felser

BFT 213 link and comments

81 posts in this topic

13 minutes ago, mjazzg said:

Yes, I got the LP from the US too. Seems a while ago now possibly before CvsD did the CD

 

I've had the CD (track 9) for a while. Offhand over six months, perhaps significantly longer. Discogs shows release date 2019.

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14 minutes ago, T.D. said:

I've had the CD (track 9) for a while. Offhand over six months, perhaps significantly longer. Discogs shows release date 2019.

Thanks.  It came to my attention late then.  I grabbed it as soon as I read about it, which was not until this past October.

37 minutes ago, JSngry said:

They never really totally fit into the "Soul LH&R" thing imo. It didn't seem organic most of the time. David Rubinson tried, they tried, EVERYBODY tried. But as with love, you cant hide trying. I mean, Yes We Can" was from that same period and THAT was organic to them, no trying there. some of the other things. But I find their "jazz" work (including this one) to be...on a level of that Maria Muldair album with Benny Carter - well intentioned, and not without SOME merit, but...it's a billboard for a town, not the town itself.

Part of my feelings is based on that I despise much of their Richard Perry work, and don't actively desire to hear any of it except "I'm So Excited" ever again in my lifetime.  I heard their early work before I ever heard LHR, so they were a gateway for me.  If their "Cloudburst" is the only version you know, it sounds really good.  And I think their "Salt Peanuts" is a marvel, even though they are clearly "trying" really hard.  But something like "Yes We Can", "Wang Dang Doodle", and especially "Love in Them There Hills" is where the biggest payoff is for me.

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23 minutes ago, felser said:

If their "Cloudburst" is the only version you know, it sounds really good. 

The first I heard them do that was on a Don Kirshner Rock concert (iirc) and it was a mess by the time it was over. So hearing it on their album was, like, oh, ok, well this isn't THAT big a mess. But then when I finally DID hear the originals. perspective was finally and permanently

I like Richard Perry too, as a rule. What he did, he did extremely well. But it is what it is, no illusions. Same thing with Phil Ramone, those guys made those types of records as well as they could be made.

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Summary of what still needs to be ID'd:

4 - track needs to be ID'd, artists and album already ID'd as Lloyd/Higgins "Which Way is East?"

11 - Nothing ID'd yet.

12 - Nothing ID'd yet (except we know that it's NOT Pharoah Sanders)

13 - album and track need to be ID'd (Artist ID'd as Rufus Harley)

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I have the Harley on a reissue that I should probably get reacquainted with. It was not of an Atlantic album!

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is Pharaoh not Pharaoh on Black Jazz?

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He didn't record anything for that label.

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#11 is by a drummer/composer who got a bit of recognition late in life for his records made before this one. A very accomplished, if waaaaay undersung, talent.

Knowing now who it is,y uncertainty about what the deal was is removed, and thumbs are now up! 

I do like his earlier records better, but this one is certainly ok!

#12 comes by it's Pharaoh-ishness naturally/honestly enough....I suppose...but the leader devolved rather quickly and drastically, imo.

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I find Cannonball to be comforting in our difficult present time.

 

 

 

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2 hours ago, Milestones said:

I find Cannonball to be comforting in our difficult present time.

 

 

 

Yes.

7 minutes ago, Milestones said:

Track #4 is "Windy Mountain"?

 

It is!

2 hours ago, JSngry said:

#11 is by a drummer/composer who got a bit of recognition late in life for his records made before this one. A very accomplished, if waaaaay undersung, talent.

Knowing now who it is,y uncertainty about what the deal was is removed, and thumbs are now up! 

I do like his earlier records better, but this one is certainly ok!

#12 comes by it's Pharaoh-ishness naturally/honestly enough....I suppose...but the leader devolved rather quickly and drastically, imo.

Understood.  Not aware of the drummer's earlier records, thought this and its companion (1975 and 1976) were the first, so I'll have to research further.  Please PM more info!  I actually like the #12 leader's devolved recordings up to a point, until he switched labels, though each one was weaker than the one before.

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1. Nassau gets funky.  Unknown Bahamanian locals.
2. Probably Alice Coltrane.  Probably with Joe Henderson and Michael White.
3. Black Coffee.  Initial thought is Carmen McRae, but only in the full voice moments.  Most of the song is in a quieter and more reflective mode that doesn't fit as wll.  Someone newer like Nnenna Freelon?  Interesting how the strings are used just for one short segment.
4. Joe Lovano?
5. Organ and tenor.  Stanley Turrentine?
6. Trumpet, soprano and electric piano front line.  Wallace Roney?
7. Never Will I Marry.  Dee Dee Bridgewater?
8. This has me thinking of the Art Ensemble albums with singers, Les Stances de Sophie and With Fontella Bass.
9. Stephon Harris?
10. I'm in unfamiliar territory here, stylistically, but it's good.  New York Voices?
11. The bass is very reminiscent of Woody Shaw's Blackstone Legacy band.
12. Pharoah Sanders, sounds more like Alice Coltrane than Joe Bonner.
13. The ending is weird enough to make me think it could be a British "jazz-rock" unit like Colloseum or Soft Machine 

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45 minutes ago, randyhersom said:

1. Nassau gets funky.  Unknown Bahamanian locals.  This actually made #15 pop/#7 R&B on the US charts in 1971, though they were one-hit wonders.
2. Probably Alice Coltrane.  Probably with Joe Henderson and Michael White.  All three on there, but it's Henderson's album,  previously ID'd.
3. Black Coffee.  Initial thought is Carmen McRae, but only in the full voice moments.  Most of the song is in a quieter and more reflective mode that doesn't fit as wll.  Someone newer like Nnenna Freelon?  Interesting how the strings are used just for one short segment.  ID'd.  Think farther afield.
4. Joe Lovano?  No, someone better.
5. Organ and tenor.  Stanley Turrentine?  No, someone not as good, and later.
6. Trumpet, soprano and electric piano front line.  Wallace Roney?  No, ID'd, and I imagine a surprise.  Much earlier.
7. Never Will I Marry.  Dee Dee Bridgewater?  Earlier.  Recognize the saxophonist?
8. This has me thinking of the Art Ensemble albums with singers, Les Stances de Sophie and With Fontella Bass.  Later.
9. Stephon Harris?  Much earlier.
10. I'm in unfamiliar territory here, stylistically, but it's good.  New York Voices?  No, ID'd and a strange one.
11. The bass is very reminiscent of Woody Shaw's Blackstone Legacy band.  Still not ID'd.  Sangrey knows, but he's not telling.
12. Pharoah Sanders, sounds more like Alice Coltrane than Joe Bonner.  Not Pharoah, Coltrane, or Bonner, but you're very warm.
13. The ending is weird enough to make me think it could be a British "jazz-rock" unit like Colloseum or Soft Machine   US based, but indeed weird.

Thanks for your participation!

 

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So reading the new comments, is track 11 a Bob Moses band?

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10 hours ago, felser said:

Understood.  Not aware of the drummer's earlier records, thought this and its companion (1975 and 1976) were the first, so I'll have to research further.  Please PM more info! .

Ok, disregard the "earlier" business, this one was the second. I hear the first one and the third one together and this one years later, so...my bad for scrambling reality and experience.

Those first three, all ear openers, though. Reissues serving their best purpose of shining light on neglected gems.

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5 hours ago, mjazzg said:

So reading the new comments, is track 11 a Bob Moses band?

No. But good guess.

19 minutes ago, JSngry said:

Ok, disregard the "earlier" business, this one was the second. I hear the first one and the third one together and this one years later, so...my bad for scrambling reality and experience.

Those first three, all ear openers, though. Reissues serving their best purpose of shining light on neglected gems.

I need the third.  Have been looking for it.  Thankful to have the first two

 

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55 minutes ago, felser said:

No. But good guess.

I think I'm going to admit defeat on tracks 11,12 & 13 and wait for the reveal, or for Jsngry to spill the beans, with great interest. But I'm going to listen to that run one more time...

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20 minutes ago, mjazzg said:

I think I'm going to admit defeat on tracks 11,12 & 13 and wait for the reveal, or for Jsngry to spill the beans, with great interest. But I'm going to listen to that run one more time...

11 and 13 are tough, but I'm actually surprised that the leader/album on 12 has not been identified.  Will be one of those things where it is obvious once known.  It is not obscure by any means.

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5 minutes ago, felser said:

It is not obscure by any means.

I'm not too sure that it helps to know that, John :lol:

By a creaky process of elimination I think the Harley might be from 'Re-creation Of The Gods' only because I have a number of the others and not that one and also the line-up on Discogs fits (is such research allowed?)

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3 minutes ago, mjazzg said:

 (is such research allowed?)

not only is it allowed, it is encouraged!

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3 minutes ago, mjazzg said:

I'm not too sure that it helps to know that, John :lol:

By a creaky process of elimination I think the Harley might be from 'Re-creation Of The Gods' only because I have a number of the others and not that one and also the line-up on Discogs fits (is such research allowed?)

Mark, you are correct on the Harley (#13), and research is not only allowed, but encouraged!  Now go ahead and name the track for full credit!

Just now, JSngry said:

not only is it allowed, it is encouraged!

+1.

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12 minutes ago, felser said:

11 and 13 are tough, but I'm actually surprised that the leader/album on 12 has not been identified.  Will be one of those things where it is obvious once known.  It is not obscure by any means.

Ok, Lonnie Liston Smith, first Flying Dutchman album.

Bob Theile has been accused of trying to make Gato Barbieri into a "white" ie - popular Pharoah Sanders, and I'm not sure I can get with that. But what he was doing with Lonnie Liston Smith here certainly suggests that he was looking for a spin-off of same.

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4 minutes ago, JSngry said:

Ok, Lonnie Liston Smith, first Flying Dutchman album.

Bob Theile has been accused of trying to make Gato Barbieri into a "white" ie - popular Pharoah Sanders, and I'm not sure I can get with that. But what he was doing with Lonnie Liston Smith here certainly suggests that he was looking for a spin-off of same.

Agreed on both counts.  Those are by far my favorite Gato Barbieri albums (especially 'El Pompero'), and to me, he sounds like Gato Barbieri on them, not like Pharoah Sanders.   The first Lonnie Liston Smith album very much sounds like a Pharoah Sanders album, with an appropriate (though otherwise unknown, at least to me) sax player, and a couple of well-known tracks that Smith had already recorded with Sanders.   That being said, it's a better Pharoah Sanders album than what Pharoah was putting out on Impulse at that time, where he was repeating himself and thrashing about some.   Smith then found a way to smooth out and commercialize that sound more and more on each proceeding album until it was Muzak by the end.  This album, though, still has a lot of guts to it, if not a lot of originality.

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37 minutes ago, JSngry said:

Ok, Lonnie Liston Smith, first Flying Dutchman album.

Now I'm confused, a state I find myself increasingly visiting and not just in this BFT. I thought Liston Smith's first Flying Dutchman was 'Astral Traveling' without Gato. But we're saying and now hearing Gato on the BFT track, no?  And Gato's first FD album 'Third World' doesn't have LLS on it

Forgive me, it's been a tough week...

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