WTF Bill Cosby!!!

[Cyril]

Um, so? Women, and men, have never voluntarily used drugs to enhance sex? 

Was this voluntarily ?  Come on. When drugs are used to coerce sex, it's rape. Even if you're Bill Cosby ...

[Scott Dolan]

Um, so? Women, and men, have never voluntarily used drugs to enhance sex? 

Was this voluntarily ?  Come on. When drugs are used to coerce sex, it's rape. Even if you're Bill Cosby ...

You are taking a WILD leap in logic, my friend. Stick with your opening question, and then say you don't know. Because you don't. None of us do. 

[page]

I just stick to the comics. Newspapers are só depressing...

[Cyril]

I just stick to the comics. Newspapers are só depressing...

So, you've never heard of Jimmy Savile? Another disgusting man.

[sonnymax]

"Don't  you read the newspapers? Bill Cosby has admitted to getting prescription Quaaludes to give to women he wanted to have sex with."

Um, so? Women, and men, have never voluntarily used drugs to enhance sex? 

Have you read any statements by Cosby saying that he openly offered these women Quaaludes for the purpose of having sex, and that they took them voluntarily?

[Scott Dolan]

"Don't  you read the newspapers? Bill Cosby has admitted to getting prescription Quaaludes to give to women he wanted to have sex with."

Um, so? Women, and men, have never voluntarily used drugs to enhance sex? 

Have you read any statements by Cosby saying that he openly offered these women Quaaludes for the purpose of having sex, and that they took them voluntarily?

No.

Have you read any statements where Cosby claimed to have forced those drugs upon women without their knowledge and consent? 

Hint: the answer is no.

Now that I've answered your question, why not answer mine: Women, and men, have never voluntarily used drugs to enhance sex? 

No hints this time. 

I just stick to the comics. Newspapers are só depressing...

So, you've never heard of Jimmy Savile? Another disgusting man.

Ah, so if someone else is guilty of doing it, then everyone ever accused is also guilty? That would make for one HELL of a a justice system! Chairman Mao, please pick up a white courtesy phone!

Edited July 14, 2015 by Scott Dolan

[JSngry]

"Don't  you read the newspapers? Bill Cosby has admitted to getting prescription Quaaludes to give to women he wanted to have sex with."

Um, so? Women, and men, have never voluntarily used drugs to enhance sex? 

Have you read any statements by Cosby saying that he openly offered these women Quaaludes for the purpose of having sex, and that they took them voluntarily?

At this point, why would there even be any such statements to be read? Is it accepted legal strategy to admit to that much this early in the proceedings?

If even a few of the encounters involved consensual DrugSex, the statement would be "embarrassing", which is something it's been made clear is trying to be prevented here.

And if none of the encounters involved consensual DrugSex, the statement would open him up to claims of perjury, or even certain conviction.

I think we all know what we think happened, and I also think that the numbers lead to a logical conclusion that what we think happened most likely did happen at least once (ahem).

So, yeah, disappointment, outrage, disgust, etc. these are all healthy reactions to an unhealthy dynamic. But geezleweez, let's keep it between the lines as far as what to expect from who, in where, and when, all that stuff. Because the legal system is not supposed to be based on using emotion and probability as both starting and ending point and every point in between. There is strategy for both plaintiff and defendant, and asking either party to sacrifice those strategies "just because" is a little bit weak, really.

Now, speaking of strategy - Bill Cosby is 78, and presumably has some pretty deep bank (presumably). It's entirely possible that he has the resources to stall this shit until he's either dead or incapacitated or some other shit. So why the hell would he volunteer ANY information other than that asked directly, and why the hell would he not make EVERY effort to deflect every question asked of him that might have even the slight negative connotation?

So yeah, go ahead and hate on Bill Cosby, Very Probable Sexual Predator and/or Serial Rapist. But if any of us thinks that our justified hating, individual and/or collective,  compels an defendant to just go ahead and be stupid, like, ok, ya' got me, haha, I give up, I'm an asshole, go ahead, fuck me now, then....really? That's some comic book shit right there, Bad Guys Face Mighty Avenger and Get Cosmic AssSpanked For All To See , and is every bit as clueless as is thinking that you can go through life having TrickDrugSex and neverever have to answer to a complaint.

Competing fantasies don't make one reality, this is not  - x - = + This is - + - = 2-

Edited July 14, 2015 by JSngry

[Scott Dolan]

 

So, yeah, disappointment, outrage, disgust, etc. these are all healthy reactions to an unhealthy dynamic. But geezleweez, let's keep it between the lines as far as what to expect from who, in where, and when, all that stuff. Because the legal system is not supposed to be based on using emotion and probability as both starting and ending point and every point in between. There is strategy for both plaintiff and defendant, and asking either party to sacrifice those strategies "just because" is a little bit weak, really.

 

I'd like to add to this, let's also bear in mind that opinions cannot be substituted for facts. No matter how hard one tries. And that's really the only troubling part about this conversation. Several folks here act as though they know every last detail about these cases. Well, they don't. They've just formed opinions from media releases, that when studied with a critical eye, tell us almost nothing at all. 

[JSngry]

I'm not even sure how much of an opinion I need to have...I already have very strong beliefs about unacceptable behavior towards women, and have successfully (to this point) instilled them in my kids and practiced them myself (not that I was born to all of them, ok, but...evolve or die, as they say, and what I was able to pass on the my daughter about the Games Guys Will Try to Run On You is something she thanks me for regularly...tell you what, however much a dog as guys of my age were, these guys today have bumped it up to a whole new level, because they got young women to thinking that Sluts Are Cool is the STARTING point of a relationship). I already know that Bill Cosby has made some undeniably great and lasting contributions to American comedy. I already know that public personas and private realities are quite often polar opposites.

The only thing for me to have an opinion about is that Bill Cosby certainly appears to have done some pretty horrible things towards, with, and to women, and even if they all turn out to have been 100% consensual (which, again, just doing the math, odds of that VERY unlikely), all I'm really left with, is well, fuck that guy, and, you know, that list is already pretty damn long. May justice be served, and if not, that list is also already pretty damn long.

So, really, I already have my opinion, with or without Bill Cosby's face on it. Would rather expend energy in actions that can benefit the faces I actually DO or are likely to see.

[Scott Dolan]

And there's nothing wrong with that opinion. Just as long as you understand it isn't a substitute for fact (which you certainly do, but many here do not). That was my only point. 

It certainly doesn't look good for him. But just because that is my opinion doesn't mean that, yes, he indeed did it. 

I think society has trouble with such distinctions. 

[Soulstation1]

 

Edited July 15, 2015 by Soulstation1

[clifford_thornton]

 

Haha, indeed.

[Aggie87]

http://www.cnn.com/2015/07/16/us/cosby-accuser-details-allegations/index.html

 

It seems clear to me that most of the women who have claimed to have been assaulted/raped by Bill Cosby didn't voluntarily partake of the quaaludes he gave them.  He either slipped them the drugs via a drink without telling them, or essentially forced them to take the drug to "relax" in order to hang out with him.

Why they chose to hang out with him is their own business - whether it was to hopefully forward their careers or whatever.  The fact that he pretty clearly seems to have intentionally drugged them for the purpose of having sex with them (without consent) is slimy.

That's all opinion based on what's been shared.  I realize there are those that assume he's guilty until proven otherwise in a court of law, but that likely will never happen.  I'm guessing there will ultimately be payoffs to those who are still eligible for court dates to keep this out of the legal environment.  The rest will continue to be denied or ignored.

[Scott Dolan]

He still has at least one case pending, doesn't he? 

[JSngry]

The bathrobe seems to be a constant. You ever notice how rich guys always seem to have bathrobes? And how people who flaunt their bathrobes always seem to be assholes?

We can't save the whole world all at once, but can we at least look into banning bathrobes? They're creepier now more than ever.

http://www.cnn.com/2015/07/16/us/cosby-accuser-details-allegations/index.html

 

It seems clear to me that most of the women who have claimed to have been assaulted/raped by Bill Cosby didn't voluntarily partake of the quaaludes he gave them.  He either slipped them the drugs via a drink without telling them, or essentially forced them to take the drug to "relax" in order to hang out with him.

Why they chose to hang out with him is their own business - whether it was to hopefully forward their careers or whatever.  The fact that he pretty clearly seems to have intentionally drugged them for the purpose of having sex with them (without consent) is slimy.

 

In the case of the CNN subject's account, the first time appears to have been a case of outright deceit on Cosby's part, and that's for sure rape by any standard. But the second time...she had already had something funny happen once, and the drugs were offered as a condition of entry into the room, it's still rape if the sex was not consensual, but c'mon people, somebody else's evil does not always excuse your own stupidity, fool me once, etc. Rape conviction for Cosby AND Stupidity conviction for 2nd time victim willing to take unknown drugs as a condition of man who already had been shady with her. Not "or", "AND".

[Scott Dolan]

Not to mention the second time casts a shadow of doubt over her account of the first time. 

[page]

Even when you're acting stupid and should know better, rape isn't justified. It never is.

Edited July 16, 2015 by page

[Scott Dolan]

No, it certainly isn't. I apologize if may statement insinuated otherwise. 

[page]

No need for that, Scott. It is just that we really don't know why she made that mistake again. We can't look inside her head can we? Maybe she thought he would never do that to her again. Women often think it can't be like that, like women that get hit by their husbands and think it will get better and give him another chance. I've often seen that at work. Not that is what happened here, that is not what I'm saying. I just say we don't know why she made that mistake eventhough it was stupid in our eyes.

[JSngry]

We need to focus on empowering "know" as much as we do "no", perhaps even more. People need to know that what they think as giving somebody another chance may easily be seen as "coming back for more". People need to know that power is not an intrinsically benevolent force. People need to know that men and women do not always process sexual impulses in exactly the same way at exactly the same time. People need to know that just being in a position to have to say "no" is something that should be strategized beforehand, that trying to figure out what to do right when its happening already has you at a disadvantage. Men need to start realizing that trust is required from all people, and women need to start demanding that trust be earned. The way this society has functioned with males as providers and therefore protectors and therefore power-holders and women as givers and therefore targets and therefore vulnerable has become more (visibly) corrupt and broken, and perhaps most importantly, unsustainable, than ever, and must be addressed as forthrightly as possible. If we're going to keep populating the planet (or even if we aren't), we're going to need to have everybody on target to bring their A-Game at all times. I heard that 25% of the people who got this Pluto thing together - including some of the leads,were women, and that some asshole Brit scientist not too long ago made some ignunt ass crack about how working with women was a "problem" for him because of love and/or tears, and, you know, grow the fuck up asshole, EVOLVE..Smart, strong, powerful men and women should not pose a threat to each other, they should be welcome. It's the weak, the predatory and the people who accept their victim-hood as somehow "deserved" or "expected" that threaten us all. The people for whom things like power and pride are not accepted as something "they" should have in a healthy, balanced proportion within their personality. And I'm not talking about some kind of fucked up "survival of the strongest/destruction of the weak" kind of crypto-fascist thing, I'm just talking about everybody, from those who live out amongst nobody else to those who cannot find escape from anybody else, to start thinking in terms of the true and lasting gain that simple(?) values like honesty, trustworthiness, equal respect for others and self bring to all. The appeal is obvious, that's what people like Bill Cosby have sold so well, and that's why it really, really sucks to see how big a lie that was as he (likely) applied it to himself, in this one aspect of his life. Because, you know, most people do want to be good, they do want to do right. Not gonna happen all the time, obviously, but dammit, a young woman should be taught as a matter of course to have her eyes wide open at all times, and should not have ANY fear about dealing with any wrong that is attempted on her should that come to pass, nor for being ready to back it off when it starts to happen. And no man should ever be taught feel justified in perpetrating such an action, be it out of entitlement or expectation or whatever. We're not talking about castrating women and emasculated men, we're talking about desirable and necessary survival skill for a world going forth. Personal responsibility and honor, dammit, it's not necessarily an instinct. Educate, educate, EDUCATE.

and if that sounds like Cliff Huxtable, ask yourself this - what do you think Cliff would have told Denise if she was thinking about going back to see Bill Cosby a second time? And to hit it even harder, what do you think CLAIRE would have said to Denise? Claire would have not been delicate about it, I'm pretty sure about that.

Bill Cosby can go fuck himself. I'm still a fan of Cliff and Claire.

[Soulstation1]

I want one of Fred's bathrobes 

[Dan Gould]

I was sure someone would post this but I guess it's up to me. The NYT got their hands on another Cosby deposition.

http://www.nytimes.com/2015/07/19/arts/bill-cosby-deposition-reveals-calculated-pursuit-of-young-women-using-fame-drugs-and-deceit.html?_r=0

It's as appalling as you'd expect.

The money quote is that he equates giving the drugs to offering a woman a drink, with the obvious implication that his approach is the traditional "get her drunk then fool around" school of 'seduction'.

The problem is it's not a drink.  It's a powerful narcotic given to people who may or may not know how they will react to it.  IMHO it's like he's offering each of these women one drink that's really the equivalent of 5 or more. It might as well be a roofie-spiked drink.

He's disgusting.

 

 

 

[sonnymax]

I was sure someone would post this but I guess it's up to me. The NYT got their hands on another Cosby deposition.

http://www.nytimes.com/2015/07/19/arts/bill-cosby-deposition-reveals-calculated-pursuit-of-young-women-using-fame-drugs-and-deceit.html?_r=0

It's as appalling as you'd expect.

The money quote is that he equates giving the drugs to offering a woman a drink, with the obvious implication that his approach is the traditional "get her drunk then fool around" school of 'seduction'.

The problem is it's not a drink.  It's a powerful narcotic given to people who may or may not know how they will react to it.  IMHO it's like he's offering each of these women one drink that's really the equivalent of 5 or more. It might as well be a roofie-spiked drink.

He's disgusting.

 

 

 

I'd like to offer two corrections. First, Quaaludes are not a narcotic, they're a sedative and a hypnotic. Cosby wasn't trying to get these women "high", he was trying to incapacitate them. Second, he didn't "offer" them a Quaalude. Some victims say he encouraged them to take "a pill" to reduce their anxious discomfort, or to relieve their headache, or to ease their depression. In other cases, he reportedly offered them a drink that was spiked with the drug. And let's not forget the allegations of women who claim he sexually assaulted them with no drug or trickery at all, just physical force and social intimidation. Sad, and sick.

[Rooster_Ties]

http://www.theonion.com/article/woman-assaulted-celebrity-just-needs-sit-tight-40--50893

 

Woman Assaulted By Celebrity Just Needs To Sit Tight For 40 Years Until Dozens More Women Corroborate Story

 

NEW YORK—Realizing she might as well relax a little until her allegations are deemed credible in 2055 or so, 28-year-old Jill Garza confirmed Tuesday that she just needed to sit tight for around 40 years until a few dozen more women corroborated her story of being sexually assaulted by a beloved celebrity. “There’s nothing really for me to do except hang out for a few decades and just keep an eye on how many other women come forward with stories horrifyingly similar to mine,” said Garza, adding that she didn’t really see any other option except waiting around until she was nearly 70 as similar accusations slowly accumulated. “Maybe I’ll kind of set the ball rolling and actually won’t have to wait more than a decade to be taken seriously, but for now I’ll just plan to stay put and check in with my believability as a rape victim every couple of years.” Garza went on to say that the man who assaulted her would likely never actually go to jail, so there wasn’t any point even thinking about that at all.

[Rooster_Ties]

http://www.nbcnews.com/storyline/bill-cosby-scandal/bill-cosby-attorney-alleged-victim-has-made-mockery-settlemenet-agreement-n396136

 

Cosby Attorney: Alleged Victim Has Made 'Mockery' of Confidentiality Agreement

Cosby's attorney, Patrick O'Connor, believes the release of Cosby's deposition transcript violated the terms of the settlement. Noting that the woman is not asking to void the entire settlement agreement, he wrote that "obviously, she wants to keep what she was paid" but that she "cannot simply pick and choose which contractual obligations will be void and which will stand."

 

So on top of everything else, Cosby and his Lawyers are also now concerned about getting back the money from one of the women with whom he settled out of court.