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Dave James

School Bus Monitor Harassment

65 posts in this topic

What in the world is going on?

Age-based propensities to certain behaviors combined with the mob factor.

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Middle school kids have always been monsters, given half a chance. It's up to the adults to smack them down (not literally, of course, although there are times...) when they get out of line.

Or else glamorize them:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Knjf3ABPc0E

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Those kids are damn lucky David Lee Roth is on tour with Van Freakin Halen

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Nothing new there whatsoever. It's that wonderful happy age range as portrayed in Lord Of The Flies. At least they aren't soaking tennis balls in lighter fluid and rolling them down the aisle as in my day.

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If I may...

This whole "kids will be kids" ideology is largely what fuels or, at the very least justifies, bully-type behavior. These kids don't learn this crap on their own. Media and non-parenting, however, almost preach it to them on a daily basis.

Further, isn't it that bus monitor's job to control bullying on the bus? She just sat there and took it all. I have to wonder: Why is she there...just to watch?

Edited by GoodSpeak

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I've been working with Middle School kids for the last several years and I have to say that I prefer kids at that age. They're still kids and you (the teacher) are still noticeably bigger and more mature than they are. I've always had more trouble dealing with High Schoolers, especially the upperclassmen. I'm only 5'7" (the same as Tom Cruise, btw, who is often ridiculed for his height), so a lot of High School boys are taller than me. It kind of makes discipline a challenge...

Of course, this is a disturbing story. I've been in this position on a few occasions myself, facing down a group of kids who refuse to show the slightest respect. Generally speaking, it's harder to establish credibility once the kids have seen you with your guard down, so I've learned not to show anxiety or distress in the face of such resistence. The best thing to do is be firm and consistent and FOLLOW THROUGH. If you make a threat, you'd better make good on it. You might not regain control in the moment, but if you make the kids face the consequences of their actions, you'll be less likely to lose control again in the future.

As to what this case demonstrates most clearly, to me, is the need for parents to really step up to the plate. These kids didn't get this way by accident. Some of them are sociopaths, I'm sure, but most of them are just kids who were swept along once things got rolling. And they allowed themselves to be swept up because their parents haven't made it clear to them that THEY (the kids) become of the public face of their family once they get on the bus and go to school. If they want their family to look like human beings, they need to act accordingly.

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I've been working with Middle School kids for the last several years and I have to say that I prefer kids at that age. They're still kids and you (the teacher) are still noticeably bigger and more mature than they are. I've always had more trouble dealing with High Schoolers, especially the upperclassmen. I'm only 5'7" (the same as Tom Cruise, btw, who is often ridiculed for his height), so a lot of High School boys are taller than me. It kind of makes discipline a challenge...

Of course, this is a disturbing story. I've been in this position on a few occasions myself, facing down a group of kids who refuse to show the slightest respect. Generally speaking, it's harder to establish credibility once the kids have seen you with your guard down, so I've learned not to show anxiety or distress in the face of such resistence. The best thing to do is be firm and consistent and FOLLOW THROUGH. If you make a threat, you'd better make good on it. You might not regain control in the moment, but if you make the kids face the consequences of their actions, you'll be less likely to lose control again in the future.

As to what this case demonstrates most clearly, to me, is the need for parents to really step up to the plate. These kids didn't get this way by accident. Some of them are sociopaths, I'm sure, but most of them are just kids who were swept along once things got rolling. And they allowed themselves to be swept up because their parents haven't made it clear to them that THEY (the kids) become of the public face of their family once they get on the bus and go to school. If they want their family to look like human beings, they need to act accordingly.

Agreed.

I would, however, suggest that height [or lack of same] has very little to do with respect and/or the ability to maintain classroom discipline. I worked with a gal who topped out at maybe 4'10" and the sophomores she taught toed the mark. Step out of line and she'd make you feel like two-cents waiting for change.

Junior high kids are that way for a couple reasons: Poor parenting and media influence plus the fact their hormones have taken their braincells hostage. They either love you or they hate you and not all at the same time....and on alternating days. It's a tough age to teach, but [as I'm sure you know] that still doesn't justify bullying.

Personally, I did two years in junior high and threw a party the day I was "paroled" to the high school level. I wouldn't go back to that squirrel cage even at gun point. So, my hat is off to you, Alexander. Seriously.

Edited by GoodSpeak

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I've been working with Middle School kids for the last several years and I have to say that I prefer kids at that age. They're still kids and you (the teacher) are still noticeably bigger and more mature than they are. I've always had more trouble dealing with High Schoolers, especially the upperclassmen. I'm only 5'7" (the same as Tom Cruise, btw, who is often ridiculed for his height), so a lot of High School boys are taller than me. It kind of makes discipline a challenge...

Of course, this is a disturbing story. I've been in this position on a few occasions myself, facing down a group of kids who refuse to show the slightest respect. Generally speaking, it's harder to establish credibility once the kids have seen you with your guard down, so I've learned not to show anxiety or distress in the face of such resistence. The best thing to do is be firm and consistent and FOLLOW THROUGH. If you make a threat, you'd better make good on it. You might not regain control in the moment, but if you make the kids face the consequences of their actions, you'll be less likely to lose control again in the future.

As to what this case demonstrates most clearly, to me, is the need for parents to really step up to the plate. These kids didn't get this way by accident. Some of them are sociopaths, I'm sure, but most of them are just kids who were swept along once things got rolling. And they allowed themselves to be swept up because their parents haven't made it clear to them that THEY (the kids) become of the public face of their family once they get on the bus and go to school. If they want their family to look like human beings, they need to act accordingly.

What could she do to stop the kids from doing anything??? She would get in trouble. IMHO, those kids are completely worthless, and might as well do the the world a favor and die...now.

Go ahead and say kids have always been the same...bullshit. I bullied a few kids, I was bullied by a few kids...Never, in a million years would I or anyone I knew taunt a sweet old lady like this. And clearly someone was so proud of their achievement, they put it on the web. Completely useless, worthless fucker.

Only good thing in this sad story is that more than 200K has been raised for her...

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Mob mentality, which is pre-programmed. Most people are sheep, kids even more so. See: Florida A&M Marching Band hazing incident. One person starts shit, the others follow because they have not been taught to think for themselves. It's a failure of our society as a whole, which is set up to breed conformity.

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IMHO, those kids are completely worthless, and might as well do the the world a favor and die...now.

The spokesperson for compassionate conservatism.

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IMHO, those kids are completely worthless, and might as well do the the world a favor and die...now.

The spokesperson for compassionate conservatism.

If that's a humble opinion, I'd hate to see one he's proud of.

Edited by sonnymax

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IMHO it's the fault of a school of child psychologists who have convinced parents to be friends with their kids, boost their self esteem, encourage co-sleeping, etc..

A lot of kids don't know the meaning of "no" or "because I said so".

It's a sad state of affairs. Respect appears to be out the window.

Edited by jlhoots

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IMHO it's the fault of a school of child psychologists who have convinced parents to be friends with their kids, boost their self esteem, encourage co-sleeping, etc..

A lot of kids don't know the meaning of "no" or "because I said so".

I don't understand what's cause and effect about those two sentences or contradictory about the approaches you've laid out.

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Things haven't been the same since the big bands went away.

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Things haven't been the same since the big bands went away.

Things ain't the way they used to be. I wish big bands were still popular and in demand.

Even if there was a public demand for big band music, I doubt you could find musicians with enough tone, originality and soul as those in Basie's band or Ellingtons, Hermans, etc.

Anyways, this bus monitor harassment breaks my heart. I read the article, and it brought a tear to my eye. "How could kids treat this old lady so poorly...?"

But I remember I was a little troublemaker back then, and could probably see myself teasing someone---especially one who wouldn't stand up to it.

Live and learn.

Hopefully these kids get a big punishment from their parents.

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IMHO it's the fault of a school of child psychologists who have convinced parents to be friends with their kids, boost their self esteem, encourage co-sleeping, etc..

A lot of kids don't know the meaning of "no" or "because I said so".

I don't understand what's cause and effect about those two sentences or contradictory about the approaches you've laid out.

O.K. - the first sentence indicates things I believe parents do wrong. The kids with the most self esteem,for example, are often the most anti-social & entitled.

The 2nd sentence indicates what parents should do, i.e say no, etc.

Parents have lost control & don't set boundaries the way they should.

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You're saying "parents" like the nuclear family is still the norm...

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...The kids with the most self esteem,for example, are often the most anti-social & entitled...

Sheer, utter nonsense. You blame one group (psychologists), then another (parents), and then another (children with self-esteem). It's obvious you have little understanding about the different factors that influence individual and group behavior. Please stop blaming and labeling and instead read, learn, and broaden your understanding.

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...The kids with the most self esteem,for example, are often the most anti-social & entitled...

Sheer, utter nonsense. You blame one group (psychologists), then another (parents), and then another (children with self-esteem). It's obvious you have little understanding about the different factors that influence individual and group behavior. Please stop blaming and labeling and instead read, learn, and broaden your understanding.

You're being awfully defensive.

Who do you blame??? Or are all 3 groups (parents, kids, psychologists) just perfect.

I've read plenty in my 30+ years of medical practice.

You should follow the advice in your last sentence (read, learn, etc.).

Parents need to start acting like parents again & (some) psychologists need to stop with all of the encouragement of many types of permissive parenting.

Edited by jlhoots

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IMHO, those kids are completely worthless, and might as well do the the world a favor and die...now.

The spokesperson for compassionate conservatism.

If that's a humble opinion, I'd hate to see one he's proud of.

Yeah, it is...I care for her..the kids are shit...don't believe this is "just" mob mentality...anyone recall any of your friends doing shit like this? This isn't TP'ing a house, bashing someone....behind their back....This was all about making an old woman cry, keeping the pressure on her, and being PROUD of it. Don't know if they know she was a widow, a Mom who had a son commit suicide a decade before. I'm amazed after a day like this, she didn't end it all.

This is right up there with kids killing kittens or puppies. Some sick fucks that there is little to no hope for. Parents will have to do something drastic IF there is a chance to change their courses...

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Years ago, if that nonsense went down on a school bus, the kids probably would have been expelled. And the parents would have punished them severely once they got home.

Dumb little fucks. That whole story sickens me.

Once that shit started, the guilty little pricks should have been slapped down in their seats and told to STFU.

But then the school would get sued.

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anyone recall any of your friends doing shit like this?

Friends, no. Classmates, yes, and more than one.

But they had it made clear to them in no uncertain terms that this was not acceptable behavior and would not be tolerated under any circumstances. Some got it and some didn't. The ones who did did ok as they went on. The ones who didn't...didn't.

Explaining a behavior is not the same as excusing it, nor is understanding it the same as advocating for the tolerance of it.

By the same token, lashing out in rage is not the same as punishing with purpose. I'm all in favor of the latter (and the stronger the punishment, the strong ther purpose needs to be).

And yes, I spanked my kids, on occasion. Sue me. But I never told them they were worthless, and I never told them that they would be doing the world a favor by dieing. They're both good, conscientious adults now, but they had to learn right from worng, and they didn't always get it right on the first try. But it's a parent's job to get them there by any means necessary, if at all possible. I've yet to see a case where aiming the invective at the person rather than the act really pays dividends.

Would you really say shit like that to your kids, no matter what they did? You can do a lot of things in the name of love, but that ain't one of them. That's just abdicating responsibility, giving up, not taking responsibility for getting the motherfuckers to understand that as they do, they become, and that there should be no doubt in anybody's mind - especially theirs - that they will most certainly not become that, not if you have anything to say about it, so they damn well better walk away from that path they're getting on ASAP.

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I think I had a protected childhood. I just don't remembered bullying or being bullied. I didn't even understand the film Dazed and Confused with the plot about hazing. Sometimes I think it's just an American thing but I'm sure it it happens in Canada too. And I don't think too much self esteem has anything to do with it. I expect it's the opposite. People get treated like shit by their parents or teachers and they think that's how you're supposed to act.

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