Impulse Coltrane on SHM-CD (Universal Japan)

[erwbol]

I haven't spent that much time yet with Live in Seattle (it was the last one I bought), but some Amazon.com reviewer was raving about the SHM. I just made a quick comparison with the grp and thought I could detect a different mastering. I thought the SHM sounded very good in itself.

Interstellar Space was an excellent Reeves remaster in the US/EU in 2001. This new SHM remaster is even more open like the other studio discs, but less of an upgrade than say Sun Ship and Meditations.

Stellar Regions sounds beautiful on the SHM. A greater difference with the digipak than Interstellar Space (obviously since this was a Labson remaster).

Living Space the same as Stellar Regions.

I hope you enjoy them.

Edited February 2, 2014 by erwbol

[erwbol]

One other thing I decided not to bother mentioning to avoid further confusion and out of hand dismissal of these 10 third wave discs.

On the back of the OBIs (left on the photos) there is a horizontal orange bar in the middle with some Japanese characters. On some of the discs it says 20bit, others 24bit, others nothing but Japanese.

As I explained above the studio albums sound nothing like the Japanese 20 bit K2 remasters. For a direct comparison take Offering from Stellar Regions which is also present on Expressions UCCI-9145, a 20bit K2 remaster that is still in print. Clearly the K2 is compressed (though preferable to the US grp disc). Stellar Regions is also an upgrade over the US disc.

Living Space has a more dynamic sound like Stellar Regions. Yet there is the combination 20bit on the OBI. Clearly this SHM does not reproduce a 20bit K2 remaster. Also, it is different from the 20bit US/EU digipak. The harshness in Coltrane's tenor sound is gone, a different sound in general.

Interstellar Space has 24bit on the OBI, yet this sounds different from the Japanese 24bit remasters from a decade ago I've heard.

The 10 studio discs have too much of a uniformly open and dynamic sound to be made up of such a collection of previous reissues.

----------------

My guess is that this is one of these odd inaccuracies you find in Japanese reissues.

For example, the 2008 DSD remaster of Eric Dolphy & Booker Little's Memorial Album reproduces the exact booklet from the US OJC including the mastering credits for Phil De Lancie (Fantasy Studios, Berkeley). This while not mentioning DSD on the OBI.

The other two Five Spot albums in their DSD remasters sound exactly like that 2008 disc Memorial album. Of these I have the 2012 reissues (Memorial album was not reissued again in 2012 and I had to track down the previous 2008 issue). The 2012 discs do mention DSD on the OBI and give Japanese DSD remastering credits (June - August 2007, Kazuie Sugimoto) in the booklet.

[jazzbo]

I hope you enjoy them.

Thanks! I suspect I will. I've been wanting to revisit these with some repeated listenings, and this widens the experience.

And in the following post even more valuable information. Thanks again.

[David]

erwbol -- I can't thank you enough for this information. This is truly useful information. I had been avoiding all of these, but now . . .

On a tangential note, I have Shirley Scott - Girl Talk, which was released on SHM around this same time period, and I really like the sound. I don't have anything to compare it to, however.

[J.A.W.]

Thanks for your research, Erwin. Would it be possible for you to summarize and post a list of SHM CDs whose masterings are improvements over previous masterings in your opinion? Thanks.

[Chuck Nessa]

I thought most of the original masters were lost. Was I misinformed?

[J.A.W.]

I thought most of the original masters were lost. Was I misinformed?

Same here. I wonder which sources were used for these CDs.

[erwbol]

I thought most of the original masters were lost. Was I misinformed?

Same here. I wonder which sources were used for these CDs.

It is a question I have no answer to.

[jazzbo]

The Japanese have probably been remastering the same tapes they were sent decades ago.

[erwbol]

I generally don't have a problem with that. It's the quality of the end product that matters.

[David Ayers]

The Japanese have probably been remastering the same tapes they were sent decades ago.

Of course they have. Not sure why this is a question. Same in the US. Aren't I right in thinking that a lot of US RVGs, for example, were made using the borrowed tapes from Toshiba because they are in better condition? Isn't the superior condition of some tapes stored in Japan at least part of the reason that so many Japanese issues turn out to well?

Question of vocabulary. I've always taken it that the master was the version taken from the mix prepared from the original tapes and is not to be in any way equated with the original tapes or even with that master mix. So in this case have the original studio tapes been lost, or the original master mix (if different), or the original master (taken from that mix) - or all of those -? Never quite sure what people mean.

[J.A.W.]

I think it's pretty simple. "Original master tape" refers to the tape that was used to record the music on. Successive duplicates - taken from the original master as well as later ones taken from the duplicates - are bound to have an increasing number of problems such as tape hiss upon tape hiss (I'm talking about the pre-digital era), drop-outs and what have you.

[David Ayers]

I think it's pretty simple. "Original master tape" refers to the tape that was used to record the music on. Successive duplicates - taken from the original master as well as later ones taken from the duplicates - are bound to have an increasing number of problems such as tape hiss upon tape hiss (I'm talking about the pre-digital era), drop-outs and what have you.

Not really. The stereo master is mixed from the session tapes. Otherwise nothing could be 're-mastered' because the master would be the session tapes which obviously can't be redone.

[J.A.W.]

I think it's pretty simple. "Original master tape" refers to the tape that was used to record the music on. Successive duplicates - taken from the original master as well as later ones taken from the duplicates - are bound to have an increasing number of problems such as tape hiss upon tape hiss (I'm talking about the pre-digital era), drop-outs and what have you.

Not really. The stereo master is mixed from the session tapes. Otherwise nothing could be 're-mastered' because the master would be the session tapes which obviously can't be redone.

I'm not an expert, but I was told that mastering engineers like Kevin Gray, Steve Hoffman, Vic Anesini and Mark Wilder (to name a few) are using the original session tapes as sources for their masterings where they can. The term "remaster" in this case means that they went back to the source to create a new mastering; the term is used to distinguish the new mastering from earlier masterings.

Edited February 3, 2014 by J.A.W.

[David Ayers]

I think it's pretty simple. "Original master tape" refers to the tape that was used to record the music on. Successive duplicates - taken from the original master as well as later ones taken from the duplicates - are bound to have an increasing number of problems such as tape hiss upon tape hiss (I'm talking about the pre-digital era), drop-outs and what have you.

Not really. The stereo master is mixed from the session tapes. Otherwise nothing could be 're-mastered' because the master would be the session tapes which obviously can't be redone.

I'm not an expert, but I was told that mastering engineers like Kevin Gray, Steve Hoffman, Vic Anesini and Mark Wilder (to name a few) are using the original session tapes as sources for their masterings where they can. The term "remaster" in this case means that they went back to the source to create a new mastering; the term is used to distinguish the new mastering from earlier masterings.

Yes - the original session tapes are not the master - so I am wondering in the case of the Impulse Coltrane which is missing - the session tapes or the original masters. Or both.

'Remaster' these days is as likely to mean the digital version of an analogue master as it is to mean any remixing from the original tapes, though in the case of 2-track in-the-mix stereo edits this distinction may be blurred (and hence the slippage with which session tapes become referred to as 'masters').

[jazzbo]

I generally don't have a problem with that. It's the quality of the end product that matters.

Indeed. I wasn't inferring that I had a problem with that.

[erwbol]

Thanks for your research, Erwin. Would it be possible for you to summarize and post a list of SHM CDs whose masterings are improvements over previous masterings in your opinion? Thanks.

Basically I consider the ten discs above of possible interest, especially the studio titles.

I've never owned Jupiter Variation or Cosmic Music before, but three of the tracks from Jupiter I'm familiar with from other releases. Cosmic Music I know from the Hip-O Select. I downloaded every Originals and Hip-O Select release that wasn't already in my collection and burned them to CD-RW to compare.

In my opinion every studio title from the list of ten improves on the Originals/Hip-O release, US/EU digipaks.

Meditations quite dramatically imo.

My intention is to share my experiences, not to make recommendations for purchasing. Think carefully before you buy if you wan't to take the risk and spend the money. Most titles are already OOP.

I generally don't have a problem with that. It's the quality of the end product that matters.

Indeed. I wasn't inferring that I had a problem with that.

I didn't mean to imply you were. Sorry for the confusion.

[jazzbo]

I wasn't necessarily confused, just clarifying.

Now you make me want to order Meditations. Thanks a lot!

[etherbored]

I thought most of the original masters were lost. Was I misinformed?

Same here. I wonder which sources were used for these CDs.

i can almost guarantee you that they're japanese safeties that are used as sources. they're just being engineered and reengineered to the ends of the earth.... however, sometimes to great effect.

[J.A.W.]

I thought most of the original masters were lost. Was I misinformed?

Same here. I wonder which sources were used for these CDs.

i can almost guarantee you that they're japanese safeties that are used as sources. they're just being engineered and reengineered to the ends of the earth.... however, sometimes to great effect.

From what erwbol posted in this thread I understand that the masterings of the successive Japanese series vary wildly. I have bought and rebought impulse! CDs over the years trying to find discs with (to my ears) consistently good sound. I got the Erick Labson-mastered U.S. 20-bit digipaks with their boosted highs/lows, the Japanese 20-bit K2s which sounded as if compression was added, the later Japanese 24-bit UCCI series which also sounded heavily processed to me, some GRP CDs from the early 1990s that sounded very dull, and finally went back to the U.S. and Japanese issues from 1987 and the Japanese MVCI series from 1991; those sound OK to me and they have the bonus tracks the Labson discs also have and some of the Japanese series seem to be missing, but they could still do with a sonic upgrade - without all the processing, that is.

Edited February 4, 2014 by J.A.W.

[erwbol]

Hans, these ten SHM studio albums definitely sound more like the 1987 Crescent CD I have than like any of the other subsequent releases. Only, they're better.

There is no lifted, muddy, zooming bass on Meditations, no harshness in the tenor sounds (as difficult as that is to believe for this particular date). Quite soft on the ears. Easy listening, really.

Edited February 4, 2014 by erwbol

[Late]

This thread had me revisit Sun Ship, Meditations, and Stellar Regions. I had forgotten how much I like Meditations in particular, and how dismal the original pre-digipack U.S. edition sounds. I ordered the SHM-CDs of all three titles. These, plus Max Roach's Percussion Bitter Sweet, a record I love but didn't actually have on disc at all.

[Clunky]

I've always wanted to hear " Interstellar Spaces" , so that's the only I went for. I'm not sure I need "Stellar Regions" or "Cosmic Music" judging by the reviews. The rest are pretty much covered by various vinyl editions.

[Late]

I've always wanted to hear " Interstellar Spaces" , so that's the only I went for. I'm not sure I need "Stellar Regions" or "Cosmic Music" judging by the reviews. The rest are pretty much covered by various vinyl editions.

If you end up liking Interstellar Space, I think you'd like Stellar Regions. The latter is, in my opinion, one of the most accessible late-period Coltrane records; I personally think it's a stronger record than Expression.

Cosmic Music is more for Coltrane collectors and/or completists. The music is good, but (in my opinion) it's less essential.

______________________

Now — here's a question: I wonder if the Japanese SHM-CD of Interstellar Space will have the hidden track (or hidden "index") that the U.S. digipack edition contains.

[erwbol]

I've never been able to access that hidden track. How did you?

My NAD didn't recognise it, neither does my current Marantz. It also did not show up on the secure rip I made on my iMac with XLD.

Edited February 5, 2014 by erwbol