ep1str0phy

John Coltrane: Technician

35 posts in this topic

10 hours ago, Rabshakeh said:

A very old (but interesting) thread.

Alexander Hawkins brings up an interesting point at a tangent to the main discussion at the end, regarding John Butcher being influenced by gospel saxophone playing.

This is news to me. But interesting news. If anyone knows anything about this, I’d be fascinated to know (including the names that escaped the poster back in 2006).

Vernard Johnson! (http://www.paristransatlantic.com/magazine/interviews/butcher.html) :)

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
9 hours ago, Rabshakeh said:

Thanks!

No problem! I'm pretty sure I've heard Threadgill cite Johnson too...

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Vernard Johnson was a "local sensation" before breaking through to a broader Gospel Audience. I think/hope I still have my copy of this, his second album, from 1974:

R-2057220-1433123018-9483.jpeg.jpg

They used to play this one on the radio, Sunday mornings:

in context:

Just remember, Johnson is not inventing any of this...I went to high school with an alto player who wanted to be Cannonball, but couldn't help but sound like this. It's a whole stream of sound-consciousness that permeates a lot of music, even to this day.

Listen to Wilton Felder with this factor in mind....what some people hear as one thing, people who wh have different exposures will hear as something else altogether.

and probably not of any interest here, but....Kirk Whalum.

 

Yes, it's a Dianne Warren song. And yes they're in a church. And yes, it "sounds like" Smooth Jazz". But maybe if you come from a different place, "Smooth Jazz" is not a phrase that means anything to you, maybe it means nothing at all.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Smooth jazz saxophone definitely seems to be something that exists independently of the genres's emergance as a radio format. I hear a lot.of smooth jazz in some Pharaoh Sanders records. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 hour ago, Rabshakeh said:

Smooth jazz saxophone definitely seems to be something that exists independently of the genres's emergance as a radio format. I hear a lot.of smooth jazz in some Pharaoh Sanders records. 

I hear it in Jan Garbarek as well as Paul Desmond, and from a substantial portion of RVG's production oeuvre from about the mid-60s onward. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
2 hours ago, Rabshakeh said:

Smooth jazz saxophone definitely seems to be something that exists independently of the genres's emergance as a radio format. I hear a lot.of smooth jazz in some Pharaoh Sanders records. 

A 2dary front of the 80s/90s jazz wars involved an aggressive and somewhat ridiculous denial of the obvious links between “real jazz” and smooth jazz

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
7 hours ago, Guy Berger said:

A 2dary front of the 80s/90s jazz wars involved an aggressive and somewhat ridiculous denial of the obvious links between “real jazz” and smooth jazz

Agreed. I always felt it was pretty silly, although presumably an imaginative reaction to seeing supermarket jazz sections stocked entirely by Kenny G CDs. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
12 hours ago, Guy Berger said:

A 2dary front of the 80s/90s jazz wars involved an aggressive and somewhat ridiculous denial of the obvious links between “real jazz” and smooth jazz

Really the only "obvious" link is that Grover and Benson each started in one and was very influential in the other.  But deeper than that? Please explain because I recall nothing about a "secondary front" back then. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Posted (edited)

On 18-4-2006 at 8:18 AM, ep1str0phy said:

"Many of the devices that we associate with him were in fact initially introduced by other musicians: in the case of utilizing mid-Eastern modes, Yusef Lateef; in the case of playing harmonics on the saxophone, a still-anonymous Philadelphia musician." (Kofsky 174)

First question (someone has to know): where--cause I can't recall--is it stated that Coltrane developed his harmonics technique from an 'anonymous' Philadelphia musician? An interview, perhaps?

It's been a while but, looking for information on Shafi Hadi, I just stumbled upon an article in the Philadelphia Inquirer of 7 June 1992 which included a conversation with that anonymous Philadelphia musician...

[John] Glenn whom Coltrane credited with showing him how to finger as many as three notes simultaneously [..] explained that he himself had been taught the technique by Shafi Hadi [..].

looking for John Glenn then easily gives a Coltrane quote e.g. here

https://downbeat.com/microsites/prestige/trane-interview.html

 

Edited by Niko

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Please sign in to comment

You will be able to leave a comment after signing in



Sign In Now

  • Recently Browsing   0 members

    No registered users viewing this page.