43 posts in this topic

Welcome to September! (damnit!)

The link has been posted (), and the test is also available online. Please let me know if you have any issues. Now for the discussion! Let 'er rip!

Edited by Thom Keith

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1 – Good tune, good tenor solo, really dislike that “modern” guitar sound. The players obviously can play, but the guitar tone is so offputting to me, I can’t enjoy it.

2 – lovely. Very nice piano.

3 – Don’t normally like the sax quartet thing, especially on slow ones, but like this.

4 – Fun. I likely know the players, but would likely guess wrong. Hamiett Buiett?

5 – Lost on me, especially the vocal. The tenor player has a beautiful tone and control.

6 – In a totally different universe than I am.

7 – The artist really can play the baritone well, though I am less enamored of the rhythm section. But overall very pretty.

8 – Enjoyed this one, like the pulse, though it went on too long for me, the percussion solo lost me.

9 – Find the guitar offputting in this one also (though I like the chording at the end of his solo), but there is so much going on I like (especially the bass/drums, especially especially the bass player) that I enjoy this quite a bit and am very interested to find out who it is. Trombone makes me think of Ray Anderson.

10 – Pleasant without leaving any impact on me.

11 – Like the cello player a lot. Very interesting lineup, the violin player doesn’t grab me and the guitarist leaves me utterly cold. I love that cymbal-happy style of drumming that is used in places on this.

Interesting BFT, though not up my alley for the most part. Good educational opportunity for me. We have VERY different tastes in guitar players (likely a generational thing at least in part). Really look forward to finding out the details on #9, hope someone identifies it so that I don’t have to wait a month!

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1 – Good tune, good tenor solo, really dislike that “modern” guitar sound. The players obviously can play, but the guitar tone is so offputting to me, I can’t enjoy it.

I know what you mean.

2 – lovely. Very nice piano.

3 – Don’t normally like the sax quartet thing, especially on slow ones, but like this.

4 – Fun. I likely know the players, but would likely guess wrong. Hamiett Buiett?

Not Bluiett, but not a bad guess.

5 – Lost on me, especially the vocal. The tenor player has a beautiful tone and control.

6 – In a totally different universe than I am.

7 – The artist really can play the baritone well, though I am less enamored of the rhythm section. But overall very pretty.

8 – Enjoyed this one, like the pulse, though it went on too long for me, the percussion solo lost me.

9 – Find the guitar offputting in this one also (though I like the chording at the end of his solo), but there is so much going on I like (especially the bass/drums, especially especially the bass player) that I enjoy this quite a bit and am very interested to find out who it is. Trombone makes me think of Ray Anderson.

Ray Anderson is correct.

10 – Pleasant without leaving any impact on me.

11 – Like the cello player a lot. Very interesting lineup, the violin player doesn’t grab me and the guitarist leaves me utterly cold. I love that cymbal-happy style of drumming that is used in places on this.

Interesting BFT, though not up my alley for the most part. Good educational opportunity for me. We have VERY different tastes in guitar players (likely a generational thing at least in part). Really look forward to finding out the details on #9, hope someone identifies it so that I don’t have to wait a month!

I'll say yes and no on our takes on guitarists. A lot of this test is outside of my typical boundaries for that sort of stuff. Notwithstanding Sonny Sharrock, I'm very much a Grant Green sort of guy. ;)

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Interesting BFT, though not up my alley for the most part. Good educational opportunity for me. We have VERY different tastes in guitar players (likely a generational thing at least in part). Really look forward to finding out the details on #9, hope someone identifies it so that I don’t have to wait a month!

I'll say yes and no on our takes on guitarists. A lot of this test is outside of my typical boundaries for that sort of stuff. Notwithstanding Sonny Sharrock, I'm very much a Grant Green sort of guy. ;)

I'm with you on both Sharrock and Green, thx!

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Welcome to September! (damnit!)

The link has been posted, and the test is also available online. Please let me know if you have any issues. Now for the discussion! Let 'er rip!

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BFT126

1 This spiky little riff sounds as if it’s based on some bebop number I can’t call to mind. It’s as if someone’s trying to be cleverer than Bird or Monk. When the tenor starts soloing, it’s quite kind of nice. Can’t say I’m keen on the guitar; Jimmy Ponder used to put these queer sounds into some of his work in the early eighties and I didn’t really dig it then. See, the sound’s letting him coast. (Nice ending :))

2 Oh, after the watery opening, I expected them to play ‘Ebb tide’ or ‘Goldfish bowl being stirred with a silver spoon’ or something. Sounds like the sax player and the pianist should be playing unison lines but can’t get themselves straight. A nice pretentious piece. I haven’t anything against it except it’s pretending to be more than is there.

It keeps stopping momentarily – is that my computer playing up or is it something else?

3 Terribly corny sound the soprano player managed to achieve at the start, but it’s a bit better now he’s off soloing. But he’s still not achieving the penetration that is the real asset of a soprano sax.

4 A bunch of German drunks having a whale of a time to themselves. Reminds me of some of the music from the Marat/Sade.

‘Don’t spoil your pretty little shoes,
The gutter’s deep and red.
Climb up, climb up and ride along with me,
The tumbril driver said.

Don’t soil your pretty little pants
I only go one way
Climb up, climb up and ride along with me,
There’s no gold coach today.”

I think Peter Weiss would have liked this. Really can’t say I do. I see the bierkeller audience enjoyed it, though, so that’s something.

5 Rather thin sound the alto player has. The singer has a nice voice; a bit like a white Roberta Flack might sound if she tried to do this. She’s good at it, whoever she is. And so’s the tenor player. And the pianist. There’s no doubt this is good music, played and sung well. What I’m not sure about is why they’re doing it. Maybe the title of the piece would explain something, but not if it’s ‘Qh4y34’.

Did I guess the title right? :D

6 Not sure what to make of this. The rhythm section has a nice groove. The tenor player has a not too nice sound and not a lot to say with it. The trumpet player sounds nice, but also isn’t telling me the story of his life, or even of his lice. I’d quite like to hear the rhythm section with different horns.

7 Here we go, sucker for a nice big baritone sound. I can definitely sit and listen to him for nine minutes ten seconds and probably will. Well, after four, I’m kind of wishing there’d been a theme he was playing, other than ‘Goldfish bowl being stirred with a silver spoon’, because I can’t remember where he started off and where he’s going now. And I’ve no idea where the pianist is going now he’s on. I mean, it’s all very nice meanderings, but I’m not getting it and I can hear there’s something to get.

Gonna stop and get myself a cuppa.

8 Extraneous sounds from some whistling thing make this piece a lot more interesting than it would have been without them, but I’ve got to say that the interest is still only quite marginal. The extraneous noises got louder, but the interest didn’t grow… Oh well, they’re fading away now. Oh, nice neat ending.

9 Is this someone who’s been listening to that George Russell chap with his Ionian modes and such? I like the trombonist’s gritty sound, but he seems to be playing not quite but nearly at random. Don’t like the guitarist’s sound; too electronic, not enough sound of fingers, if you get me. Now we’ve a tenor player. I thought he knew what was supposed to be happening the way he came in, which was great, but now… this is what a lady friend used to call jazz wanking. Now back to the theme, kind of.

10 Nice theme, but not instantly memorable, I think. Nice tenor player. Nice trumpet player, too. And the pianist. Bass and drums are fine, too. Sounds to me as if all these guys were around in the fifties/sixties and didn’t need to be taught how to think right. I expect I could recognise one or two of them if I gave my mind to it, but I’m enjoying the music too much to bother. But this piece doesn’t seem to come from the sixties, it’s a more recent recording, perhaps some kind of reunion band or some such aggregation. Well, maybe the drummer is a younger guy…

11 Amplified string quartet plus rhythm? Could do better 2/10. Rock guitarist? 1/10. Well, I’m going to say Jean-Luc Ponty, just because I haven’t made any guesses yet.

Nice car. Thanks for the ride. Although I haven’t liked very much of it, I always find BFTs interesting; hearing stuff that’s off the menu is always stimulating.

Well, on to Fela Kuti’s ‘Perambulator’, then bed, thinking of ‘Him just a perambulator, him stay in de same, same place’ as I drop off.

MG

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BFT126

1 This spiky little riff sounds as if it’s based on some bebop number I can’t call to mind. It’s as if someone’s trying to be cleverer than Bird or Monk. When the tenor starts soloing, it’s quite kind of nice. Can’t say I’m keen on the guitar; Jimmy Ponder used to put these queer sounds into some of his work in the early eighties and I didn’t really dig it then. See, the sound’s letting him coast. (Nice ending :))

Not JP. I agree about the guitar sound. I might mention, there are actually two of them.

2 Oh, after the watery opening, I expected them to play ‘Ebb tide’ or ‘Goldfish bowl being stirred with a silver spoon’ or something. Sounds like the sax player and the pianist should be playing unison lines but can’t get themselves straight. A nice pretentious piece. I haven’t anything against it except it’s pretending to be more than is there.

It keeps stopping momentarily – is that my computer playing up or is it something else?

Stopping, I believe, is on your end. I had the same initial reaction to this, then I heard it somewhere other than from my own collection and reacted extremely positively towards it. It's grown on me and I think this album is the best of the artist's recent output.

3 Terribly corny sound the soprano player managed to achieve at the start, but it’s a bit better now he’s off soloing. But he’s still not achieving the penetration that is the real asset of a soprano sax.

4 A bunch of German drunks having a whale of a time to themselves. Reminds me of some of the music from the Marat/Sade.

‘Don’t spoil your pretty little shoes,

The gutter’s deep and red.

Climb up, climb up and ride along with me,

The tumbril driver said.

Don’t soil your pretty little pants

I only go one way

Climb up, climb up and ride along with me,

There’s no gold coach today.”

I think Peter Weiss would have liked this. Really can’t say I do. I see the bierkeller audience enjoyed it, though, so that’s something.

5 Rather thin sound the alto player has. The singer has a nice voice; a bit like a white Roberta Flack might sound if she tried to do this. She’s good at it, whoever she is. And so’s the tenor player. And the pianist. There’s no doubt this is good music, played and sung well. What I’m not sure about is why they’re doing it. Maybe the title of the piece would explain something, but not if it’s ‘Qh4y34’.

Did I guess the title right? :D

Nothing quite so Braxtonian. The title, however, *is* rather thin, IMHO.

6 Not sure what to make of this. The rhythm section has a nice groove. The tenor player has a not too nice sound and not a lot to say with it. The trumpet player sounds nice, but also isn’t telling me the story of his life, or even of his lice. I’d quite like to hear the rhythm section with different horns.

7 Here we go, sucker for a nice big baritone sound. I can definitely sit and listen to him for nine minutes ten seconds and probably will. Well, after four, I’m kind of wishing there’d been a theme he was playing, other than ‘Goldfish bowl being stirred with a silver spoon’, because I can’t remember where he started off and where he’s going now. And I’ve no idea where the pianist is going now he’s on. I mean, it’s all very nice meanderings, but I’m not getting it and I can hear there’s something to get.

Gonna stop and get myself a cuppa.

I need clarification on "Goldfish bowl being stirred with a silver spoon"

8 Extraneous sounds from some whistling thing make this piece a lot more interesting than it would have been without them, but I’ve got to say that the interest is still only quite marginal. The extraneous noises got louder, but the interest didn’t grow… Oh well, they’re fading away now. Oh, nice neat ending.

9 Is this someone who’s been listening to that George Russell chap with his Ionian modes and such? I like the trombonist’s gritty sound, but he seems to be playing not quite but nearly at random. Don’t like the guitarist’s sound; too electronic, not enough sound of fingers, if you get me. Now we’ve a tenor player. I thought he knew what was supposed to be happening the way he came in, which was great, but now… this is what a lady friend used to call jazz wanking. Now back to the theme, kind of.

That would be a lady friend reaction. My father would call this "man music," a term he similarly applied to the Larry Young sessions with Herbert Morgan and Tyrone Washington. I'm not sure I can define what that mans, but I understand it and seem to agree with it.

10 Nice theme, but not instantly memorable, I think. Nice tenor player. Nice trumpet player, too. And the pianist. Bass and drums are fine, too. Sounds to me as if all these guys were around in the fifties/sixties and didn’t need to be taught how to think right. I expect I could recognise one or two of them if I gave my mind to it, but I’m enjoying the music too much to bother. But this piece doesn’t seem to come from the sixties, it’s a more recent recording, perhaps some kind of reunion band or some such aggregation. Well, maybe the drummer is a younger guy…

I believe they're a bit after that, but the comparison also makes sense.

11 Amplified string quartet plus rhythm? Could do better 2/10. Rock guitarist? 1/10. Well, I’m going to say Jean-Luc Ponty, just because I haven’t made any guesses yet.

Not JL-P. Not sure I have any in my collection, to be honest. I'd dare say these folks are well further away from the bank than he is.

Nice car. Thanks for the ride. Although I haven’t liked very much of it, I always find BFTs interesting; hearing stuff that’s off the menu is always stimulating.

Well, on to Fela Kuti’s ‘Perambulator’, then bed, thinking of ‘Him just a perambulator, him stay in de same, same place’ as I drop off.

MG

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I need clarification on "Goldfish bowl being stirred with a silver spoon"

Half fill a glass goldfish bowl with water, stir with silver spoon, striking the rim of the bowl occasionally. Listen. Also reread #2 :)

Alternatively, listen to The Mar-Keys 'Ebb tide'.

MG

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I will be posting comments on each song, but wanted to weigh in with my thought that #8 sounds like the Art Ensemble of Chicago. Now I have to listen to my live albums to find this performance.

#9 is extremely familiar. I know this song! I need to ponder what it is.

This Blindfold Test is my kind of music, really great, great stuff!

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Save the time on 8. I like the guess, but not them.

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That really surprises me. #8 has so many details of their sound. When I saw the Art Ensemble of Chicago live they sounded like #8. This is really mysterious now!

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I embarrassed that I can't guess anything so far. I will post what I think the tracks are shortly.

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Here goes nothin'...

1 – The intro riff gets stuck in my head. The guitar on the left attacks like Scofield, though the timbre is rougher. Some really fine chops in the tenor solo, makes all that stuff sound easy. Guitar on the right also has a big Scofield influence. Nice opener.

2 – Anybody remember a Simpsons episode where they go to some fancy mall and there's a store called Just Rainsticks? The intro made me think of that. When it arrives, the theme is strong, with just a few notes, and I feel like I've heard that theme before on some other recording. This is a wonderful, concise performance with not a note wasted, even if I make fun of the rainstick.

3 – That soprano player sounds a lot like Garbarek. Maybe it's a bunch of overdubbed Garbareks. Not my thing, but OK.

4 – I think I've heard this and it might be in my collection. The trumpet sounds like Dave Douglas, and the writing might be his too, but then I have no idea who the bari is. Fallback guess would be Bluiett with Baikida Carroll or somebody like that, but you've already said it isn't Bluiett. Can't wait to find out what this one is.

5 – The piano solo and the comping show some of Mal Waldron's motor habits. I can't guess the tenor or singer.

6 – Somebody's self-produced LP from the late '70s? It's fun, even if the piano needs work. I confess I've never liked the sound of plunger over a harmon mute. No idea who it is, but I'll admit to being curious about this funky homemade thing.

7 – "Now In Our Lives," presumably played by its composer Park Adams, who should get more credit for being a monster MF composer.

8 – Sounds like something from Dudu Pukwana's neighborhood. I want this record, now, please.

9 – The dancing drums of Jack DeJohnette, probably in ECM land somewhere. I'm no good at identifying trombonists. Abercrombie on guitar? Maybe John Purcell on alto? I could listen to this all day.

10 – Is this a show tune I should recognize? Is that Mike Brecker? It's lovely. The spot of tenor-trumpet unison at the end of the chorus is striking and a great arranging touch.

11 – Rockin' cello! More than one cello? Not terribly "jazzy," but sometimes you want less jazz in your jazz, y'know. Yeah, I need this disc too.

This is a monster BFT, Thom! Many, many thanks.

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Here goes nothin'...

1 – The intro riff gets stuck in my head. The guitar on the left attacks like Scofield, though the timbre is rougher. Some really fine chops in the tenor solo, makes all that stuff sound easy. Guitar on the right also has a big Scofield influence. Nice opener.

Damned good ear - it is indeed Scofield.

2 – Anybody remember a Simpsons episode where they go to some fancy mall and there's a store called Just Rainsticks? The intro made me think of that. When it arrives, the theme is strong, with just a few notes, and I feel like I've heard that theme before on some other recording. This is a wonderful, concise performance with not a note wasted, even if I make fun of the rainstick.

I wonder if that was the inspiration.

3 – That soprano player sounds a lot like Garbarek. Maybe it's a bunch of overdubbed Garbareks. Not my thing, but OK.

Not Jan, but a very good reason for the similarity.

4 – I think I've heard this and it might be in my collection. The trumpet sounds like Dave Douglas, and the writing might be his too, but then I have no idea who the bari is. Fallback guess would be Bluiett with Baikida Carroll or somebody like that, but you've already said it isn't Bluiett. Can't wait to find out what this one is.

You may have it, but it's not DD.

5 – The piano solo and the comping show some of Mal Waldron's motor habits. I can't guess the tenor or singer.

Mal Waldron is correct!

6 – Somebody's self-produced LP from the late '70s? It's fun, even if the piano needs work. I confess I've never liked the sound of plunger over a harmon mute. No idea who it is, but I'll admit to being curious about this funky homemade thing.

I'm very surprised this one hasn't been pegged, yet.

7 – "Now In Our Lives," presumably played by its composer Park Adams, who should get more credit for being a monster MF composer.

Song is correct, player is not. ;)

8 – Sounds like something from Dudu Pukwana's neighborhood. I want this record, now, please.

Very much that neighborhood -- good luck finding it.

9 – The dancing drums of Jack DeJohnette, probably in ECM land somewhere. I'm no good at identifying trombonists. Abercrombie on guitar? Maybe John Purcell on alto? I could listen to this all day.

Spot on with JD and Purcell. Not Abercrombie, and you haven't guessed the leader, yet.

10 – Is this a show tune I should recognize? Is that Mike Brecker? It's lovely. The spot of tenor-trumpet unison at the end of the chorus is striking and a great arranging touch.

11 – Rockin' cello! More than one cello? Not terribly "jazzy," but sometimes you want less jazz in your jazz, y'know. Yeah, I need this disc too.

This is a monster BFT, Thom! Many, many thanks.

10) Not a show tune, though could be a contrafact. Definitely NOT Michael Brecker. I'll be shocked if he ever finds his way into my BFTs as he is barely in my collection.

11) I concur -- you will want this.

Glad to please your ears, sir!

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#9 is Peter Warren's composition, "Riff Raff", which I heard a great many times from playing Jack DeJohnette's "Tin Can Alley" album, one of my favorites of the late 1970s--early 1980s era. That is why the song was so familiar to me. "Riff Raff" is the opening cut on Side 2 of "Tin Can Alley" in the vinyl format, which is the only format that existed when it was released, other than cassettes.

This recording of "Riff Raff" is the opening track from Peter Warren's album, "Solidarity". Joining Peter are John Purcell, John Scofield, Ray Anderson and Jack DeJohnette.

What a great track! I was not aware of this album under Peter Warren's name.

I remember reading an article about Peter Warren. He said that he was in Dionne Warwick's touring band in the 1960s. He was impatient with the routine nature of the bass parts, and wanted to play uncompromising jazz. So he decided to quit, and planned to make it on the New York jazz scene, playing with the jazz greats. He was surprised when several of his jazz bass idols applied for the job with Dionne Warwick as soon as he quit.

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8 – Sounds like something from Dudu Pukwana's neighborhood. I want this record, now, please.

Very much that neighborhood -- good luck finding it.

I agree. I should have recognised kwela whistles, but they're so unprominent... This I really don't recognise, so it will be hard to find. Still, it has to be a track from an LP or EP, can't be a single, which does limit the possibilities.

MG

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#9 is Peter Warren's composition, "Riff Raff", which I heard a great many times from playing Jack DeJohnette's "Tin Can Alley" album, one of my favorites of the late 1970s--early 1980s era. That is why the song was so familiar to me. "Riff Raff" is the opening cut on Side 2 of "Tin Can Alley" in the vinyl format, which is the only format that existed when it was released, other than cassettes.

This recording of "Riff Raff" is the opening track from Peter Warren's album, "Solidarity". Joining Peter are John Purcell, John Scofield, Ray Anderson and Jack DeJohnette.

What a great track! I was not aware of this album under Peter Warren's name.

I remember reading an article about Peter Warren. He said that he was in Dionne Warwick's touring band in the 1960s. He was impatient with the routine nature of the bass parts, and wanted to play uncompromising jazz. So he decided to quit, and planned to make it on the New York jazz scene, playing with the jazz greats. He was surprised when several of his jazz bass idols applied for the job with Dionne Warwick as soon as he quit.

Nailed it!

Terrifying anecdote, but a real dose of reality.

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I guess Peter Warren is in New York still, though not active. I have that Japo album - good stuff. Bass Is, on Enja, is wonderful.

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6. i think is sun ra mid-1970's. i have this recording somewhere, even if it's not sun ra.

Edited by l p

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#1: don't know Scofield's discography so can't help here...

#2: Reminds me a bit of Ken Hyder's Talisker. Some of the trills sound Surman-esque but I doubt it's him. Maybe it is.

#3: Not sure. Is this overdubbed or four distinct players?

#4: band is 4 Corners (Vandermark, Broo, Lane, Nilssen-Love). Not sure of the track title offhand but I recognize the band.

#5: A Mal date I'm not familiar with. Maybe Ricky Ford on tenor?

#6 Not a clue.

#7 Sounds a bit like Bluiett, though if it's Pepper's tune part of me wants to say Ronnie Cuber. Not 100% here (though I'm terrible at BFTs). Excellent playing though I agree the piece wanders a bit.

#8 Perhaps Joe Malinga, though I don't think it's on one of the records in my collection (which all have piano).

#9 yeah, Peter Warren is happening. Nice choice.

#10 sounds like a more reigned-in Don Pullen on piano. Is that Cecil Bridgewater on trumpet? Saxophonist has shades of Murray and Rivers but I'm blanking, very familiar vibe.

#11. Not sure - not really my thing.

Nice BFT, thanks.

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6. i think is sun ra mid-1970's. i have this recording somewhere, even if it's not sun ra.

Then I was absolutely right on my comment on this - "In a totally different universe than I am". :smirk:

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6. i think is sun ra mid-1970's. i have this recording somewhere, even if it's not sun ra.

It *is* Sun Ra, and the vintage is correct.

#1: don't know Scofield's discography so can't help here...

#2: Reminds me a bit of Ken Hyder's Talisker. Some of the trills sound Surman-esque but I doubt it's him. Maybe it is.

Not Surman... but in a way, you're sort of close.

#3: Not sure. Is this overdubbed or four distinct players?

It *is* overdubbed.

#4: band is 4 Corners (Vandermark, Broo, Lane, Nilssen-Love). Not sure of the track title offhand but I recognize the band.

Correct!

#5: A Mal date I'm not familiar with. Maybe Ricky Ford on tenor?

Not Ricky, but a contemporary who leans a bit further out.

#6 Not a clue.

#7 Sounds a bit like Bluiett, though if it's Pepper's tune part of me wants to say Ronnie Cuber. Not 100% here (though I'm terrible at BFTs). Excellent playing though I agree the piece wanders a bit.

#8 Perhaps Joe Malinga, though I don't think it's on one of the records in my collection (which all have piano).

#9 yeah, Peter Warren is happening. Nice choice.

Thank you, sir.

#10 sounds like a more reigned-in Don Pullen on piano. Is that Cecil Bridgewater on trumpet? Saxophonist has shades of Murray and Rivers but I'm blanking, very familiar vibe.

#11. Not sure - not really my thing.

Nice BFT, thanks.

#10 is not DM, DP, nor CB. However, I like the idea of that lineup a lot!

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Track 6 is obviously Sun Ra. I can hear it in the piano comping. But I am having trouble identifying the album, because I don't remember a Sun Ra trumpet player ever playing that way with a mute. It must be from before the Michael Ray and Ahmed Abdullah era. It could be from a Sun Ra album I just don't have! I have many, but does anyone have them all?

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