BFT # 18 - Disc 2

[mikeweil]

I'm still trying to figure out why in the world such a beautiful instrumental (#22) got stuck on as a CD bonus track onto a vocalese disc. Did it come from the same sessions that produced those vocal tracks? Anyway, neither the Fantasy site (nor their printed catalog) nor AMG mentions this track in any detail in their descriptions- including telling us who played on it.

On this session they recorded two vocalese track by King Pleasure and two instrumentals by the same band and arranger that were used as B-sides for the single releases, but left off when these tracks were reissued on 10-inch and later 12-inch LPs. A later "Historical Series" Prestige LP 7586 and a 1970's twofer LP which collected all of King Pleasure's Prestige sides were the only LP issues, and even the first Original Jazz Classics CD version left them off. The newly edited OJC CD available now has them, though. But this is the reason they are not as widely known as the vocal sides.

The answers coming later this week will give details.

[king ubu]

Well, finally had some time to listen to disc 2:

#1 - Great opener! Have the feeling I should know it... Love the way the drummer drives that band! In such a light way. Nice tenor.

#2 - Piano sounds familiar. Anotehr very nice score. Love the bari-heavy ensembles on both tracks! Could this be Bobby Timmons? (Only have some of his trio recordings.) Wynton Kelly?

#3 - Kansas City swing thing? Freddie-Green-like guitar. Who could this be? No idea. Sounds a bit like Illinois on barisax. Leo Parker?

Too lazy to check what tune this is, but I think I have that somewhere in a different version.

#4 - Similar, yet a bit more, what, "modern"? Nice sweet clarinet, fat Satchmo-styled trumpet, I suppose I ought to recognize several of these musicians. A Teddy Wilson side with Billie sitting out? Guess not...

#5 - Sounds familiar, but after a repeated listen, I can't tell. Like the singer alright (checked the few Helen Humes sides I have, not there, ain't sure it's her). Alto sounds a bit like Hodges (could as well be Willie Smith - if Bud Shank can hear similarity, I might as well mix them up...). Then tehre's that nice, slightly-distorted and too-loud-in-the-"mix" guitar (probably having his amplifier a bit too close to the microphone...). Like it!

#6 - Lunceford? Hell, I know this! Jay McShann! Yup, that one I have on some CD, but don't have that with me. Here's that alto solo! Now is this Bird, or is taht the tune the liner notes writer of the Decca CD is not sure who it is? "Swingmatism"? Love this one! Great music!

#7 - Forties afro cuban bop? Sounds very familiar. The trombone's a bit rough, the alto a bit sweet... like the percussion solo! (What is this, timbales?)

#8 - That's the Kenny Clarke tune turned into "Tenor Madness". Is this the early version with Fats Navarro? Hey, there's a second trumpet? Nice! Hawk on tenor?

#9 - Don't know this one. Like it, though. The tune sounds familiar, but I can't name it. Very nice one!

#10 - Oscar Pettiford, I assume? Then who's playing the second cello? Or is this overdubbed? Or pre-overdub era? No idea, to be honest.

#11 - A nice one! Big sound! Not very early Rollins? Sound a bit like Lateef... don't know.

#12 - Finally some doorbells... pre-Bags? No idea. Like the piano.

#13 - Now here's some smooth Charlie Christian styled guitar, not the rough r'n'b sound from #5. Is this a Tal Farlow side? Will ahve to get that Mosaic, but not now...

#14 - Is this "I'll remember April"? I always mix up the titles of standards. Nice one, but no idea. Lie the samba (?) beat a lot here!

#15 - Another nice one. Like the sparse setting with piano out during the guitar solo. Also very nice soft drumming. Great!

#16 - Not sure about this one. Second go. Is this a retro thing, or two old guys doing what they did way back in the days when they were young? Not too fond of this screaming tenor...

#17 - Strange, I'm not very fond of this, yet I played it three times before continuing with...

#18 - ... which also is not my favourite track of the CD. Nice swinging here, though.

#19 - More of the screaming stuff. Nice one this time. Not Jacquet?

#20 - Nice sequencing. Not the music I listen to, but I like it alright.

#21 - Latin doorbells. Maybe a bit too nice, but still I ought to get more of this kind of music.

#22 - This one's nice! The trombone is great, has a haunting sound. So has the tenor. West coast? Walter Benton?

#23 - Some more vocalese to end. Not Hendricks this time, I suppose. Nice one, groovy! Another good drummer here! A strong ending, two good tracks after a couple ones I wasn't too fond of.

*********

Mike, many many thanks for compiling these enjoable discs!

ubu

[mikeweil]

Re: # 4: You are all still far off with this countless tune.

Very funny to read what you all think it could be ...

[king ubu]

Re: # 4: You are all still far off with this countless tune.

Very funny to read what you all think it could be ...

At least I did recognize McShann (AND guess the tune right), as well as the Navarro/Clarke track (though I forgot KD was there as well).

No idea about #4 but after reading the comments made by others, I'm sure I'm completely off track.

Now about that S.F. Fantasy disc, I had a listen to it in a store when it was new, but forgot to note it so I'd be able to remember buying it later. A very nice compilation/reissue!

[king ubu]

Maurice Simon?

[couw]

Re: # 4: You are all still far off with this countless tune.

Very funny to read what you all think it could be ...

I think it could be any dance band from the time, possibly with a "famous" clarinet soloist sitting in.

[king ubu]

Re: # 4: You are all still far off with this countless tune.

Very funny to read what you all think it could be ...

I think it could be any dance band from the time, possibly with a "famous" clarinet soloist sitting in.

Südfunk Tanzorchester dir. Erwin Lehn? now the only one we miss is the clarinet soloist...

Simon is a name for #3, by the way. Not strong on it, just thought I'd throw in his name.

ubu

[mikeweil]

Maurice Simon?

Another shot into the blue ..... (re # 3).

Okay, another clue: The clarinetist on # 4 is not the leader. All except the pianist were members of the same band at the time, and that was not any dance band!

Edited October 18, 2004 by mikeweil

[king ubu]

Okay, another clue: The clarinetist on # 4 is not the leader. All except the pianist were members of the same band at the time, and that was not any dance band!

So if it wasn't any dance band it still was a dance band?

[mikeweil]

Every big band at that time was a dance band!

[king ubu]

Every big band at that time was a dance band!

that's what I expected as a reply... too late to delete my stoopid post now.

[JSngry]

Is that Charlie Shavers on #4?

[Big Al]

WAAIIITTTT a second!!!! Mike's trying to trick us here, I betcha: the OTHER mystery player on three tracks is Cal Tjader, but on ONE track he's playing DRUMS!!!! I'm gonna guess that ONE of these tracks is probably from that Brubeck Octet record which I don't own, but lists Tjader on drums.

So, WHICH IS IT????????? AIEEEEEEEE!!!!!!

Was I right about this?

[JSngry]

#4 fascinates. Obviously a "swing to bop" configuration". Note how the clarinetist doesn't even attempt to deal with the chromatic thing. The trumpeter doesn't either, but he's using lots of passing tones in his solo. The tenor player eats it ALL up, and the pianist just gets the bridge.

There's also the walking bass and the comp of the piano. I'm guessing that this was recorded for one of the small indie labels that settled w/the AFM before the majors did in when, 1944?. It's definitely got that "in-between" stylistic thing going on. In fact, I could almost guess a very early Lucjy Thompson as the tenorist, but I have no idea who it would be with, especially since everybody but the ppianist was in the same band when this was recorded. The tone's not quite "hard" enough to be Byas (but maybe this is earlier Byas than I know...), the accents are not regular enough to be Hawk, and Chu Berry didn't live into the era. Maybe it's somebody like Georgie Auld in his early days, but the tone sounds a little bit like some very early Lucky that I've heard once or twice.

Hey - I'm stumped w/o some more hints. But the more I listen to this one, the more fascinating it gets. That chromatic thing in the A-section really is really a trip, as is the way that the tenor player seems to love it and everybody else just sort of finds a way around it. Shades of Mintons!

Which would suggest Byas...

[Big Al]

Forgot to mention- Guaraldi has to be the mystery pianist- #12, 13, and 21 (thanks for the helpful clues, Mike ).

A tip o' the hat to Nate Dorward, who said of #12: "I get the feeling we may have heard the pianist several times during the BFT"

You're right Jim, Vince Guaraldi is the piansit appearing on disc 2 three times, on the tracks you listed.

Oh sure, give JIM the credit for something I discovered a few posts before HE did!!!

Well, I think it was before him: the difference in time zones may have made it LOOK like he discovered it before I did, but in fact I made this discovery three weeks ago, whereas HIS discovery actually won’t happen until Tuesday, November 16. Like I said, because of the different time zones, it just APPEARS that he discovered it before me!

Unless of course I’m wrong, in which case he got it first, and I was just merely following suit! (He always was a better dresser than me!)

[catesta]

WOW!!!!

What a collection!

A brain teaser if ever I've heard one. At the start of each tune I would say to myself, "Oh hell, I know that one" as it turns out, I don't know sheeat. They only got more difficult as the cd played on.

The disc remined me of what was coming out of my dad's speakers on a Sunday afternoons. I'll be making him a copy of this one fore sure. Nice piece of work, Mike. B-) I could use about a month to try and nail some of these down.

1.Should be obvious, but it's not. My likey, me likey a lot.

Thought I was hearing Stan Getz, but that ain't close. Could be James Moody, maybe even Paul Gonsalves.

2. What a beauty! Reminds me of the forst track, but only different.

I wanted to say the piano was that of Oscar Peterson, but I won't.

3. Nice baritone, nice tune, nice arrangement no guess.

4. Could it be Artie Shaw?

5. "Blues on My Weary Mind" This got some Johnny Hodges going on in here. Trumpet? Not quite Cootie Williams. AMG makes me think this.

It's ugly from here on out.

6. Thought Duke, but thought again.

7. Nice beat, no idea.

8. No real guess, Teddy Wilson on piano? Dizzy? Liked it very much.

9. Violin leaves me clueless. It's not Ray Nance.

10. Not much for me to go on here.

11. A real swinger.

12. Milt Jackson???

13. I don't know why, but the tune that came to mind and sticks there is "Skating".

14. No clue.

15. Herb Ellis perhaps.

16. ?????

17. This one might be Hamp, but what the hell do I know. Nothing obviously and I'm running out of vibe player guesses. Nice piece though.

18. Short on violin knowledge, might be a Grappelli effort.

19-21, great music, no educated guesses.

22. Very relaxed, sure does sound like it could be Ben Webster.

23. Don't know.

Edited October 18, 2004 by catesta

[Jim R]

Forgot to mention- Guaraldi has to be the mystery pianist- #12, 13, and 21 (thanks for the helpful clues, Mike ).

A tip o' the hat to Nate Dorward, who said of #12: "I get the feeling we may have heard the pianist several times during the BFT"

You're right Jim, Vince Guaraldi is the piansit appearing on disc 2 three times, on the tracks you listed.

Oh sure, give JIM the credit for something I discovered a few posts before HE did!!!

Well, I think it was before him: the difference in time zones may have made it LOOK like he discovered it before I did, but in fact I made this discovery three weeks ago, whereas HIS discovery actually won’t happen until Tuesday, November 16. Like I said, because of the different time zones, it just APPEARS that he discovered it before me!

Unless of course I’m wrong, in which case he got it first, and I was just merely following suit! (He always was a better dresser than me!)

Al, I understood that entire post (although I'm not sure anybody else did), except for the part about the suit. Do I need to call a lawyer? ... and since when are you such an expert on Vince GuarALdi and cAL Tjader?

Edited October 18, 2004 by Jim R

[Jim R]

WAAIIITTTT a second!!!! Mike's trying to trick us here, I betcha: the OTHER mystery player on three tracks is Cal Tjader, but on ONE track he's playing DRUMS!!!! I'm gonna guess that ONE of these tracks is probably from that Brubeck Octet record which I don't own, but lists Tjader on drums.

So, WHICH IS IT????????? AIEEEEEEEE!!!!!!      

Was I right about this?

Yeah... was he right about this? And where did Mike go? I feel like we're bein' iced here...

=====

Mike, I gotta ask you to confirm something here... you said that Guaraldi plays on three tracks- 12, 13 and 21, and that the album from which #15 was taken is listed on one of those Guaraldi sites. But Guaraldi's not on #15? Are you sure you didn't mean that #12 (and not 15) is listed on one of those sites? I only ask because 12, like 15 is still unsolved, and I thought you might have confused the two in terms of the hints you've given. I know that a Guaraldi-less track could be found on one of those albums on the Guaraldi pages, but I just thought I'd make sure you had your facts straight... B-)

[mikeweil]

Use your brains, my friends. If Guaraldi does not play on # 15, but the LP is listed on one or both of the Guaraldi sites, hat the hell does it mean?!!! He does not play on everytrack of every LP, does he?

[mikeweil]

Oh sure, give JIM the credit for something I discovered a few posts before HE did!!!

Please apologize in case I gave someone credit for a score he doesn't deserve, these times zones get me mixed up!!!

[Jim R]

I'll go ahead and take that as confirmation. Sheesh, where's the FUCK YOU smiley when we really need it? Oh, hold on a sec, I know... (that's not a thumb)

Back to work...

[mikeweil]

#4 fascinates. Obviously a "swing to bop" configuration". Note how the clarinetist doesn't even attempt to deal with the chromatic thing. The trumpeter doesn't either, but he's using lots of passing tones in his solo. The tenor player eats it ALL up, and the pianist just gets the bridge.

There's also the walking bass and the comp of the piano. I'm guessing that this was recorded for one of the small indie labels that settled w/the AFM before the majors did in when, 1944?. It's definitely got that "in-between" stylistic thing going on. In fact, I could almost guess a very early Lucky Thompson as the tenorist, but I have no idea who it would be with, especially since everybody but the pianist was in the same band when this was recorded. The tone's not quite "hard" enough to be Byas (but maybe this is earlier Byas than I know...), the accents are not regular enough to be Hawk, and Chu Berry didn't live into the era. Maybe it's somebody like Georgie Auld in his early days, but the tone sounds a little bit like some very early Lucky that I've heard once or twice.

Hey - I'm stumped w/o some more hints. But the more I listen to this one, the more fascinating it gets. That chromatic thing in the A-section really is really a trip, as is the way that the tenor player seems to love it and everybody else just sort of finds a way around it. Shades of Mintons!

Which would suggest Byas...

This is closer than you think: I knew mastersaxbrain Sangrey would get this sooner or later. Think of my original clue, that it is a countless tune, and you will be more lucky ....

p.s. no shaving here either, but the label indeed was a California indie ...

[mikeweil]

WAAIIITTTT a second!!!! Mike's trying to trick us here, I betcha: the OTHER mystery player on three tracks is Cal Tjader, but on ONE track he's playing DRUMS!!!! I'm gonna guess that ONE of these tracks is probably from that Brubeck Octet record which I don't own, but lists Tjader on drums.

So, WHICH IS IT????????? AIEEEEEEEE!!!!!!      

Was I right about this?

Well, yes and no ..... no Brubeck here.

[Big Al]

Oh sure, give JIM the credit for something I discovered a few posts before HE did!!!  

Please apologize in case I gave someone credit for a score he doesn't deserve, these times zones get me mixed up!!!

I apologize! I gotta take points where I can get ‘em! And anyhow, Jim did post those groovy Guaraldi websites (which are gonna break me along with the rest of this BFT), so he really should get all the credit!

And you still haven’t answered my question: Tjader or NOT Tjader? (Whoops! It looks like we were posting at the same time.)

I’d use my brain if I had any left, at this point. I’m almost to the point of guessing Guaraldi playing sax on track #4, just to clear things up!

Edited October 18, 2004 by Big Al

[mikeweil]

I think I have had enough fun and will prepare the answers - I strongly presume this will get your affirmation.

The only track where really nothing, absolutely nothing was guessed, is that piano trio of "I'll remember April" - # 14 - you will all fall off your chairs when you get the solution.

# 12, 7, and 9 are probably known to insiders only.

A million thanks my friends, you were giving me plenty of hours filled with ROTFLMAO ......