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tkeith

BFT196 Link & Discussion

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If I can make a suggestion... I think we should have separate threads for the link and for the discussion.  Many people have commented that after the first few days, discussion severely drops off.  Perhaps that's because people can see what the first posters have (often correctly) guessed, and that spoils the fun for them.  If the link runs in its own thread, people won't see what's already been posted unless they want to.

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Track 4: Now there's a tune I know  very well, but can I name it!

Track 6: Ellington orch w Jimmy Jones, Dizzy and Jimmy Rushing.

Track 7: "My Old Flame"

Track 10: Another of those tunes I know but can't name.

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Wish I could identify #4 too. I will say its someone for whom bop isn't there usual jazz language.

I am guessing BillF didn't let track 5 go long enough for him to get to "Lush Life"?

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Track 12: Ronnie Cuber?

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Who is the most adept mid-period Trane imitator? Because that's the vibe I get on #8.

Definitely a mixed bag for me, beginning and most of the last cuts were tough to stick with but middle tracks were way better.

Please someone put me (and perhaps Bill) out of our misery and  remind us the name of track 4. :g

 

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Track 4 is the Jackie McLean composition "Little Melonae."

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As played by Frank Lowe!

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Posted (edited)

1 – Mingus’s “Weird Nightmare” by Frank Lacy (on vocals) and the Mingus Big Band from “Mingus Sings”.  Frank Lacy  is a very fine trombonist.  ‘Nuff said.

 

2 – No idea, but I like it quite a bit.  Does entire album hold up this well?

 

3 – Beaver Harris’s “African Drums” by David S. Ware from “Surrendered”, the one Ware CD I have kept (for this cut).  Love the many recordings of this by Archie Shepp and by Harris himself, and this is a fine version, well suited to Ware & Co.

 

4 – Enjoyable.  Monk tune that I’m not naming correctly in my head (I do that a lot with him).  Early 60’s recording?   Sort of dating it by the rhythm section approach.  I should probably know who/what this is. 

 

5 – I tend to not be big on duets with piano and horn.  Obviously, they both can play.

 

6 – Da blooze.  Somewhat of a self-parody, though they sound like they’re having fun.  Dizzy on trumpet?

 

7 – Very very well played, but I tend to “appreciate” this sort of thing more than I like or play it.  But masterful at what they are doing. 

 

8 – Right up one of my alleys.  I have so much of this sort of thing, but constantly enjoy it.

 

9 – Love it,  the feel is just me.  Maybe not as technically “good” as, say, #7, but much more satisfying to me, and this sort of thing is what I spend long hours listening to.

 

10 – That’s a really interesting version of Hubbard’s “Little Sunflower”.  The drummer absolutely knocks me out on this, and I really like the trumpet player.    I should probably recognize this, but don’t.  Hamiett Bluiett on bari?  Did I mention I’m loving the drummer?  And how about that drummer?

 

11 – I probably “should” like this from the get-go, but it actually took me a good while to semi-get into it, even though each and every one of them plays their instruments really well.

 

12 – I do not like what they did with guitars the past few decades, just don’t like that sound.  The composition and arrangement, on the other hand, I like a lot.  Sort of an update of the Pharoah Sanders Impulse arrangement,  smoothed out for modern ears and applied to a well-known song (which my tired ears/brain is not placing).   The pianist even sounds like he listened to Lonnie Liston Smith on those Pharoah records and learned his lessons well, so I’m gonna guess this is later Pharoah.  If not, certainly someone deeply influenced and inspired by him.  Hard to keep up with 50 years of recordings, even by your favorites.  I do like it, despite the guitar.  

Thanks for the good music, very much looking forward to the reveals on 2,8,9,10,12.

 

Edited by felser

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4 hours ago, mjzee said:

Track 4 is the Jackie McLean composition "Little Melonae."

Ah, yes!

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#11 = George Adams ECM, good advice, then and now.

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ok, the scene is clean, but maybe a bit more fun when it wasn't?

no matter, that cat can play, and this groove is totally a part of his personal heritage, if not as a youth, then just over the course of time. I dig him.

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1: Nice vocal track. Mature voice with an R&B flavor. Great backing on an old school track

2: Cool production, dubbed out effects on the horn with some nice percussive backing. Dig the marimba and the electronic effects later on. 

3: Love this track too. Rhythm section builds tension while the sax goes off, very much in that spiritual jazz vein. 

4. Interesting, a little off kilter like the sax is dancing around the rhythm section. Good track

5. Ballad - nice change of pace. 

6. Fun big band track. 

Will do the others later. I'm terrible at guessing artists, obviously. Enjoying the music so far though. 

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Posted (edited)

1.     This is “Weird Nightmare,” the Mingus tune.  I have no idea on the singer or the artists, but this is nicely done.

2.     Interesting piece.  It seems dominated by bass, which is a bit reminiscent of Charlie Haden.  Nice use of marimba (I think) and some Methney-esque guitar.  But I have no idea who this might be.

3.     I thought this was going to break into “My Favorite Things.” Tenor is brawny and shows the Coltrane influence. In fact, the entire band is emulating the Trane quartet.

4.     That’s a Jackie McLean tune.  I can’t think of which one, but I have heard it many times.  Sounds like sax-bass-drums.  The short length and overall sound suggest an older piece, but I have no guess.  For some reason, this is not very compelling.

5.     The tenor sounds very mellow and relaxed; nice piano, not overplaying. This is “Lush Life,” though it takes awhile to become clearly apparent. This is a fine performance, and it holds up well to what Coltrane and others have done with it.  This version is distinctive, but I can’t place the artist. 

6.     Ah, very cool swing feel. It makes me think of Basie, though some elements suggest someone else.  But now Jimmy Rushing enters, so maybe it is Basie.   Ah, Dizzy for sure!  This is from Ellington’s Jazz Party.  But that was not Duke at the piano (pretty sure of that). This is pure jazz joy!

7.     Classic jazz…I should know this.  An Ellington piece?  It sounds like someone with a good feeling for this style of tenor playing.  Ricky Ford?  Scott Hamilton?

8.     More cool tenor, traditional sounding.  Nice drive and rhythm from piano/bass/drums; I especially like the bass.  Reminds me a bit of George Adams, though George nearly always played in a more over-heated style.  Good stuff, whoever it is.

9.     This sounds like Coltrane modal style, though I don’t think there’s any tenor or any sax here.  Trumpet is kind of thick and blurry; the pianist is over-busy in some spots.  Not bad.  You just have to let this flow over you.

10. Cool enough mix of elements—burnished trumpet and thumping deep baritone, drums usually playing rather freely.  No guesses.

11. I’ll just say that I have no idea.

12. Sort of like tropical jazz, a little too close to smooth for my taste.

   

Edited by Milestones

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Posted (edited)

On 7/1/2020 at 10:19 AM, mjzee said:

If I can make a suggestion... I think we should have separate threads for the link and for the discussion.  Many people have commented that after the first few days, discussion severely drops off.  Perhaps that's because people can see what the first posters have (often correctly) guessed, and that spoils the fun for them.  If the link runs in its own thread, people won't see what's already been posted unless they want to.

Not opposed to it, but I've never had any spoilers -- I just look at the first post.  But I'm open to it moving forward (discussion has already started on this one). 

On 7/1/2020 at 10:46 AM, BillF said:

Track 4: Now there's a tune I know  very well, but can I name it!

Yes, you do.

Quote

Track 6: Ellington orch w Jimmy Jones, Dizzy and Jimmy Rushing.

Correct, sir!  This is the gimme (although, JJ is only a gimme for the insiders).

Quote

Track 7: "My Old Flame"

Correct!

Quote

Track 10: Another of those tunes I know but can't name.

Indeed you do!

On 7/1/2020 at 10:53 AM, Dan Gould said:

Wish I could identify #4 too. I will say its someone for whom bop isn't there usual jazz language.

True.  Has the language, but it's not the one he uses to communicate.

Quote

I am guessing BillF didn't let track 5 go long enough for him to get to "Lush Life"?

Must not have.

On 7/1/2020 at 10:55 AM, BillF said:

Track 12: Ronnie Cuber?

Yep!

On 7/1/2020 at 11:20 AM, Dan Gould said:

Who is the most adept mid-period Trane imitator? Because that's the vibe I get on #8.

I'd label this guy more original than that, but this track definitely goes more Trane than he usually does (but manages to still be THIS guy). 

Quote

Definitely a mixed bag for me, beginning and most of the last cuts were tough to stick with but middle tracks were way better.

Please someone put me (and perhaps Bill) out of our misery and  remind us the name of track 4. :g

 

:D

 

On 7/1/2020 at 11:34 AM, mjzee said:

Track 4 is the Jackie McLean composition "Little Melonae."

DING!  DING!

On 7/2/2020 at 8:39 PM, JSngry said:

#11 = George Adams ECM, good advice, then and now.

DING!  DING!

On 7/2/2020 at 9:03 PM, JSngry said:

ok, the scene is clean, but maybe a bit more fun when it wasn't?

no matter, that cat can play, and this groove is totally a part of his personal heritage, if not as a youth, then just over the course of time. I dig him.

Wow!

22 hours ago, Dub Modal said:

1: Nice vocal track. Mature voice with an R&B flavor. Great backing on an old school track

BIG fan of this "singer".

Quote

2: Cool production, dubbed out effects on the horn with some nice percussive backing. Dig the marimba and the electronic effects later on. 

I'll be surprised if anyone pegs this one.

Quote

3: Love this track too. Rhythm section builds tension while the sax goes off, very much in that spiritual jazz vein. 

Yeah, that's how I hear it, too.

Quote

4. Interesting, a little off kilter like the sax is dancing around the rhythm section. Good track

Almost like he's dancing to the beat of a different drummer, no?

Quote

5. Ballad - nice change of pace. 

Wanted a different take on this classic.

Quote

6. Fun big band track. 

Will do the others later. I'm terrible at guessing artists, obviously. Enjoying the music so far though. 

Most players ID'd -- rest of it (title, album) are still up for grabs.

 

On 7/1/2020 at 11:43 AM, JSngry said:

As played by Frank Lowe!

Correct!

Edited by tkeith

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On 7/1/2020 at 1:08 PM, felser said:

1 – Mingus’s “Weird Nightmare” by Frank Lacy (on vocals) and the Mingus Big Band from “Mingus Sings”.  Frank Lacy  is a very fine trombonist.  ‘Nuff said.

Correct!

On 7/1/2020 at 1:08 PM, felser said:

2 – No idea, but I like it quite a bit.  Does entire album hold up this well?

Not sure, yet.  I think it will, but this track had the best of all (shorter length, good feel).

On 7/1/2020 at 1:08 PM, felser said:

3 – Beaver Harris’s “African Drums” by David S. Ware from “Surrendered”, the one Ware CD I have kept (for this cut).  Love the many recordings of this by Archie Shepp and by Harris himself, and this is a fine version, well suited to Ware & Co.

Correct!  Flight of i is still my favorite album, though.

On 7/1/2020 at 1:08 PM, felser said:

4 – Enjoyable.  Monk tune that I’m not naming correctly in my head (I do that a lot with him).  Early 60’s recording?   Sort of dating it by the rhythm section approach.  I should probably know who/what this is. 

Right ballpark, wrong composer.  ID'd by mjzee.

On 7/1/2020 at 1:08 PM, felser said:

5 – I tend to not be big on duets with piano and horn.  Obviously, they both can play.

I'm kind of hoping to get a wrong guess on this one.

On 7/1/2020 at 1:08 PM, felser said:

6 – Da blooze.  Somewhat of a self-parody, though they sound like they’re having fun.  Dizzy on trumpet?

Indeed.

On 7/1/2020 at 1:08 PM, felser said:

7 – Very very well played, but I tend to “appreciate” this sort of thing more than I like or play it.  But masterful at what they are doing. 

You just described this player perfectly, in my mind.

On 7/1/2020 at 1:08 PM, felser said:

8 – Right up one of my alleys.  I have so much of this sort of thing, but constantly enjoy it.

Agreed.

On 7/1/2020 at 1:08 PM, felser said:

9 – Love it,  the feel is just me.  Maybe not as technically “good” as, say, #7, but much more satisfying to me, and this sort of thing is what I spend long hours listening to.

Right there with you, my brother.

On 7/1/2020 at 1:08 PM, felser said:

10 – That’s a really interesting version of Hubbard’s “Little Sunflower”.  The drummer absolutely knocks me out on this, and I really like the trumpet player.    I should probably recognize this, but don’t.  Hamiett Bluiett on bari?  Did I mention I’m loving the drummer?  And how about that drummer?

You should.  Not Bluiett, but this guy would be flattered by the comp, but also has very much his own thing.

On 7/1/2020 at 1:08 PM, felser said:

11 – I probably “should” like this from the get-go, but it actually took me a good while to semi-get into it, even though each and every one of them plays their instruments really well.

Give it another spin.  I'll be surprised if you don't own this.

On 7/1/2020 at 1:08 PM, felser said:

12 – I do not like what they did with guitars the past few decades, just don’t like that sound.  The composition and arrangement, on the other hand, I like a lot.  Sort of an update of the Pharoah Sanders Impulse arrangement,  smoothed out for modern ears and applied to a well-known song (which my tired ears/brain is not placing).   The pianist even sounds like he listened to Lonnie Liston Smith on those Pharoah records and learned his lessons well, so I’m gonna guess this is later Pharoah.  If not, certainly someone deeply influenced and inspired by him.  Hard to keep up with 50 years of recordings, even by your favorites.  I do like it, despite the guitar.  

 

I agree about what has happened to the guitar sound -- give me Grant Green!  You have nailed everything about this except what it is.  And you're more right than you can fathom.

On 7/1/2020 at 1:08 PM, felser said:

Thanks for the good music, very much looking forward to the reveals on 2,8,9,10,12.

 

 

11 hours ago, Milestones said:

1.     This is “Weird Nightmare,” the Mingus tune.  I have no idea on the singer or the artists, but this is nicely done.

Correct!  ID'd above.

11 hours ago, Milestones said:

2.     Interesting piece.  It seems dominated by bass, which is a bit reminiscent of Charlie Haden.  Nice use of marimba (I think) and some Methney-esque guitar.  But I have no idea who this might be.

This one is the challenge of the group.

11 hours ago, Milestones said:

3.     I thought this was going to break into “My Favorite Things.” Tenor is brawny and shows the Coltrane influence. In fact, the entire band is emulating the Trane quartet.

They are, but also being true to themselves.  This group doesn't get any respect from the Crouch-follower-set, and I always took this cut as a slight FU to the doubters.

11 hours ago, Milestones said:

4.     That’s a Jackie McLean tune.  I can’t think of which one, but I have heard it many times.  Sounds like sax-bass-drums.  The short length and overall sound suggest an older piece, but I have no guess.  For some reason, this is not very compelling.

Tune is correct.  Description of the format is accurate, and a key to what this is and how it came about.  This saxophonist is an acquired taste due to his approach.

11 hours ago, Milestones said:

5.     The tenor sounds very mellow and relaxed; nice piano, not overplaying. This is “Lush Life,” though it takes awhile to become clearly apparent. This is a fine performance, and it holds up well to what Coltrane and others have done with it.  This version is distinctive, but I can’t place the artist. 

I assume someone will get this player, if only because nobody's taken the bait and guessed incorrectly.

11 hours ago, Milestones said:

6.     Ah, very cool swing feel. It makes me think of Basie, though some elements suggest someone else.  But now Jimmy Rushing enters, so maybe it is Basie.   Ah, Dizzy for sure!  This is from Ellington’s Jazz Party.  But that was not Duke at the piano (pretty sure of that). This is pure jazz joy!

Ding! Ding!  This is the recording that introduced me to Jimmy Jones.  Recognizing JJ is what led to me becoming a regular in these parts. 

11 hours ago, Milestones said:

7.     Classic jazz…I should know this.  An Ellington piece?  It sounds like someone with a good feeling for this style of tenor playing.  Ricky Ford?  Scott Hamilton?

Not Duke (though he undoubtedly had it in his repertoire).  Not Ricky or Scott. 

11 hours ago, Milestones said:

8.     More cool tenor, traditional sounding.  Nice drive and rhythm from piano/bass/drums; I especially like the bass.  Reminds me a bit of George Adams, though George nearly always played in a more over-heated style.  Good stuff, whoever it is.

I assure you, this tenor player would LOVE the comparison to George.  Definitely stays within himself, though (something George could NOT do). 

11 hours ago, Milestones said:

9.     This sounds like Coltrane modal style, though I don’t think there’s any tenor or any sax here.  Trumpet is kind of thick and blurry; the pianist is over-busy in some spots.  Not bad.  You just have to let this flow over you.

Great song, not the best version I've heard, but it is the best version I have recorded. 

11 hours ago, Milestones said:

10. Cool enough mix of elements—burnished trumpet and thumping deep baritone, drums usually playing rather freely.  No guesses.

 

11. I’ll just say that I have no idea.

 

12. Sort of like tropical jazz, a little too close to smooth for my taste.

 

   

A wicked ear-worm, though.

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The tenor player on "Lush Life" is a blend of some disparate ingredients, some almost Sheppiian near-overblowing, with some that Sincerity Vibrato that is so common in, for my tastes, too may places. But they've got a great subtone (once again, almost Sheppian). I don't really hear a personal voice, but it is an interesting combination of other voices to make a statement.

And the pianist almost had me thinking for Ran Blake at the beginning, but then that went away.

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4 minutes ago, JSngry said:

The tenor player on "Lush Life" is a blend of some disparate ingredients, some almost Sheppiian near-overblowing, with some that Sincerity Vibrato that is so common in, for my tastes, too may places. But they've got a great subtone (once again, almost Sheppian). I don't really hear a personal voice, but it is an interesting combination of other voices to make a statement.

And the pianist almost had me thinking for Ran Blake at the beginning, but then that went away.

Shepp was the guess I was hoping to get.  That's a BIG clue. 

 

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"My Old Flame" is somebody who's paid a lot of attention to Charles Lloyd, tone-wise.

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AH! I knew that was Kahil El'Zabar drumming on "Little Sunflower" and thought it might well be Alex Harding on bari, but I don't have this record and all the descriptions of it show a cellist instead of a bassist, so I'm thinking ok, what else could it be. Came up totally empty on that one, so went back, found this, and ok, I guess it IS cello: https://ethnicheritageensemble.bandcamp.com/album/be-known-ancient-future-music

I like this one a lot. I dig that guy's drumming, he always tunes his kit just so, his pocket is right, and he never fails to leave space in his grooves, he never gets too excited and plays through everything.

39 minutes ago, tkeith said:

Shepp was the guess I was hoping to get.  That's a BIG clue. 

 

How so?

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35 minutes ago, JSngry said:

"My Old Flame" is somebody who's paid a lot of attention to Charles Lloyd, tone-wise.

Mmmm... you may have your chronology flipped.

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Just now, tkeith said:

Mmmm... you may have your chronology flipped.

Oh really!!!!

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1 minute ago, JSngry said:

AH! I knew that was Kahil El'Zabar drumming on "Little Sunflower" and thought it might well be Alex Harding on bari, but I don't have this record and all the descriptions of it show a cellist instead of a bassist, so I'm thinking ok, what else could it be. Came up totally empty on that one, so went back, found this, and ok, I guess it IS cello: https://ethnicheritageensemble.bandcamp.com/album/be-known-ancient-future-music

I like this one a lot. I dig that guy's drumming, he always tunes his kit just so, his pocket is right, and he never fails to leave space in his grooves, he never gets too excited and plays through everything.

Got to see him twice last spring.  Man... life changing. 

1 minute ago, JSngry said:

How so?

I can't say much without giving it away. 

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27 minutes ago, JSngry said:

Oh really!!!!

I don't know, definitely a Trane-influenced concept, but I still hear Lloyd in the tone, as well as some faint Billy Harper type architecture...it's a really good solo, very organic, and I want to hear more of the player, probably. But right now, I can't put a name to him/her.

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54 minutes ago, JSngry said:

I don't know, definitely a Trane-influenced concept, but I still hear Lloyd in the tone, as well as some faint Billy Harper type architecture...it's a really good solo, very organic, and I want to hear more of the player, probably. But right now, I can't put a name to him/her.

You definitely KNOW the player.  In fact, I'd guess this is a player you really appreciate.

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