david weiss

But that's just it, isn't it? Edits and such are made all the time and the only reason one would know about it with live material like this is of a previous bootleg version exists. If one listened to this fresh without the knowledge of edits, would it be a great listening experience? Dare I suggest even better perhaps? What if the artist approved the edits or approved the edited tracks? Clearly there is a bigger picture involved here and I really can't make a judgement about it. Would I prefer unedited music myself? Probably Am I the person these labels are producing music for? Probably not If you made a big expensive box set and needed to recoup your expenses, would you go out on a limb (rightly or wrongly) to try to make it a tighter, more concise and perhaps a more enjoyable listening experience for the average listener? The edits are pretty seamless I think.... Here are some things I do know for sure after working on a few of these things. 1. Vinyl is king again. Vinyl sells more then CDs now. Any decisions about length and such are dictated by vinyl now, 2. The music has to be the same on all formats so no edits on one format and unedited on the other formats.

Question... What makes you think Arnhem was a radio broadcast? Also, it seems like 2 tunes on the same tape would be at different speeds so it seems +38 cents to fix "Sonnymoon", +24 cents to fix "Love Walked In is all about the tape speed it accurate. Also, 38 cents flat is not even a quarter tone flat so still closer to Bb then A though clearly out of tune.

I don't agree. It is definitely flat but not by this much. On my software, if 1 is a full semitone, I had the raise the pitch about .3 to bring it into tune. Still unfortunate but probably not detectable to anyone who is not playing along with an instrument.... Yes, very wet but it's on the original recording. Can't undo wet.

Whew! I thought I might have to give you $15 if you didn't like it.

We'll take pictures.... The Cookers are recording there next week for two days. The Speak No Evil out takes (most of them) were included in the Blue Note 75th anniversary Japanese reissue of the album if you can find it. They're great. Just Coolin' is in stereo.

I've heard various stories. It depended on the artist, the producer or the label. He could certainly be talked into things especially if he liked you. I've known guys that have gotten him to pull out old mics and yes, mic the bass (but in my case, keep the direct as well).

For better or worse, Rudy was an equipment geek and liked to keep current and embraced new technologies, including cassette players apparently. By the time I recorded there in 1992 or 93, we recorded digital and he used a bass direct and such. It was a bit of a disappointment. He did send us home with a reference cassette though.... I'll be recording there next week by the way....

Hey Dan, I'm not sure what the source of your Blakey session tapes were but if they were stereo, it would be major stereo separation, hard pans left and right for the horns, it would be clear. It would be this or mono. Perhaps you should listen to a sample of the new release on line and compare if you like. I'm not sure what you mean about different peaks. I can't go too much into detail but I'm told by more then one person that the source of these were Alfred's sessions reels from where ever they wound up plus I've listened to these as well and they are mono. I also don't want to get too deep into, let's say, Belden's proclivities regarding the distribution of the tapes but I was working with him then. His entree into the vaults was my telling him about record shows and rappers and DJs and such shopping for vinyl looking for beats. He formulated the Rare Groove Series and was allowed into the vaults to find unreleased groove stuff to release. There was plenty. While there, he ordered a bunch of other stuff up he had been dying for years to hear. Just based on Belden's taste and priorities I can tell you he started by listening to anything unreleased that had Herbie Hancock on it and after that, Grant Green and maybe Larry Young. Those were his favorites. He also was trying to get every album any of those guys every played on and would give me lists in case I saw one when shopping for vinyl myself.... So, do the math. I was there when he came back from LA and we had listening sessions. He wasn't that interested in the Art Blakey session so he was never the source for this. The KD date had Grant Green on it but I don't recall him ever mentioning he had this or him playing for me. But Speak No Evil out takes, Unity out takes, Solid out takes, unreleased Shorter date, unreleased Tyrone Washington date? Yup. And then a few tracks of other things here and there. Aborted Herbie date (the one tune that wound up on the Herbie box) and some break downs and false starts from some of his favorite dates, yup. He didn't circulate any of this stuff for the longest time. I got copies of a few things because I was working for him but at some point, partially out of his general frustration with the music business and such, he started sharing some of this stuff with some of his friends and I guess it blew up. When that Joe Louis guy posted all that stuff on youtube, some of that stuff probably could be traced back to Beldon since he was the only source but most of it was from elsewhere. I don't know who. Belden also was not a huge collector of live tapes except for Miles, Herbie, Wayne and Grant Green essentially... He didn't seek it out at least. I hope this clears a few things up.... Kind of what I thought. Thanks for clarifying Chuck. So he still had an extra machine at Englewood Cliffs? But only Coltrane took home copies? I always wondered if Larry Young took home a copy of Mother Ship but I guess not. Blue World was not in the Universal stash, nor at Ravi's, correct, the only copy was in Canada? Who took what home depended on the artist and the label. Coltrane took tapes home as did Miles Davis. Others, I don't know about. Blue Note was in a way producer driven, they were making the decisions (with artist feedback at times) so Alfred took the tapes home. I'm talking the reel to reel years. Once cassettes became the norm and then digital, this dynamic changed, easier to make more copies so more people could bring stuff home to listen to if they wanted to. A number of Coltrane things have seen the light of day because of the session reels Coltrane took home but there have been other sources as well....

I thought two of the alternates (I would have to go back to my notes to remember which) were pretty close to the chosen masters and worthy of release and one other decent enough. The problem is that with the reemergence of vinyl, vinyl is now the priority so no more bonus CD tracks. They would have had to include them on the vinyl and make it a 2 record set to include alternates and while I am not privy to the thought process, I assumed they did not want to do that (expense probably) plus the bonuses would have probably been in mono.

I thought I'd try to clear a few things up for you.... The CD was mastered by Bernie Grundman. I thought he did a great job. I don't know when, but at some point, the master takes were chosen and an order was assembled and the CD and LP were mastered from that source but I believe the order as it was originally assembled, was changed for this release. Also, the full session that was circulating among some of you was not from the Blue Note vaults, A second machine was run at the same time and at least in this time period, at a slower speed and in mono. These were copies made for Alfred Lion to take home and listen to. These tapes have a different home now and this one got out somehow and circulated. The sound quality is fine but it is in mono. I listened to these as well as at one point, we were contemplating adding bonus tracks to this release. I have to say that while I am a fan of mono, when I first heard the stereo masters, this record sounded a whole lot better to me, it kind of came to life. Some of this is Grundman's mastering of course. And yes, to me Lee is the star of this session, he sounds great. When I first told Cuscuna I thought the date was not bad, he said, aw, you're just a trumpet player, meaning, I assume, that I was just taken in by Lee's playing.

Actually, this is a label run by Cory Weeds, a sax player who has been presenting jazz in Vancouver for years. I believe he has a label called Cellar Live that has recorded many CDs over the past few years and Reel to Real is the archival wing I guess. Yes, Zev Feldman is involved with getting the live recordings he is releasing but I'm pretty certain the label is Cory's and he deserves the credit.

To be clear, I was talking about Atlantis the album, not the specific tune and again, while Twin Dragon stylistically fits right in with every other tune on the album, I hear no part of the melody showing up on any of the tunes on Atlantis. At least I don't recall this to be true, it's been a while since I worked on this music but just singing Twin Dragon in my head now tells me there is nothing there I have heard elsewhere in any of the other tunes on Atlantis. I would need to take a deeper dive into the tunes he wrote for Weather Report to really give you a complete answer there but a lot of this has more to do with the band performing the music then what was written.

To me, it just sounds like another tune written during the same period that just didn't make it onto the album. Nice tune, totally in the style of the other tunes on the album. I don't recall any parts of the tune being used elsewhere later on....

Not really, actually hardly at all. He uses the same 3 note melody fragment that is in Universe and Sanctuary on one of the tunes here and on another tune, there is another melody fragment that has something in common with a few notes from Universe and Sanctuary. Other then that, there is nothing in common. I believe the tunes on the unreleased session are probably sketches at best and perhaps a few chord changes written out while Universe is essentially through composed.

I believe Lenny White and Buster Williams are on it among others. Recorded in the UK while on tour there last Fall.

It's a bootleg and it's actually from the Both/And (same tour though). I vetted these tapes a while back. There is more then just these three tracks. It's decently recorded and it's all killing....

I have the bootleg, it came out first, and there are a few tunes on that CD that are not on the official release and vice a versa. It's all amazing stuff.....

Thanks... I guess they should have coordinated answers or something though.... Kevin's explanation implies that these tapes weren't handled correctly at some point and from my experience, which is admittedly limited, this is certainly not the case.... Some well respected engineers I know actually like the vintage Scotch tape mentioned above as well....

I haven't been following this too closely but I have a question for you guys.... Is this the same guy who went on this same thread on the Hoffman forum earlier and said he didn't hear the issue in question or that there was nothing there? I know some engineers that would have a different opinion then this...

Perhaps donate them to Down Beat. I was told years ago their archives were flooded so they might want to have a complete collection again or perhaps they are relieved they don't have to deal with maintaining an archive...

I believe pubic domain has to do with when the recordings have been released, not when they were recorded..... I'm sure Rudy did record this on a proper machine with proper tape etc etc... Rudy ran this machine as a back up to give people tapes to take home (at least for Coltrane and Alfred Lion as far as I know).... So, tapes that have been lost are rediscovered when someone associated with someone who was important enough to take home tapes from Rudy find the tapes. Most of the Coltrane stuff comes from the family though I'm told there have been other sources. I'm working on something now that involves one of these types of tape. Even with the slower speed and such, they sound great.

Give me an e-mail address and I'll forward it to you.

It's in 9 but it's not a usual subdivision of 9 which is usually 3,3,3 I guess.... It's usually 4,1, 4 but in one section it's more 4,4,1. I kind of have a soft spot for this version but listening to it now, it sounds tame compared to how we play it live.... Whoever asked about Capra Black, I can hook you up with a lead sheet of sorts for that if you are still curious....

I thought they were printing unsubstantiated rumors without doing any investigating at all at first and it was very harmful to the process at the beginning of this campaign, casting doubt as to the validity of the page and putting doubt into the minds of people who wanted to donate. I had an issue with that. They did recover and print a correction early on and have since published a long letter from Kenny going into all the details of their issues. I found it sad that Kenny had to take the time to go into such personal detail about his issues. That couldn't have been easy for him. I see the same doubts expressed here and are continuing. I find that unfortunate as well.... I know there is a hunger for content and not much budget to investigate things but to print articles where sources are pulled from the comments section on the gofundme page or going further back (and a personal issue for me) comments on this very board that were used as "news." It's troubling to me.... Sorry Ted, missed this one.... Exactly, no investigation though the post I had issue was the one where they expressed concern about the validity of the campaign and their source I believe was the doubt expressed in the comments section of the gofundme page and apparently nothing else. That is not journalism by any means...

What do you consider investigative journalism here?