Mosaic plans Beehive box

[JSngry]

Really, all the complaints about players not keeping up, bad bass sound, sloppy heads, all of that, this guy blames the players for that, like they're somehow lesser/local/whatever. Why not call that bullshit on the producer instead? Ultimately, the producer makes those calls, why you gonna project all this "lesson" bullshit on to it, like Clifford Jordan is using a record date with people he's known for years to teach school, that's just wrong.

[Larry Kart]

Gregory Herbert

 

(at about 4:47) https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=thbKApD9Q7I

 

 

[JSngry]

I had a college buddy, cat from DC named Otrie Barrett, who really heard Gregory Herbert. I mean this guy, he would buy Woody Herman records just to hear Herbert. I was like, Tree, jesus, what is it with you and Gregory Herbert? He was man, he's working on his own thing, I dig where he's going. And I was like, ok, Tree, you got that, then.

And then that Chet Baker album came out with Harold Danko & Herbert, and I began thinking, oh wow, Otrie was not wrong, if I was to buy that record, it would be for Gregory Herbert. And then next thing I hear, Gregory Herbert has OD'ed in the water with Blood, Sweat, & Tears, and the vibes behind all that were just really, really ugly from all sides.

What I hear here is a guy who's trying to not play anything cheap, and no matter what else, you gotta love a guy who makes a concerted effort to not go for the okie-doke when he plays his instrument. Drugs not your friend, but playing cheap shit when you know better, hey, you die either way, right?

 

Gregory Herbert

 

 

Sal Nistico Intersection!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sW9g8ZASaDM

 

 

[Larry Kart]

My good friend Bill Kirchner was a good friend of Herbert -- I think when they were both with Thad and Mel (Bill as a sub, Herbert as a regular); Herbert was one of his key musical role models. Bill wrote a beautiful piece in his memory, "Theme for Gregory." Bill has recorded it at least twice, on the "Bill Kirchner Nonet -- Live in Concert" and "An Evening of Indigos."

Edited October 22, 2015 by Larry Kart

[JSngry]

Really glad to hear that Herbert had at least one friend in life...the noise that followed in the wake of his death did not paint him as being at all likeable, or even tolerable. But you know how that goes...sometimes people take to the dead to get the revenge that they dare not attempt against the living. Besides, the road is a dark place, if not always, then eventually.

All I know is that the guy seemed to set a pretty high bar for himself, and sometimes people do that in a way that is not at all warm and fuzzy. But what are you gonna do about that, right?

[Larry Kart]

Some more thoughts about Herbert, in response to a post on Doug Ramsey's blog:

Bill Kirchner says

May 23, 2014 at 7:17 am

Thanks for this tribute to a largely unknown great player–though well-remembered by those of us who knew him.

Gregory spent the summer of 1964 subbing for Russell Procope with the Ellington band, playing lead alto. Not bad for a 17-year-old.

He told me that his favorite of all of his albums was Chet Baker’s ONCE UPON A SUMMERTIME, with the two of them along with Harold Danko, Ron Carter, and Mel Lewis.

It’s a tragedy that Gregory never recorded as a leader. He wanted to do an album with strings. He was a wonderful ballad player, so that would have been a natural for him.

 

gary anderson [the lanky tenorman in that "I Can't Get Next To You" W. Herman video] says

May 23, 2014 at 2:45 pm

Spent two years with Gregory on the road with the Herd. What a dynamic player whose life was tragically cut way too short because of stupidity and a bad case of being in the wrong place at the wrong time. Gregory tempted fate constantly with a “Bird” mission in the back of his mind. But all of that can be overlooked because he possessed a unique talent … that combination of soul, heart & technique that is rarely found in any player that young. I heard it on a nightly basis—whether playing for 10,000 people at a festival or 100 on a friday night at an Elk’s lodge … Gregory had it all in front of him. Oh, the notes we never heard …

 

Tom Marcello says

May 23, 2014 at 3:12 pm

 

A great, great musician and a terrible loss. His solo on Thad & Mel’s “Greetings and Salutations” (on the New Life recording) is one of the all time great tenor solos.

 

Gary Carner says

May 23, 2014 at 7:55 pm

Herbert was an extraordinarily passionate and gifted player. Thanks for giving him a moment in the sun. I have a Thad-Mel broadcast from Cleveland where he just tears it up on the blues Take a Ladder, really lifts the level of the performance. Harold Danko told me about one night in particular when Herbert took another blues solo. Thad was miserable. He had stopped drinking and was in a terrible mood. Gregory, said Danko, had that look in his eye that he was going to fix things. He poured his heart and soul out and Thad surrendered after a few choruses with a huge smile. It’s great to see Herbert in performance but this approach to the pop tune ““I Can’t Get Next To You” is almost a novelty number that handcuffs Herbert in an altissimo bag and doesn’t showcase his profound harmonic and technical gifts. I encourage all to hear as much Herbert as possible on record and on audience recordings.

[bluesoul]

http://dothemath.typepad.com/dtm/2015/10/baritone-madness.html

I don't recall having to eat this level of crow before:

[erwbol]

Really, all the complaints about players not keeping up, bad bass sound, sloppy heads, all of that, this guy blames the players for that, like they're somehow lesser/local/whatever. Why not call that bullshit on the producer instead? Ultimately, the producer makes those calls, why you gonna project all this "lesson" bullshit on to it, like Clifford Jordan is using a record date with people he's known for years to teach school, that's just wrong.

I'm a Bad Plus fan, but aren't some of their own albums a bit overproduced? I don't just mean the Columbia studio albums. A recent studio album like Made Possible contains an overwhelming amount of bass. Christ! 

That said, I love all their trio albums and look forward to seeing them at the Bimhuis next month.

Edited October 22, 2015 by erwbol

[king ubu]

taking off an hour or two to think of that word: discombobulated

[Kevin Bresnahan]

http://dothemath.typepad.com/dtm/2015/10/baritone-madness.html

 

I don't recall having to eat this level of crow before:

His updated review still seems to diss Brignola's two leader dates based on his negative impression of one tune and he still hasn't fixed his error of claiming that Ricky Ford played on Dizzy Reece's "Manhattan Walk".

[JSngry]

Charles Davis is still misidentified as Ricky Ford, and the question of how you can't tell one player's most-distinctive tone and phrasing from another's goes completely unaddressed (I mean, ok, Pepper Adams is your hero, and you can't even tell that it's him speaking? How do you kids today hear your music, all notes and no voice?),

But hey, that's a neat trick transcribing a solo on a plane, flashy! If you can't dazzle them with brilliance...

He should just withdraw the review out of self-respect, redo it with some intelligence, and come back when he's got something worth printing,

[king ubu]

No, it was a ballsy thing to do, ya know, cojones and toughguy-ny-isms. No button for withdrawing around

[JSngry]

Yeah, ballsy!

[king ubu]

EI's choice of words, of course ...

[Chuck Nessa]

Cheeky.

[JSngry]

Hey Dad, I just shit on Mr. Davis' doorstep! Ballsy, eh?

Did you go back, knock on his door, apologize to him personally, and then clean up your own shit?

Uh, no?

That's not ballsy, son, that's just ignunt.

Uh, Dad?

Yes?

Mr. Davis wasn't the only one.

And did you...

No.

Son, you not ballsy, you stupid. And if you keep this up, you ain't gonna have any balls left to try and be ballsy with.

You're kinda harsh, dad, gee!

Deal with it, son, deal with it.

 

[Larry Kart]

Wonder what Cuscuna thinks about sending him the set?

[JSngry]

We all know it's not a flawless set, there's room for critical comment, but that attitude...and that carelessness...not even RookieBall Matinee, more like Bush League After Hours.

He actually said:

Part of what I know about jazz is thanks to Mosaic.

Which is like....seriously? That's a professional comment?

That boy must not be eating right, he's acting all light-headed and shit.

Quite apart from all that, though, he IS right to call out that one Pepper solo, I'll throw in the Phil Woods solo from that same tune, equally marvelously fluent, cogent, and concise, and oh by the way, check out how Phil leads the ensemble on the transcribed solo bit...and listen to Pepper's freakishly fullsome low note when the come out of it back into the bridge. Top and Bottom!

[Larry Kart]

It all goes back to Menominee, Wisconsin.

[HutchFan]

Guys, I will say this about Iverson's blog: I enjoy it.

Sure, I disagree with some of his musical opinions -- for example, he doesn't think much of Martial Solal or James Williams or Chick Corea. I like them. But so what? Even when I disagree, I think it's interesting because Iverson is enthusiastic about the music, and he's sharing that enthusiam. He's a fan, and you can sense it. 

I particularly like Iverson's interviews. Fellow-musicians seem to open up to him in ways that they wouldn't with "normal" interviewers. (In some ways, they remind me of the interviews in Art Taylor's book.)  For example, in his interview with Fred Hersch, Hersch seems much more open that he would have been otherwise. I really dug their "shop talk" -- even when Hersch was bagging on my man Richie Beirach! I'm not a musician and I'm not on the scene, so that sort of thing is rare & interesting to me.

All that said, I haven't read Iverson's Beehive box set review, nor have I heard most of that music. So I'm not in any position to comment on y'all's comments.

...I'm just sayin'.

Edited October 22, 2015 by HutchFan

[JSngry]

It all goes back to Menominee, Wisconsin.

Lyle Mays goes all the way back to Wausaukee, Wisconsin, so don't blame Wisconsin?

OTOH, the touring hotel show band I was with in 1981 spent a few weeks in Eau Claire for one stop, We were an integrated band, and drew stares out in public, not hostile stares, mind you, just curious stares. The people themselves were quite nice, and they had a great repairman in town, who I learned about the hard way...we did a thing on "Mockingbird" where I came down front between the two singers and played the tune out, ending with a long altissimo note that I cut off by leaping up into the air and flipping my horn behind my back when I landed. Well, THIS time...the strap broke, and the alto (thank god it was just the alto) went hurtling through the air and made some serious impact with the stage riser, which, was, like, four feet tall and made of either cinder block or iron, I don't remember...either way, BOOM went the alto. BANG went the alto. GASP went the crowd. oh shit went the alto player.

So the next day, I'm in the yellow pages looking for Band Instruments, found the place in town that seemed to be THE place (I don't  know if its true of Wisconsin in general, but Eau Claire seemed to be some kind of serious school band town),, walked into the store, found the repair center, and said, hey, I'm in town playing at the wheveritwas and...the guy stops me and says, yeah, I heard about that, Tough break, when do you need it back? I saw they closed at 7, so I said, can you get it today? and he said, I'll have it by 5. I was totally all like whaaaaaaaaaaaa?!?!?!?!?!?!

Dude had it by 5 too, all hints of trauma removed, and oh by the way, he found a few pads that were beginning to leak, so he took care of those too. All for something like 50-60 bucks, which even in 1981 dollars was a helluva good deal. I thanked him profusely and he just said, hey, you need your tools, right? Exactly. When I go to my job, I need my tools. This guy got it, and for a total stranger. That old-world work ethic of I got a job, you got a job, we both got jobs to do, let's do them well and have all the right tools,

So...I don't know about Menominee, but Eau Claire was cool once you got past the understanding of why black people walking down the street was a novelty...we did not do so well in Uniontown, Pennsylvania, or Couer d'Alene, Idaho, the latter of which we did not find out about until we got there, and the former of which we only found out after we got out of there after one week instead of the contracted two, and I guess we were luck to have gotten out of there at all,

 

[Larry Kart]

 

 

Jim -- I hear what you're saying, but some young white jazz guys take growing up in western Wisconsin one way, and some guys take it another way. Iverson often reminds me of this:

Edited October 22, 2015 by Larry Kart

[JSngry]

"While it's true that adolescence has been thus far unkind, we think she's gonna be a future fox."

[Larry Kart]

For EI the flip side of "We are not worthy!" seems to be a certain  third-hand NYC arrogance -- a la "You are not worthy! Only people who have been accepted by Tootie Heath and Billy Hart are."

[Joe]