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Dave Madden, Gail Madden, Bob Graettinger and Mulligan

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From Barcelona, Andrea Motis. New to me:

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

I just finished "Fifties Jazz Talk" by Gordon Jack, and on the parts where the musicians from LA talk about Mulligan, three names keep popping up, Bob Graettinger, Dave Madden, and Gail Madden. Graettinger, I'm familiar with, but the two Maddens are new to me. Gale Madden, who took her name from Dave Madden, even though they weren't married, became a GF of all three of the guys mentioned above, and suggested Mulligan omit the piano in his groups of the 50s, and played maracas on a few of those Mulligan LPs. She and Mulligan hitchhiked across the US, from LA to NY, and then nothing is mentioned about her. Does anyone know what became of her after that?

Dave Madden played tenor in a bunch of big bands in the 50s, but Jack Montrose said his style was too 'avant garde' for those bands, and got kicked out of them after a short time (e.g.- he got kicked out of Woody Herman's Band after three months). He wound up playing in Las Vegas (Harrah's), and passed in 2006.

Does anyone know of any recordings featuring Madden's 'avant garde style'? I don't see any listings of recordings of him as a leader, but he did record in  a small group with a pianist Forrest Westbrook, whom along with Graettinger, went to the Westlake Academy. This was re-issued by Fresh Sound a few years back.

TIA

 

 

 

 

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What I can tell you is that when I lived in Albuquerque (1982-1984), there was an old dance band leader named Dave Willis who told the story about Gerry Mulligan and his "crazy girlfriend" passing through town and sitting in in some local dives. When I suggested Judy Holliday as the "crazy girlfriend", Dave was like no no no, this was long before that...and couldn't remember her name. Pretty sure that would have been Gayle Madden, then.

There's another story somewhere about the two of them sitting in with a C&W/Western Swing band in Albuquerque. The mind reels at the possibilities, all of them.

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37 minutes ago, JSngry said:

What I can tell you is that when I lived in Albuquerque (1982-1984), there was an old dance band leader named Dave Willis who told the story about Gerry Mulligan and his "crazy girlfriend" passing through town and sitting in in some local dives. When I suggested Judy Holliday as the "crazy girlfriend", Dave was like no no no, this was long before that...and couldn't remember her name. Pretty sure that would have been Gayle Madden, then.

There's another story somewhere about the two of them sitting in with a C&W/Western Swing band in Albuquerque. The mind reels at the possibilities, all of them.

Yeah, just the fact that this chick lived with Graettinger, makes her full of possibilities. And the fact that everyone who describes her used the same adjective to describe her.

Here's Madden with Forrest Westbrook in 1960:

 

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I was given that cd by Forrest Westbrook's daughter who was responsible for its release.  

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6 hours ago, medjuck said:

I was given that cd by Forrest Westbrook's daughter who was responsible for its release.  

 

6 hours ago, medjuck said:

I was given that cd by Forrest Westbrook's daughter who was responsible for its release.  

He was a very interesting player. He worked with June Christy for a while. Hopefully his daughter will put out more of his stuff. There was a kind of underground jazz scene going on back then with cats like Bill Plummer (who eventually went on to bigger things), Bob Harris (pianist), these guys, and others I've heard on private tapes.

The you tube video was put up by Dave Madden's son. I've ordered Mulligan's bio by Klinkowitz (?) to see if he has anything further about the mad Maddens...

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1 hour ago, sgcim said:

 

He was a very interesting player. He worked with June Christy for a while. Hopefully his daughter will put out more of his stuff. There was a kind of underground jazz scene going on back then with cats like Bill Plummer (who eventually went on to bigger things), Bob Harris (pianist), these guys, and others I've heard on private tapes.

The you tube video was put up by Dave Madden's son. I've ordered Mulligan's bio by Klinkowitz (?) to see if he has anything further about the mad Maddens...

She also helped Fresh Sounds release a Carmell Jones cd featuring her father. (I think he recorded it.) 

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2 hours ago, medjuck said:

She also helped Fresh Sounds release a Carmell Jones cd featuring her father. (I think he recorded it.) 

(Not aimed at you at all but at certain "others":) Ah, so this PD label DOES have some merit going where no other label ever bothers to tread ... ;)

Anyway ... the name Gail Madden distinctly rings a bell but I cannot trace where I have read enough of her to make this name stick ... Of the usual suspects of the West Coast Jazz books only the one by Alain Tercinet mentions here in passing as the one who encouraged Mulligan to shuck the piano. Gioia and Gordon do not mention her (at least that's what is evident from the index).

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2 hours ago, Niko said:

There's a lot of material about Mulligan, the Maddens, Albuqueque etc in this dissertation about Mulligan's early years (free download):

https://drum.lib.umd.edu/handle/1903/11136

 

An interesting document. Thanks for the link! I wonder if I'd care to print out all that for reading ... Though at very first sight I am a bit underwhelmed by the writing style. And quotes do not always seem to be spot-on, either (see end of #501, for ex.).

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8 hours ago, sgcim said:

 

He was a very interesting player. He worked with June Christy for a while. Hopefully his daughter will put out more of his stuff. There was a kind of underground jazz scene going on back then with cats like Bill Plummer (who eventually went on to bigger things), Bob Harris (pianist), these guys, and others I've heard on private tapes.

The you tube video was put up by Dave Madden's son. I've ordered Mulligan's bio by Klinkowitz (?) to see if he has anything further about the mad Maddens...

The Klinkowitz book is a bit of a slog IMHO - BUT does have a few references to the Maddens.

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I seem to recall that at some point (50's, 60's, 70's?) Gail was running a small motel somewhere in LA.

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arte+10%2525+Maracas2.jpg

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12 hours ago, medjuck said:

She also helped Fresh Sounds release a Carmell Jones cd featuring her father. (I think he recorded it.) 

Yes, he had a studio at his place in Santa Monica, and did a lot of taping of sessions. The Carmel Jones CD sounds very interesting; the sound on Westbrook's CD was pretty good for a home recording.Thanks!

 

8 hours ago, Niko said:

There's a lot of material about Mulligan, the Maddens, Albuqueque etc in this dissertation about Mulligan's early years (free download):

https://drum.lib.umd.edu/handle/1903/11136

 

Looks interesting, thanks!

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On 6/25/2019 at 9:00 AM, jlhoots said:

The Klinkowitz book is a bit of a slog IMHO - BUT does have a few references to the Maddens.

Just got the Klinkowitz. Like you said, just a few references to GM, but some very good analytical stuff on Mulligan's music, which is the main thing, anyway.

Unrelated to this, I just picked up Geo. Duvivier's Oral History book, along with Teddy Reig's ""Reminiscing in Tempo- Confessions of a Jazz Hustler". Good reading, assuming I survive four gigs this weekend with a car that's overheating, and a borrowed car from my ADHD/PHD brother who doesn't believe in oil changes...

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2 hours ago, sgcim said:

Just got the Klinkowitz. Like you said, just a few references to GM, but some very good analytical stuff on Mulligan's music, which is the main thing, anyway.

Unrelated to this, I just picked up Geo. Duvivier's Oral History book, along with Teddy Reig's ""Reminiscing in Tempo- Confessions of a Jazz Hustler". Good reading, assuming I survive four gigs this weekend with a car that's overheating, and a borrowed car from my ADHD/PHD brother who doesn't believe in oil changes...

The Duvivier and Reig look very interesting, but over here they cost about £60 (about $75) each! I've had the Klinkowitz for many years and see it's now obtainable for £2. I'm sure I didn't pay a great deal more than that for it.

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I’ve got a copy of the Teddy Reig - a bit on the short side but highly entertaining !

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12 hours ago, BillF said:

The Duvivier and Reig look very interesting, but over here they cost about £60 (about $75) each! I've had the Klinkowitz for many years and see it's now obtainable for £2. I'm sure I didn't pay a great deal more than that for it.

Yes, I've had my eye on the Teddy Reig book for some time too but the online prices I've seen are outrageous, particularly for the number of pages that appears rather slim (VERY contrary to the main protagonist of the book :D).

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I think the Reig book is essential.

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I was finally able to access the dissertation on Mulligan's early career. Thanks again Niko for unearthing it.

I think it pretty much covered Madden's involvement with the jazz scene in both NY and California. It pretty much ended when she told Mulligan that she should leave him so he could develop on his own, without her encroaching on his freedom. Unfortunately, without her help, Mulligan went back on heroin, and wound up in jail.

This leaves us with only two questions:

1) What became of her after splitting with Mulligan? We only have Quasimodo's recollection that she was running a small motel somewhere in LA in either the 50s, 60s or 70s.

2) What did she look like?  We know she was a model, so she must have been good looking. We know she had big boobs, because Jerry Lloyd got kicked out of  a rehearsal when he started making jokes about her tits bouncing up and down when she played the maracas. And finally, we know, "according to Bob Whitlock, she was even freakier looking than Bob Graettinger"!!!!!!!!!!!    If you've ever seen pictures of Graettinger, that alone should justify interest in seeing a picture of her. I was told by someone on another forum, after he had done an unsuccessful search on her, to use my imagination, but that will not suffice. Hence, I challenge the brilliant jazz minds of Organissimo: "Bring me the head of Gail Madden!"
 

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