Insomnia

[Tom 1960]

I posted this on social media and figured you guys might also provide useful info. Any help would be appreciated.

Insomnia. I have it. I've been going through this the past few weeks. I'm usually awake for at least an hour each night. At it's worst, I found myself up at 2 am and never went back to sleep. Still manage to make it to the gym by 5 and get through some very long hours of work. I usually have a glass of wine with dinner and a cup of coffee afterwards. Maybe another glass of wine or alcohol drink before bed. I cut out the drink before bed. That hasn't helped. I like my coffee and sometimes have passed on that with no result. I think part of the problem lies with sometimes working the long hours, getting home real late. Eating dinner and going to bed an hour or so later. I can't do much about that now. It's winter and we're short handed at work right now. Any suggestions, cure alls would be most appreciated. Signed,
Sleepless in Maine

Edited January 10, 2016 by Tom 1960

[Scott Dolan]

Brother, I really feel for you. I've been dealing with it more often than not for the past year! One thing that helped a little was replacing our 13 y.o. mattress. It's gotten better since then, but I'll still have a bout of it every now and then. 

Like you, I've also tried many changes in habit, but haven't appreciated any successful patterns. It's all just a jumble of random results. 

[sidewinder]

Maybe try a milky drink just before hitting the pit?

[mjazzg]

I have lived with it as part of a medical condition for over ten years now so I know how dreadful it can make you feel. Hopefully you'll only experience for a short period and find yourself clicking back into the old routine when the underlying cause passes.

My insomnia manifests itself as taking an hour or two to get to sleep, four to five awakenings a night and when more severe awake at 3am with little chance of returning to sleep

Things I've done that have helped is cut out caffeine totally. I still drink alcohol on an evening or two a week but will guarantee disturbed sleep if I do - it's the payback for some pleasure. I have a fairly strict late evening regime which includes a relaxation exercise and I find that not watching TV or using laptop/PC/phone right up to bed really helps to. It's about training my body into a habit of sleep. Bedroom temperature has been an important factor for me so I ensure it's as cool as possible (not great if your partner likes it warm ). Try and make the bedroom for sleeping so if you do find yourself wide awake, get up and do something non-stimulating like sit quietly listening to quiet music then return to bed when you feel yourself sleepy again - this does work and it avoids the lying awake getting frustrated and angry.

Good luck and I hope it passes soon

 

[Scott Dolan]

Excellent advice! I'm going to try to implement all of that into my own routine.

[Tom 1960]

Thanks guys for all the useful information. Please keep it coming!  The mattress in not an issue although I can't begin to tell you how old it is. When I find myself unable to sleep I usually head downstairs and sleep in the spare room which has a couch and a heater fireplace. I close the door and lie watching the flames and that sometimes help me fall to sleep. The heat also helps me fall to sleep. My wife says it helps me to pass out because of the intensity of the heat. Hey, you do what you need to do.

[Scott Dolan]

Yeah, you absolutely exhaust every option.

Our prior mattress was a cheap one, as we didn't have a lot of money at the time we purchased it. It was in such bad shape, there were little ruts in it where my legs were! It's one thing to have it sag under the weight of your torso, but your legs?! I can't think of a better sign that your mattress is completely shot than that! 

[mjazzg]

I forgot to mention Valerian tea. This did help when my insomnia was more mild, drunk close to bedtime. Doesn't taste nearly as good as that coffee or glass of wine/beer but does have the opposite relaxing/calming, non-stimulative effect, I found

[alankin]

If you're too cold at night and your partner doesn't want it warmer, you could try a heated mattress cover.  Some have split controls so you can only heat one side of the bed.

[7/4]

No coffee after 4-5, earlier if I forget about it. If I find myself up, a pair of aspirin sometimes helps or an apple.

[Eric]

I've had similar bouts with insomnia - very discouraging at times - and found the following to have more or less solved the problem:

1.  Virtually eliminate caffeine - I may have a cup of coffee early in the day but that's it.  Used to drink coffee and diet Coke throughout the day - no more.

2.  Cut out weekday alcohol.  Or, recognize that if I have a couple drinks in the evening, I asking for it in terms of a restless night.

3.  I don't eat after 7-8.  If I miss dinner for whatever reason, I skip it and look forward to a great breakfast.  When comes to dinner, I go for something lighter, with a focus on fruits, veggies and lean meat.

4.  I exercise every morning.

Depending on how my day is going, I find myself mentally planning my evenings mid-afternoon.  How late will I work, what are the required family or social activities for the evening that might impact the above.  

When I first started the above routine nearly five years ago, I thought to myself, how utterly boring my evenings will become.  Evidently that is the point and by my old standards they are.  But I can sleep and sleep well.

Edited January 12, 2016 by Eric

[7/4]

Getting up and staying up means I'm really wiped out by the next evening. No problems then.

[A Lark Ascending]

Not being able to sleep is dreadful. I've never experienced it for long - the worst thing for me was lying a-bed too long in the morning during holidays, something I got on top of 20 years ago. Even though I don't do the early starts (5.45) I did when at work I won't stay in bed longer than 8.00.

I do sometimes wake at about 3 and then take an hour or more to get back. But that's infrequent.

Working late and then trying to sleep used to cause me to not get to sleep easily. I learnt to have an hour or two gap between the two.

I went on to decaffinated coffee about a year back and have recently given up alcohol for other reasons (cutting back on sugar intake). So hopefully insomnia won't rear its head often. My dad suffered from it badly, mixed in with worries about his combat experience in Malaya in the late '40s which came back to haunt him.

I feel for anyone suffering from insomnia - wide awake but too tired to do anything useful. Can't even listen to music when it happens to me...it feels like the aural equivalent of eating stale bread.   

[JSngry]

Sleep is chemical, so I use chemistry. Tried to avoid it for years, but it got to where my sleep was, like, 1-2 hours at a stretch, and that's just nuts.

Sooo...

• Ambien. It's legal. It works. Does it create a dependency? I don't know, does one become dependent upon sleep?
• Sleepytime Extra (Valerain) tea - It's legal, It helps.
• 40 mg Melatonin - it's legal. It doesn't hurt.
• CPAP machine - I was having pretty bad apnea, this took care of it. Covered my most insurance plans.

This regimen guarantees a good, hard, fully effective 8 hours of sleep every night, from which I awake refreshed and alert...except on the odd nights where it doesn't, But those are very rare.

The problem I still have is taking everything early enough in the evening for the 8 hours to end in sync with my work schedule. I still like the night time. But as long as I'm out by 1 AM, I can still get up at 7:30 or so, bolt up with some stong coffee, and get going, achieving full alertness in the still early (enough) AM.

[Tom 1960]

Thanks guys for all the helpful advice. I had a bout with this crap say 3 - 4 years ago. I remember a particular instance when I was up at 1 am and never fell back to sleep. I still had to work that day. I remember taking Melatonin and that may have been the cure. I may have to revisit this and see if I achieve any success. Some of the things that I have control of outside of my work situation is can the coffee in the evening for either decaf of some sort of decaf tea. Maybe still have that glass of wine with dinner, but no drink at bedtime. I'm really thinking that my job may have something which has brought this on. I work for the Postal Service and throughout December into the New Year I have been working some serious hours. Working days off. Sometimes I don't get home till 7 PM, occasionally later. My workday begins at 7:30 AM. It's crazy shit! We're shorthanded big time. If you find yourself having dinner say anywhere from 7 - 8 PM and then you go to bed an hour later, that just can't be good? I have to get up at 4:30 most mornings to get ready to head off to the gym and I'm not stopping that. A poster mentioned waking at 3 AM. Yeah, that's pretty much a everyday thing with me. Sometimes I never get back to sleep before that alarm goes off. Going to bed at night is not a problem with me. I think I pass out from exhaustion. I have a doctor's appointment in a few weeks and if this thing doesn't clear up by then, I will mention it.

[page]

I've also been suffering this on and off for about 15 years now I think. A lot is stress and health related for me. I did solve it partly, f.e. not drinking coffee and just herbal teas at night since some teas can keep you awake as well. I try not to have dinner too late, not watching tv (scary series) before I go to sleep. The last year or so I wake up a few times a night and sometimes I can't get back to sleep. I know exercizing in the evening can be of influence so I try to do that earlier in the day when possible. Sometimes when I wake up I just get out of bed and take some yoghurt or something since it is better to get up a little while and then try again, rather than staying in bed while your eyes will stay wide open anyway. Sometimes I sing myself a lullabye, lol, that helps me to take the edge of since it is funny/weird and that way it helps to relax.

[fasstrack]

I've had this problem intermittently throughout my life. Now I'm in creative mode with a project, which often leads to it, and sure enough it kicked in over the weekend. I spent yesterday trying to crash after not sleeping at all Saturday into Sunday. My only advice would be to do what I'm doing today---although sleep-deprived---go on with one's normal routine and it will straighten itself out. It may take a few nights, but in my case it always has.

Edited January 11, 2016 by fasstrack

[catesta]

I've been dealing with this on and off for years. Like mjazzg it's very difficult for me to fall asleep when I'm actually trying and like erbowl I believe it is usually related to stress and some anxiety. I try my best to clear my head after getting into bed. I now have to insist that my wife mention nothing business related or start a conversation that is too heavy. She's out in like five minutes so it was frustrating for me to hear, "hey what about that bid due tomorrow" and then she falls asleep. Looking at an email before bed time was the kiss of death for me, so I no longer do that. Some nights are better than others but no matter what I always seem to get up several times throughout. 

I seem to do best when I keep my wake up time early and consistent and when my day has more physical activity and is less about numbers and business operation issues.

Maybe I'll try some of Jim's methods.

[JSngry]

Just to clarify, that is a method. I do all of those things every night. I have to, my,,,circadian rhythms (?) have not been "normal" for as far back as I can remember, I mean, literally, back to when I was 3 or 4. Aging and weight gain hasn't helped any, either, nor has living a life that was mostly nocturnal for all those years.My case is no doubt extreme, but where I once scoffed at sleep, I now treasure it..

Ambien works, I can vouch for it. There is a bit of a learning curve, though. You need to be ready to take it and lie down in bed. Don't take it and walk around waiting for it to work. Don't go online waiting for it to work. Just take it, lie down, and stay down. And DO NOT go to the icebox and open it up, do not start conducting taste symphonies with the contents, especially if you're in the middle of a period of contemplating orchestration and counterpoint, yes, you can do that with food, and no, Ambien Time in front of an open refrigerator is not when you should be doing it. And if you fall asleep to music like I do, set a sleep timer on your tV or whatever else it is that is playing it, if that applies, unless you sleep alone, in which case, here's the silver lining to that cloud. Ambien tripping is real, and it seems like a LOT of fun at the time, but I've never had any "day after" embarrassments on alcohol or anything else, but with Ambien, yes I have. So own the regimen, do what you have to do to NOT do all the other stuff. Because that good sleep you get is precious.

Also, if y'all are waking up in the middle of the night...see if it's tied to the need to urinate, and get that prostate checked if it is. Or even if it isn't. And ask your partner if they notice you experiencing any signs of sleep apnea during the course of an evening. Oxygen deprivation can wake you up too. Go to a sleep clinic and take a sleep test if you even think you're having apnea. CPAP machine are wonderful devices, actually, appearances to the contrary.

One thing I have learned about all of this, though, is that natural peanut butter and cream cheese on a rice cake is delicious, as is a natural peanut butter and pimento cheese sandwich on a good, nutty, whole grain bread. Just...fix them and eat them before you take your Ambien.

 

[catesta]

I was always a nocturnal person. Up all night, sleep all day kind of thing. Even after I got a real job, I used to stay up until 3:00-4:00 a.m., maybe grab a few hours and all was good. Shit hit the fan when I no longer wanted to be a "night person" and I know that is still to blame for a lot of my problems now.

[ejp626]

My sleep patterns are all jacked up, but it is certainly as a result of my choices -- staying up too late to try to get too much in any one day.  I wouldn't say I exactly have insomnia, since I fall asleep almost instantly but then wake up in the middle of the night -- 3 or 4 am.  I get up and surf the internet and work on blog posts, so it isn't terribly productive time, but isn't completely wasted either.  Then I maybe get two more hours sleep, and then I am grouchy at work until lunchtime.

So I know better, but it is a hard pattern to break.  Still, I feel the consequences a lot more now than I did 10 years ago, so maybe I'll wise up one of these days.

[fasstrack]

I'm having quite a bout lately. It tends to kick in when I'm in up, creative mode.

What to do? I do my normal routine: practice, write music, take long walks. Eventually the beast is thusly tamed.

[Scott Dolan]

I hear you. Sunday night I slept for all of a half hour. Work on Monday was just a bundle of fun...

[Tom 1960]

10 hours ago, Scott Dolan said:

I hear you. Sunday night I slept for all of a half hour. Work on Monday was just a bundle of fun...

Holy crap, Scott! I can't even begin to imagine what you're going through. Monday must been one hell of a day. In my case, things have improved with me taking melatonin the past few weeks. Much improved sleep with little periods of being wide awake. The only side effects is that I usually don't catch the alarm before it goes off in the morning and that I wake up feeling groggy. That's usually cured with a big cup of coffee before I head off to the gym shortly afterwards. I'm going to continue taking the melatonin for maybe another week and then stop. I hate taking anything for any extended period of time.

[JSngry]

If you get the chewable kind, it's like taking a Flintstones.