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#61 Harold_Z

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Posted 10 April 2005 - 06:14 PM

FWIW, I was just trying to explain KD's antipathy towards the Baby Face side.

Myself, I dig KD & BF both. Different bags, obviously, but there's a place for all of it in my world.

Same here.

#62 Soul Stream

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Posted 10 April 2005 - 11:27 PM

The problem with Jimmy Smith's invention of the B3 style in the 50's, is that it swings and is bluesy. No matter how harmonically inventive JOS and crew get, it's just lumped together by the "blue bloods of jazz" as crap.

Except Larry Young. People bow to LY and not JOS???? That's a frikkin' joke. But, I digress... In my book, Larry Young was no better than Baby Face.

If you think what Baby Face is doing on ANY of his recorded work is lame....listen to many of the "hip" jazz organist of today (...snooze). BFW could play and he played his life. R&B gigs w/Guitar Slim in New Orleans, Gospel gigs in a tent revival, Jazz gigs with Lou Donaldson. That was HIS life. He did it all, and did the HELL out of it.

A lot of jazz folk are soul-less snobs. That's cool. I put on my crappy BFW "Behind The 8 Ball" and be 10 times happier than they are listening to gobbly gook critics dig.

KD's attitude, sadly is what turns me off to jazzers. They only dig very complitcated music that they deem hard enough to play and play well. It's a very macho vibe.

#63 Jim Alfredson

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Posted 10 April 2005 - 11:42 PM

Jimmy Smith was a genuis, plain and simple. Listen to the shit he was doing in the late 50s... and then listen to Coltrane and you'll understand where 'Trane got some of his stuff.

All the giants of organ are as unique as Bud, Monk, Wynton (Kelly), Evans, Tyner, Hancock, etc. McDuff is different from McGriff. Holmes is different from Scott. Etc, etc. To listen to something by Don Patterson and get bored is scary to me, but to each his own.

In a related note, Soul Stream, I think you're really gonna dig the new Organissimo record but I also think some people on here might not, just by some of the comments I've been reading lately. It'll be interesting to read the reviews, that's for sure.

:g

#64 Bill Fenohr

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Posted 11 April 2005 - 04:50 AM

To be fair to KD, he also reviewed Introducing Eric Kloss and had nothing but good things to say about Don Patterson's peformance on the date. He gave that record 4 stars.

He also reviewed Night Of The Cookers Vol 2, and in his words, found it to be a tired record.

I dont think he was anti organ. I think he judged each record on its own merits.

#65 Soul Stream

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Posted 11 April 2005 - 10:18 AM

In a related note, Soul Stream, I think you're really gonna dig the new Organissimo record but I also think some people on here might not, just by some of the comments I've been reading lately. It'll be interesting to read the reviews, that's for sure.

Jim, I'm looking forward to hearing it OF COURSE! I get the feeling ya'll may not be in there playing "Nardis" in 20 different time signatures. That's cool. I understand that 100%. Be yourselves...and be the hell out of it!

We all want to recreate what the legends did. I understand, but in the end the Organissimo CD will sit right next to the Jimmy Smith CD at the story...it's GOT to be it's own thing. I think that's what you guys are doing, and THAT'S when it'll start to pay off for you. Be Organissimo. That's your strength, you're a GROUP. THAT is a very, very, very rare thing these days. And THAT can go far.

#66 Jim Alfredson

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Posted 11 April 2005 - 10:35 AM

Thanks, Soul Stream. Sure, I'm influenced by Jimmy Smith and Larry Young and every other organists I've heard and studied the records of, but in the end, I am not Jimmy Smith, so why should I try to play like him? I didn't grow up during the Great Depression in Pennsylvania, I'm not black, I didn't live through the 50s and 60s, so why should I sound like that?

I am really happy and proud of how the group is sounding these days. I think when people hear us on the radio, they'll be able to say, "Hey, that's Organissimo!" just by the sound. That's what I've always been striving for.

This record will probably not please a lot of people who think that jazz should sound a certain way. But it's not supposed to. My goal from the beginning was to no less than redefine the jazz organ trio. I don't know if we've gotten there yet, but we're getting closer. :)

#67 Soul Stream

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Posted 12 April 2005 - 04:18 PM

right ____in' on, Jim A.-- beautiful attitude, ambition (seriously).

as for KD-- wow, i'd never seen that...

SS-- you know where KD grew up, si?

for some reason thinking of "downtown" Manor, Texas today--

(has it been torn down & "redeveloped" yet?)

c

Hey Clem
From what Martin Banks alway said...Kenny Dorham was from Austin...as far as going to high school here at the very least. Of course, I don't REALLY know.

#68 Soul Stream

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Posted 16 April 2005 - 12:34 PM

Just a note about Baby Face...some of his best work imho is on Grant Green's "Grant's First Stand" and also Lou Donaldson's "Here 'Tis." In case anybody doesn't have those, by all means make an effort to.

#69 Jazz Kat

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Posted 16 April 2005 - 05:15 PM

Thanks, Soul Stream. Sure, I'm influenced by Jimmy Smith and Larry Young and every other organists I've heard and studied the records of, but in the end, I am not Jimmy Smith, so why should I try to play like him? I didn't grow up during the Great Depression in Pennsylvania, I'm not black, I didn't live through the 50s and 60s, so why should I sound like that?

I am really happy and proud of how the group is sounding these days. I think when people hear us on the radio, they'll be able to say, "Hey, that's Organissimo!" just by the sound. That's what I've always been striving for.

This record will probably not please a lot of people who think that jazz should sound a certain way. But it's not supposed to. My goal from the beginning was to no less than redefine the jazz organ trio. I don't know if we've gotten there yet, but we're getting closer. :)

Your band is like my dream band. I don't want to JUST swing, I want some variety. I love the setup of the band Fourplay, but dont like their sound. I want to form a band someday and have a setup like theres and do what you are doing Jim. good luck with your new cd, I am going to buy it. I'm really short on money these days, no job or allowance. But I'll try. I'm so short my ciggs come from my sister, and I can't even pay her back. lol

#70 JSngry

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Posted 16 April 2005 - 06:29 PM

I'm so short my ciggs come from my sister

Well, see, that's your problem right there. Smoking stunts your growth.

#71 Chuck Nessa

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Posted 16 April 2005 - 06:35 PM

I'm so short my ciggs come from my sister

Well, see, that's your problem right there. Smoking stunts your growth.

I knew something was "stunting" this boy!

ALSO - time to stop the allowance.

#72 sheldonm

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Posted 16 April 2005 - 06:50 PM

Smoking stunts your growth.

...and contributes to many other ill effects!

#73 JSngry

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Posted 16 April 2005 - 06:53 PM

Not the least of which is being indebted to your sister...

#74 Jazz Kat

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Posted 16 April 2005 - 08:58 PM

I was actually kind of joking. My sister has never bought me a pack of ciggs, although she has given me some. I don't smoke on a regular basis, although I have. Just for clarification, cuz that's how I roll. :)

#75 JSngry

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Posted 16 April 2005 - 09:35 PM

You roll, eh? What kind of papers?

#76 Jazz Kat

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Posted 16 April 2005 - 09:36 PM

For joints. ;)

#77 JSngry

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Posted 16 April 2005 - 09:42 PM

I use Ben-Gay for mine.

#78 Jazz Kat

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Posted 16 April 2005 - 09:43 PM

OO, tryin to smell like the old folks eh? :lol:

#79 JSngry

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Posted 16 April 2005 - 10:37 PM

Just being true to my school.

#80 Soul Stream

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Posted 17 April 2005 - 05:27 PM

uh...er...somebody highjacked my BFW thread and turned it anti-BFW. B-)

#81 Alexander Hawkins

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Posted 20 April 2005 - 06:59 AM

I'm really enjoying Mo'Rock (or should that be Mo-Roc? It's not entirely clear from the sleeve!) just now. I really like BFW's takes on the standards 'But Not For Me' and 'Misty'. I could do without those screams on that 'Unseen...' track, but the rest of that particular number's a beauty as well.

#82 Kevin Bresnahan

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Posted 10 May 2005 - 12:33 PM

What happened to the story that was originally linked here? I could have sworn it talked about finding out how Baby Face died. I was talking to Michael Cuscuna about Baby Face and he was saying that he was thinking about a Mosaic Select and he'd like to include this info in the liners.

Kevin

#83 JSngry

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Posted 10 May 2005 - 12:39 PM

It was well known that Baby Face Willette was murdered in prison in Joliet, IL. (A drug conviction.) Willette's mother raised hell, demanded an investigation, but nothing ever came of it. When Leonard Bukowski still had his record shop on 53rd St. here in Chicago, one of the regular customers was the son of a cop -- he sd Baby Face was murdered over a drug deal. I neither believe nor disbelieve that story.
/
Ajaramu once told me that Baby Face was so frustrated w/the producer at the Behind The 8-Ball session that he cried and had to drink a fifth of liquor to get through the session. But "Song of the Universe" is a terrific piece.

Is this what you were looking for?

#84 Soulstation1

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Posted 10 May 2005 - 12:39 PM

wasn't he stabbed to death in jail?

#85 Kevin Bresnahan

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Posted 10 May 2005 - 12:43 PM

It was well known that Baby Face Willette was murdered in prison in Joliet, IL. (A drug conviction.) Willette's mother raised hell, demanded an investigation, but nothing ever came of it. When Leonard Bukowski still had his record shop on 53rd St. here in Chicago, one of the regular customers was the son of a cop -- he sd Baby Face was murdered over a drug deal. I neither believe nor disbelieve that story.
/
Ajaramu once told me that Baby Face was so frustrated w/the producer at the Behind The 8-Ball session that he cried and had to drink a fifth of liquor to get through the session. But "Song of the Universe" is a terrific piece.

Is this what you were looking for?

No, Jim, John's comment came later on in the thread. I believe the Doodlin' link at the beginning of the thread actually said how he was killed but in looking at it now, it doesn't mention it any more. I believe the link used to go to an "update" page but I can't find this update anywhere on that website.

Maybe Jim can contact Pete Fallico?

Kevin

#86 Soul Stream

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Posted 10 May 2005 - 02:39 PM

Pete Fallico is the one who will know. He's the only one who is currently in contact with Baby Face Willette's son and widow. The story is about to come out fully, but Pete hasn't put it on the website I guess yet. Hope he does soon.

#87 Son-of-a-Weizen

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Posted 12 August 2005 - 04:45 PM

I only have a couple of jazz organ cds in the collection and have been sampling a couple of cuts here and there. This Baby Face Willette (TOCJ-6471) sample track ('Swingin w/Sugar Ray) sounds pretty hot. If the rest of the disc sounds like this, I'll definitely have to spring for it.

#88 montg

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Posted 12 August 2005 - 05:21 PM

This is one of my favorite organ jazz CDs. A cut above the standard Blue Note organ combo, I think (which is saying a lot!).. Dustygroove has this on sale periodically for 18.99. That's where I picked mine up this spring.

edit-I forgot to add that this has really good sound too. As somebody noted earlier in this thread, the bass lines are clear.

Edited by montg, 12 August 2005 - 05:22 PM.


#89 Soul Stream

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Posted 12 August 2005 - 06:12 PM

GET THIS RECORD!!!!

#90 The Magnificent Goldberg

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Posted 11 September 2006 - 06:10 AM

Upped for Baby Face's birthday.

I haven't seen this thread before. Pete Fallico has had his site redesigned and the page on Baby Face (and all the other "organ stories") has been removed pending inclusion in a book. I downloaded a copy of the Willette page to my hard disc in 2004, but that was before the update about his death. So now, I can't get the story. Can someone fill me in on it, please?

For me, Baby Face has always been the most unique and mightiest of all Soul Jazz organists. He was the only one who was neither a Davis man nor a Smith man. He had been playing organ in church since 1943! That's not to say that Smith had no effect on his playing. But Smith's approach seems to have been grafted onto a mature Gospel organ approach, informed in the fifties by listening to Professor Herman Stevens, the Poet of the Gospel Organ, and Rev Maceo Woods, whose Vee-Jay recording of "Amazing grace" was a HUGE seller in the mid fifties (without ever being a hit). When you listen to some of Herman Stevens recordings, you can hear, quite clearly, where Baby Face got his ominous, threatening, bass line from and that narrow, penetrating sound in his right hand improvisations.

Baby Face was a one-off.

Here's a story that hasn't been mentioned. Opal Nations, whose work in reissuing Specialty's Gospel catalogue for Fantasy is well known, was a DJ in Memphis in the late '60s. (He was also from my home town, and wrote about this to my mate.) He interviewed Baby Face for his radio programme and Willette apparently told him that Chess wouldn't let him record, although he had a contract with them.

Makes your heart bleed, don't it?

MG




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