Impulse Coltrane on SHM-CD (Universal Japan)

[Late]

I've never been able to access that hidden track. How did you?

My NAD didn't recognise it, neither does my current Marantz. It also did not show up on the secure rip I made on my iMac with XLD.

As soon as your disc begins to play Track 1, hold down your scan button to go back. There are some (I forget exactly how many) seconds of studio chatter and playing before Track 1. They're not essential by any means, but I've always found it curious why they were appended in this "hidden" manner. I would have never known about them if Michael Fitzgerald hadn't posted here some years ago about their existence.

Now I have to dig out my copy of Interstellar Space and listen to those seconds (!) again.

[Clunky]

I've always wanted to hear " Interstellar Spaces" , so that's the only I went for. I'm not sure I need "Stellar Regions" or "Cosmic Music" judging by the reviews. The rest are pretty much covered by various vinyl editions.

If you end up liking Interstellar Space, I think you'd like Stellar Regions. The latter is, in my opinion, one of the most accessible late-period Coltrane records; I personally think it's a stronger record than Expression.

Cosmic Music is more for Coltrane collectors and/or completists. The music is good, but (in my opinion) it's less essential.

______________________

Now — here's a question: I wonder if the Japanese SHM-CD of Interstellar Space will have the hidden track (or hidden "index") that the U.S. digipack edition contains.

Hmmmmm......now you have me thinking, I really like 'Expression' , played it all the way through this afternoon. I got the distinct impression from the Penguin guide that "Stellar Regions" was just left-overs and not much meat.

[erwbol]

I've never been able to access that hidden track. How did you?

My NAD didn't recognise it, neither does my current Marantz. It also did not show up on the secure rip I made on my iMac with XLD.

As soon as your disc begins to play Track 1, hold down your scan button to go back. There are some (I forget exactly how many) seconds of studio chatter and playing before Track 1. They're not essential by any means, but I've always found it curious why they were appended in this "hidden" manner. I would have never known about them if Michael Fitzgerald hadn't posted here some years ago about their existence.

Now I have to dig out my copy of Interstellar Space and listen to those seconds (!) again.

That's exactly what I tried, but it never worked.

I first had a European pressing, bought upon release. That disc became scratched and I replaced it with a US pressing some years ago.

[Late]

Hmmmmm ... now you have me thinking, I really like 'Expression,' played it all the way through this afternoon. I got the distinct impression from the Penguin guide that "Stellar Regions" was just left-overs and not much meat.

Strictly in my opinion — perhaps others could chime in — I think Stellar Regions is strong enough to have made Expression a double album. The only track I'm not crazy about is where Coltrane plays alto.

[Late]

I've never been able to access that hidden track. How did you?

As soon as your disc begins to play Track 1, hold down your scan button to go back. There are some (I forget exactly how many) seconds of studio chatter and playing before Track 1.

That's exactly what I tried, but it never worked.

I first had a European pressing, bought upon release. That disc became scratched and I replaced it with a US pressing some years ago.

Hmm. Well that's no good! I just now got done playing the hidden index. I was wrong — it's more than a few seconds. It actually goes back, from Track 1, for 2:30 — but, oddly, music doesn't start playing until 1:35. It plays, suddenly, for one second (Trane's horn), and then abruptly cuts out. Then, almost immediately, it shifts to studio chatter — Rudy (or is it Thiele) calling the take numbers, and Coltrane talking to Rashied about his entrance. Coltrane says: "I'll start first, and then cue you." As soon as Rashied starts playing, Coltrane cuts the take, and says "You can come in stronger." So, as you can see, non-essential, but curious all the same. What's really weird is that, as the digital track counts down to zero (and the beginning of Track 1), when it gets to 2:00 — instead of going (as anyone would expect) directly to 1:59, it goes to 1:60! A bizarre extra second; I've never seen this on a disc before, ever. I guess it shows that time can indeed be shrunk and expanded — and that there's no better place to do it than on Interstellar Space, where Coltrane is our guide into the quantum cosmic wormhole.

[Late]

This thread had me revisit Sun Ship, Meditations, and Stellar Regions. ... I ordered the SHM-CDs of all three titles.

CD Japan states that these discs are available within 3-7 days. I received an e-mail today informing me that Sun Ship and Stellar Regions would now be available within 3-4 weeks.

Has anyone here had any luck actually receiving items from CD Japan when this type of availability update occurs?

[erwbol]

This thread had me revisit Sun Ship, Meditations, and Stellar Regions. ... I ordered the SHM-CDs of all three titles.

CD Japan states that these discs are available within 3-7 days. I received an e-mail today informing me that Sun Ship and Stellar Regions would now be available within 3-4 weeks.

Has anyone here had any luck actually receiving items from CD Japan when this type of availability update occurs?

Such delays more often than not lead to cancellation in my experience.

[Late]

This thread had me revisit Sun Ship, Meditations, and Stellar Regions. ... I ordered the SHM-CDs of all three titles.

CD Japan states that these discs are available within 3-7 days. I received an e-mail today informing me that Sun Ship and Stellar Regions would now be available within 3-4 weeks.

Has anyone here had any luck actually receiving items from CD Japan when this type of availability update occurs?

Such delays more often than not lead to cancellation in my experience.

That's what I pretty much figured. Dang!

[RiRiIII]

Thanks for this analysis.

Shouldn't also the all too recent Platinum SHM-CDs be added to the thread? I just received "A Love Supreme" from these series.

[erwbol]

Please give us your thoughts. I never bought any Platinum SHM-CDs myself, and for earlier Coltrane albums like A Love Supreme and The Coltrane Quartet Plays I prefer the APO Hybrid SACDs.

[erwbol]

Hmmmmm ... now you have me thinking, I really like 'Expression,' played it all the way through this afternoon. I got the distinct impression from the Penguin guide that "Stellar Regions" was just left-overs and not much meat.

Strictly in my opinion — perhaps others could chime in — I think Stellar Regions is strong enough to have made Expression a double album. The only track I'm not crazy about is where Coltrane plays alto.

I think the Penguin review would equally dissuade a newcomer from buying Expression. There is some very strong material on Stellar Regions. The fact that it is the complete date (15 February, 1967) including three alternates might give the impression of a bundle of scraps.

[RiRiIII]

Please give us your thoughts. I never bought any Platinum SHM-CDs myself, and for earlier Coltrane albums like A Love Supreme and The Coltrane Quartet Plays I prefer the APO Hybrid SACDs.

So, just before going to work, I played the whole Platinum SHM-CD through - the intent was to compare short sections, but I could not stop it. Amazing sound. Now I am playing the APO SACD (SACD layer): the new Platinum SHM-CD is definetely darker than the APO. The APO is brighter and louder in my system. I dare to day that the Platinum wins; much more comfortable and analogue. I ll repeat the test soon though.

Alex

Edited February 7, 2014 by Alexandros

[erwbol]

Wasn't that Platinum SHM of A Love Supreme released at about the same time as the blu-ray audio disc? Could they have the same mastering? Lon has the blu-ray audio.

From the description of the Platinum at CDJapan: "HR cutting from the DSD master which was flat transferred from original master in 2013."

Edited February 7, 2014 by erwbol

[RiRiIII]

Wasn't that Platinum SHM of A Love Supreme released at about the same time as the blu-ray audio disc? Could they have the same mastering? Lon has the blu-ray audio.

As per their listing details, the Platimum SHM-CD comes from a fresh 2013 remastering. No details in english (similar to the rock/soul Platinum-SHM CDs) are provided in these Jazz Platinum SHM-CDs sadly.

I doubt the blu-ray audio has this new mastering. I do not have it, but this is my instinct and the poor impressions I got from some blu-ray audio discs I purchased.

[RiRiIII]

Please give us your thoughts. I never bought any Platinum SHM-CDs myself, and for earlier Coltrane albums like A Love Supreme and The Coltrane Quartet Plays I prefer the APO Hybrid SACDs.

So, just before going to work, I played the whole Platinum SHM-CD through - the intent was to compare short sections, but I could not stop it. Amazing sound. Now I am playing the APO SACD (SACD layer): the new Platinum SHM-CD is definetely darker than the APO. The APO is brighter and louder in my system. I dare to day that the Platinum wins; much more comfortable and analogue. I ll repeat the test soon though.

Alex

I got really tired by the APO/SACD sound during the Part III around the chaos in the 5th minute of this track; thin/limited sound - a total mess etc. I immediately put the Platimun SHM-CD and it was an unconditional YES: thick sax, powerful bass, nice cymbals etc. I think there is no question here.

Edited February 7, 2014 by Alexandros

[J.A.W.]

Please give us your thoughts. I never bought any Platinum SHM-CDs myself, and for earlier Coltrane albums like A Love Supreme and The Coltrane Quartet Plays I prefer the APO Hybrid SACDs.

So, just before going to work, I played the whole Platinum SHM-CD through - the intent was to compare short sections, but I could not stop it. Amazing sound. Now I am playing the APO SACD (SACD layer): the new Platinum SHM-CD is definetely darker than the APO. The APO is brighter and louder in my system. I dare to day that the Platinum wins; much more comfortable and analogue. I ll repeat the test soon though.

Alex

I got really tired by the APO/SACD sound during the Part III around the chaos in the 5th minute of this track; thin/limited sound - a total mess etc. I immediately put the Platimun SHM-CD and it was an unconditional YES: thick sax, powerful bass, nice cymbals etc. I think there is no question here.

I think comparing an SACD-layer with a redbook CD is comparing apples and oranges.

Edited February 7, 2014 by J.A.W.

[RiRiIII]

Please give us your thoughts. I never bought any Platinum SHM-CDs myself, and for earlier Coltrane albums like A Love Supreme and The Coltrane Quartet Plays I prefer the APO Hybrid SACDs.

So, just before going to work, I played the whole Platinum SHM-CD through - the intent was to compare short sections, but I could not stop it. Amazing sound. Now I am playing the APO SACD (SACD layer): the new Platinum SHM-CD is definetely darker than the APO. The APO is brighter and louder in my system. I dare to day that the Platinum wins; much more comfortable and analogue. I ll repeat the test soon though.

Alex

I got really tired by the APO/SACD sound during the Part III around the chaos in the 5th minute of this track; thin/limited sound - a total mess etc. I immediately put the Platimun SHM-CD and it was an unconditional YES: thick sax, powerful bass, nice cymbals etc. I think there is no question here.

I think comparing an SACD-layer with a redbook CD is comparing apples and oranges.

Perhaps if the intent is to show which medium is "best".

If the question is what is the best commercially available physical digital product of this particular recording, and since this latest japanese remastering as inlcuded in the Platinum SHM-CD has not (yet) been released as SACD, then this comparison is appropriate I think.

[J.A.W.]

Please give us your thoughts. I never bought any Platinum SHM-CDs myself, and for earlier Coltrane albums like A Love Supreme and The Coltrane Quartet Plays I prefer the APO Hybrid SACDs.

So, just before going to work, I played the whole Platinum SHM-CD through - the intent was to compare short sections, but I could not stop it. Amazing sound. Now I am playing the APO SACD (SACD layer): the new Platinum SHM-CD is definetely darker than the APO. The APO is brighter and louder in my system. I dare to day that the Platinum wins; much more comfortable and analogue. I ll repeat the test soon though.

Alex

I got really tired by the APO/SACD sound during the Part III around the chaos in the 5th minute of this track; thin/limited sound - a total mess etc. I immediately put the Platimun SHM-CD and it was an unconditional YES: thick sax, powerful bass, nice cymbals etc. I think there is no question here.

I think comparing an SACD-layer with a redbook CD is comparing apples and oranges.

Perhaps if the intent is to show which medium is "best".

If the question is what is the best commercially available physical digital product of this particular recording, and since this latest japanese remastering as inlcuded in the Platinum SHM-CD has not (yet) been released as SACD, then this comparison is appropriate I think.

You're comparing different formats (SACD versus CD) and that's comparing apples and oranges.

[RiRiIII]

You're comparing different formats (SACD versus CD) and that's comparing apples and oranges.

I do not compare the formats. I am comparing the outcome of the playback as it comes from my speakers to my ears through my brain. Meaning I do not care if it is CD, SACD, DSD etc. I am only interested which of the 2 discs gives better audio results. Only this. But these are formalistic issues.

Do you really think that by comparing these 2 discs, the purpose of the comparison is not addressed? If an audio file was compared to a painting, then it would be apples and oranges of course. In our case we just compare audio files aiming to conclude, let's say, which disc somebody "should" purchase.

[J.A.W.]

You're comparing different formats (SACD versus CD) and that's comparing apples and oranges.

I do not compare the formats. I am comparing the outcome of the playback as it comes from my speakers to my ears through my brain. Meaning I do not care if it is CD, SACD, DSD etc. I am only interested which of the 2 discs gives better audio results. Only this. But these are formalistic issues.

Do you really think that by comparing these 2 discs, the purpose of the comparison is not addressed? If an audio file was compared to a painting, then it would be apples and oranges of course. In our case we just compare audio files aiming to conclude, let's say, which disc somebody "should" purchase.

Comparing the same music on two different formats is like comparing an expensive car and a cheap one. OK, that might be a bit of an exaggeration, but what I'm trying to say is that the standards of the formats are different, which makes any comparison meaningless in my view. If you're OK with that, fine, but I set no value on comparisons like that. The fact that you like the one better than the other is a matter of personal taste and I am certainly not commenting on that.

By the way, CD and SACD are formats; DSD is a technology used in the recording process, not a format.

[spelling edited]

Edited February 7, 2014 by J.A.W.

[RiRiIII]

No idea what you are talkin about, really. If i was comparing the commercially available disc with RVG's master tape stored in the label's premises, then of course it would be irrelevant in terms of discussing which disc somebody should buy. However, we are talking about 2 discs in 2 popular among us formats readily available in similar prices.

Also DSD downloads are actually offered for sale and are Playable as other "format". I was referring to these ones.

Edited February 7, 2014 by Alexandros

[J.A.W.]

No idea what you are talkin about, really. If i was comparing the commercially available disc with RVG's master tape stored in the label's premises, then of course it would be irrelevant in terms of discussing which disc somebody should buy. However, we are talking about 2 discs in 2 popular among us formats readily available in similar prices.

Also DSD downloads are actually offered for sale and are Playable as other "format". I was referring to these ones.

What I mean is that the SACD format has different standards than the redbook CD and that's why comparing the same music on SACD and CD is like comparing apples and oranges in my view.

[jazzbo]

I got in a copy of Stellar Regions SHM-CD.

Very interesting sound. Very detailed and a bit more dynamic than the GRP cd. Seems a bit louder as well.

In comparison, there are aspects of the GRP cd that I do really like, it's a bit richer in sound being a bit less detailed and a bit darker. The ideal digital version for me would have characteristics of both. Which is how I imagine a nice vinyl mastering would sound. Hmmm.

Edited February 8, 2014 by jazzbo

[erwbol]

I'm glad to hear you didn't think it was a waste of resources.

As for the earlier 20bit digipak Coltranes, some are better than others imo. For instance, I have no problems with the Complete Africa/Brass Sessions and Complete Village Vanguard sets.

The earlier studio GRP jewel case CDs like Transition, First Meditations and Dear Old Stockholm were ghastly.

[jazzbo]

No argument there.