Looking for "HIP" Haydn string quartets recommendations

[J.A.W.]

The thread title speaks for itself. I am especially interested in opinions on the interpretations by the Hungarian Festetics Quartet, Simon Standage's Salomon Quartet and other quartets that specialize in period ("HIP") performances.

I've never heard the Festetics' interpretations, which seem to be controversial; I've read many reviews that are very positive, but others complain about the slow movements, that some characterized as being "solemn", way too slow. There were also complaints about their intonation, which one reviewer described as being even worse than in the Vegh Quartet's Beethoven quartets.

Opinions and recommendations ("HIP" only, please) are very welcome.

P.S. Forgot to say that I have all the Quatuor Mosaïques Haydn string quartet CDs. Unfortunately, they didn't record all of the quartets.

Edited April 14, 2013 by J.A.W.

[J.A.W.]

Two other names that were suggested for Haydn are the Apponyi and Schuppanzigh Quartets, both on period instruments.

Anyone?

Edited April 14, 2013 by J.A.W.

[king ubu]

The Lumières box from Harmonia Mundi has two Haydn quartets by the Jerusalem Quartet - not sure they're HIP though, and haven't listened yet, but ...

[J.A.W.]

The Lumières box from Harmonia Mundi has two Haydn quartets by the Jerusalem Quartet - not sure they're HIP though, and haven't listened yet, but ...

Thanks, but they play on modern instruments and I prefer period instruments - except fortepiano, which I don't like at all - for Haydn (and Mozart, Bach and other earlier composers). Excellent quartet, though. Edited April 14, 2013 by J.A.W.

[king ubu]

Okay, sorry - didn't know, didn't check ... but anyway, it's all fiction, isn't it? Some is better than other, some more plausible, times change, knowledge changes. And many "modern" violins are 300 years old, it seems

Edited April 14, 2013 by king ubu

[J.A.W.]

Okay, sorry - didn't know, didn't check ... but anyway, it's all fiction, isn't it? Some is better than other, some more plausible, times change, knowledge changes. And many "modern" violins are 300 years old, it seems

It's not only the age of the instruments (some are copies), it's also the way they are played, the pitch, things like that. Plus, I'm not a fan of "romantic" interpretations of baroque and much classical music.

[king ubu]

I'm slowly growing to appreciate those differences (without being able to tell them though, just listening), and I've gained plenty from these HIP-threads you started, so I'll shut my mouth know and wait for mikeweil to drop by with some recommendations that might be of interest to me as well!

[J.A.W.]

I'm slowly growing to appreciate those differences (without being able to tell them though, just listening), and I've gained plenty from these HIP-threads you started, so I'll shut my mouth know and wait for mikeweil to drop by with some recommendations that might be of interest to me as well!

Mike told me he's not that interested in string quartets, so I doubt he'll post here.

[Larry Kart]

Someone I tend to trust in the HIP realm (in part because he's heard almost everything that's available in that realm, in part because he has good taste in general) endorses the Apponyi. Their Op. 33 can be heard on Spotify, but that seems to be the only Haydn they've done.

[J.A.W.]

Someone I tend to trust in the HIP realm (in part because he's heard almost everything that's available in that realm, in part because he has good taste in general) endorses the Apponyi.

I read a few very favourable reviews of the Apponyi. I think I'm going to try their CD - they only recorded one, with Op.33. Thanks. Edited April 15, 2013 by J.A.W.

[Larry Kart]

Should you want to branch out into HIP Haydn keyboard concerti (some played on fortepiano, some on harpsichord, some on organ), this Christine Schornsheim set of eight concerti is very good IMO and nicely priced at Amazon at two discs for $16.94:

http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B002ED6VL8/ref=wms_ohs_product_img?ie=UTF8&psc=1

It can be heard on Spotify.

[J.A.W.]

Should you want to branch out into HIP Haydn keyboard concerti (some played on fortepiano, some on harpsichord, some on organ), this Christine Schornsheim set of eight concerti is very good IMO and nicely priced at Amazon at two discs for $16.94:

http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B002ED6VL8/ref=wms_ohs_product_img?ie=UTF8&psc=1

It can be heard on Spotify.

Thanks for the recommendation, but I've listened to samples of that set several times last year and I can't get used to the fortepiano and I'm not an organ fan. I like Schornsheim's playing, though. Her Well-Tempered Clavier (4 CDs) is excellent.

[Larry Kart]

Actually, a quick re-listen to the Schornsheim set left me not in a favorable mood; the playing is good but too many of the works are early and slight.

[king ubu]

I'm slowly growing to appreciate those differences (without being able to tell them though, just listening), and I've gained plenty from these HIP-threads you started, so I'll shut my mouth know and wait for mikeweil to drop by with some recommendations that might be of interest to me as well!

Mike told me he's not that interested in string quartets, so I doubt he'll post here.

Oh, I wasn't aware of that!

[T.D.]

The Festetics were often recommended in the rec.music.classical.recordings archives, but I had trouble finding their recordings and went for the Quatuor Mosaiques (which the OP already owns) instead. The other Haydn recordings I own are with modern instruments...

[mikeweil]

The label Arcana which released the Festetics Quartet's Haydn series was in trouble after the passing of its founder, was re-launched, and the series completed. I'm not that much into string quartets, that's correct, I developped a real distaste for vibrato with string players, and even some HIP players are not immune to it. Just too much of a good thing for me, I wouldn't want a complete series. For me, the 3 disc cross-selection of Anton Steck's Scuppanzigh Quartet was sufficient (still waiting for the third disc to be released). Their playing is marvellous.

[J.A.W.]

I'm not that much into string quartets, that's correct, I developped a real distaste for vibrato with string players, and even some HIP players are not immune to it.

So you're the opposite of Classics Today's David Hurwitz, who clearly developed a distaste for non-vibrato string playing I'm more on your side but not totally; I don't mind a light vibrato, but too much vibrato gets on my nerves, it's one of the things I don't like in "romantic" interpretations.

Thanks for the recommendation of the Schuppanzighs; I've ordered those two, the Apponyi and a few Festetics.

Edited April 15, 2013 by J.A.W.

[soulpope]

Have to second the strong recommendation reg. the Schuppanzigh performances.

Slightly off-topic, more marvelous playing by them is to be heard on two CD`s with the Ferdinand Ries String Quartets - released on the German JPC label with a more than decent asking price !!!

[mikeweil]

In turn I second the recommendation on the Schuppanzighs' Ries quartets!

Re. vibrato: What I really hate is continuous vibrato on every note that's long enough to apply it, which is the practice with most "conventional" string quartets. That, in combination with the sound of steel strings, the higher pitch and the hyper-romantic attitude, is hard to endure for me. The Schuppanzighs do use vibrato, but with taste, not automatized.

@ King Ubu - the violins etc. of modern string players may be old, but were modified, some even re-built over the centuries to achieve higher volume and stand the higher tension of the steel strings and higher concert pitch - that all makes for a different sound. HIP players have their violins restored to the original state as far as possible, or play reconstructions based on the original proportions.There are many factors in performance practice to be considered - even HIp players miss on several of them in many cases!

Edited April 16, 2013 by mikeweil

[king ubu]

Thanks for the explanations, Mike! I'm at a point where what matters to me isn't concepts (or ideology) but whether or not I like what I hear. That may change or it may not. Anyway, HIP is always just an attempt to recreate something unknown and unheard and as such remains speculation. As with all historical research, what matters is how good the arguments (and questions asked) are, and how valid the drawn conclusions. Seems HIP performance has evolved quite a bit over the past fifty of so years, too. But as I said, at this point I don't care that much. But it sounds like you reached a point where there's hardly a way "back" (to non-HIP performances, that is), at least in some areas? Not sure I want to ever go there, as it would mean giving up too many things I fell dearly in love with in the past eight or nine months. But then if you're there, of course it doesn't feel like a loss, it's just the way things go ...

When you say though: "There are many factors in performance practice to be considered - even HIp players miss on several of them in many cases!" - in light of such (certainly true) evaluations, I'm really hard-pressed to go with anything else by my personal likes and dislikes as a guide through the huge jungle of recordings out there. Or rather: I'm willing to try many things and travel many places, but I won't trust but the music in the end, and I'll always be questioning anything beyond that, trying to put things into perspective (which is historical and evolving, hence there are no truths). Guess that's just how I work, after all.

Sorry for this excourse, folks

[mikeweil]

... But it sounds like you reached a point where there's hardly a way "back" (to non-HIP performances, that is), at least in some areas? Not sure I want to ever go there, as it would mean giving up too many things I fell dearly in love with in the past eight or nine months. But then if you're there, of course it doesn't feel like a loss, it's just the way things go ...

You're perfectly right with your assumptions. Consequently, I sold quite a number of recordings that do not convince me anymore, although I learned a lot from and enjoyed them at the time, and still appreciate the performers' efforts. I appreciate every performer's efforts, even if I do not coincide with the results. But the more I learn about the music, the more critical I become. If you read my posts on my Prospero Forum you will get the idea. I'm the kind of listener whose taste and knowledge influence each other, and that fires my excitement about the music even more than the emotional attitudes.

That said, there is a speculative moment about any musical perfomance of historical music, and it's not just about some ideological concept of authenticity, but about what you experience that makes the music work better and "sound right". Trying to get closer to the original sound is just a means to achieve a more satisfying performance which in my opinion works better than simply ignoring some historical facts by making pragmatic decisions due to ubiquitous performance conditions. HIP is a thoroughly modern approach, and for a multitude of reasons.

If that goes all together, it makes for a fantastic, moving listening experience - see my selection of desert island discs. If we find the time and the place to meet again sometime in the future, I'll happily discuss some of this with you.

Edited April 16, 2013 by mikeweil

[king ubu]

Wasn't aware of that forum, will have a look, thanks! I gather you've posted your faves there?

And yes, I'd love to discuss this all in person with you over a beer or a glass of wine or whatever ... we'll make it some day!

[mikeweil]

Yes to all - Prospero Forum (German language)

[Peter Friedman]

I have two SACDs by the Amsterdam String Quartet playing Haydn on historical Instruments on the Channel Classics label.

Both of these discs are, to my ears, very very good.

[mikeweil]

Turns out I do have one of the Salomon String Quartet Haydn discs - hadn't listened to it in decades .... I'm am positively surprised, it is much better than I had remembered. Simon Standage and his companions do produce a lightly silvery, warm sound, very clear, you can hear all four voices clearly, their rhythm is precise and to the point, they do not avoid vibrato, but it is audible only in the first violin, and applied with great taste. Recommended.

Edited April 23, 2013 by mikeweil