know Jordi has legitimately acquired some labels (Nocturne) so some of his reissues are legit. Others he might have thought he acquired legally but did not (Vee Jay). Other things he did license legitimately. Other things he certainly did not. The live tapes is another issue. If I am to believe him, at the start he thought his buying the tapes from an estate or a club owner meant he legitimately owned them. Later on, he did ask me for the contact information for Cannonball's widow and Lee's widow because he said he wanted to pay them something. I'm pretty sure he never did. I didn't know him during the vinyl era but most of those couldn't be legitimate. Pacific Jazz vinyl? No way..... I want to also say that he is a real fan of the music and also had some real knowledge of the music. He also had a good ear and good instincts for talent though he did rely on a few people to help him in this area. He was always a good host when I was in Spain so he could give the appearance of being a good guy, knowledgeable about the music and a great fan. Business wise......well..... The main conversation we had over the years was the just because it is legal there doesn't make it right talk. We had this conversation many times. He also always swore the other fringe labels were not him (the Andorrans etc etc). He always claimed how can it be me, none of them have the attention to detail I have. When one of them put out a Mingus CD that was a direct copy of that great Uptown set of his early stuff I told him that was pretty fucked up. It was on the Absolute web-site and he claimed they just distribute this stuff etc etc. I told him, this particular one was such a blatant breach and that if you are as honorable as you say, get that CD removed from the web-site. I told him it would be better for him as well, that he already had a bad reputation about this stuff and the presence of this CD on a web-site associated with him would just cement his horrible reputation. I can't honestly remember if he did anything about it or not. In the end, we parted ways. I have not talked to him in at least 5 years or more. He did I guess what most would expect of someone of his ilk to do, he stopped paying me and still owes me money. This interview didn't bother me that much but I have to admit that the reason I get pissed about stuff he says in print is a little more self-centered and has more to do with the New Talent stuff. He makes it sound like he discovered all the people he recorded and that sticks in my craw a little though I guess this is pretty typical and not so egregious though I am a bit of a credit where credit is due sort of guy.

I'm pretty certain that when Miles puts his finger to his ear, it is a cue to the soundman that he is not hearing himself as much as he would like and to turn up the monitors or perhaps even the house speakers. As a trumpet player, I am keenly aware, when watching live videos, of trumpet players trying to get their monitors turned up (they all do it, some more subtle then others).

This is a tough one for me. I thought I should probably just stay out of it but some more info might give you guys some perspective. University of the Streets had jam sessions every weekend and when I first moved make to New York, this was one of the jam sessions I frequented. I got to play with C Sharp, Tommy Turrentine, Frank Gant, Jimmy Lovelace and many others then. A lot of guys who were on one or two records you would know were around then as well. I can't think of many off the top of my head but the likes of Jimmy Robinson (the trumpet player on Dexter's Blows Hot and Cool I think) was the type that hung out here. Later on Jimmy Vass ran the session then George Braith. Me and George called it the gym, we went there to get (or stay) in shape. The guy who ran it all, Muhammad, was a very sweet guy and was very supportive of me. He would let me use the space sometimes to rehearse and always encouraged me to use the space to teach or put on a concert but we never really followed through with that. Things changed after he died and I don't want to get too into that. Let's just say it's not the same but how could it, this guy had such a presence and was such the force behind the place. I've heard about the $50 pay to play policy that is now in effect. I will say this much. I have to assume the band knew about said policy. I can also venture a guess (with no real knowledge) that the band could have quite possibly acted like idiots. What I read of "managements" response to this actually read quite reasonable until the classic "THE BAND-MEMBER'S FACE CONNECTED WITH THE ATTENDEES HAND. UNFORTUNATELY, BECAUSE MR. SHEA WAS WEARING NON-SAFETY TYPE SUNGLASSES, A SMALL INJURY OCCURRED". . This is hilarious of course and makes them lose all credibility. I can however see a scenario where spoiled young musicians don't think they have to pay the $50 and act like idiots and one of them gets clocked in the face for their efforts. They then mount a viral campaign to boycott the place. I'd say they are both wrong but the biggest problem is the violence. There is no place in all this for that at all but I do understand the impulse to deck a kid who is acting up like this. We just don't act on those impulses of course. This is all unfortunate to me. It's sad to see this place I valued so much at one point in my life get infamous for this incident.

When Budd was older, he taught at Queens College and directed the "jazz ensemble". There wasn't much of a jazz program then and certainly not enough musicians for a big band. I think I was in high school still (a senior probably) and just sitting in on the class trying to get experience. He was pretty nice about it (I don't think he even cared whether I supposed to be there or not). He bought in some nice arrangements he wrote on some standards and even some modal tunes like Maiden Voyage. He was getting up there and was usually pretty cranky. He would count off a tune and then sit down a take a hit from the fifth of whatever he had in his pocket and listen to us destroy his arrangements. If it got real bad he would jump up and cut us off (once dropping his bottle which pissed him off more). Sometimes he would pick up a horn (I can't remember if he bought his own or would just grab a student's) and count off the band again and take a few choruses of the most burning tenor I had ever heard up to that point in my young life. I was amazed at the ease and dexterity of his playing. I think he told us that he was not allowed to play anymore because of a heart condition (I assume he wasn't supposed to drink either). After a few months, I got bold enough to ask him if I could solo on a tune (Confirmation in Eb if I recall correctly). He scoffed at me and said really but let me play. I scuffled through but after that he was much nicer to me. Don't get me wrong, he was grumpy but of course also quite sweet. I think it was my first exposure to a real jazz musician and I'll never forget him.

Another one from the Hubbard archives..... Nice line-up for LA.....

The free beer is a nice touch......

Up for price reductions.....

Everything has shipped. Thanks guys.

Up for many new additions......

Yes, the Pasqua is good, I might keep it anyways..... Kevin, I can hook you up but I have a little favor to ask as well. I've PMed you