JSngry

BFT 204 - C'mon Vince, Play Your Vibes!

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Track 2: Diz

Track 6:"Girl Talk"

Track 7: Bela Bartok?

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At 33 minutes nobody has an excuse for not at least listening thru.

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4 hours ago, BillF said:

Track 2: Diz

Track 6:"Girl Talk"

Track 7: Bela Bartok?

Quite!

2 hours ago, Dan Gould said:

At 33 minutes nobody has an excuse for not at least listening thru.

That was not the plan at the outset, but I found it really easy to drop stuff from the original compilation sessions. So yeah!

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I’m sure the title is a shout out to vibes master Vince Montana.  MFSB, leader of the Salsoul Orchestra, and jazz credits before that.   And I could see him having involvement in every track on this, though not sold that is the case.   The BFT was short and sweet.  Wish it had gone on longer!

1 – No idea, and it’s certainly not jazz.  But I do like it and stuck with it the whole way through.

2 – Has to be Dizzy Gillespie & Co., doesn’t it?  Really enjoyable.

3 – Well, this is going to be one wide-ranging BFT!  But would we expect anything else?  😊.  Track is certainly well-done for what it is, but this style doesn’t do that much for me (though I appreciate the sentiment).

4 – Love it.   I listen to a lot of this sort of thing, have for 45 years.  Great voice.  Wouldn’t mind purchasing if it’s available on CD (though it’s conceivable I have it already and am just not placing it).

5 – Loleatta Holloway & the Salsoul Orchestra, “Runaway”.  Classic.

6 – Neal Hefti’s “Girl Talk”.  Nice, moody version.  Not gonna change the world, but can bring a smile to my face, and sometimes that’s good enough.

7 – Dramatic little interlude.  Nice.

8 – Fascinating.  The music piece is awesome, whatever it is.   Not sure what to make of the narration, don’t know that it’s gonna work for me on repeated listenings, but it might.

Thanks for getting my Monday morning off to a great start, and very much look forward to the reveals on several of these, especially #4.

 

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Vince Montana was not involved in but one of these selections, but the exhortation directed at him during that one cut captures a major part the spirit of what I hope this BFT carries with it!

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2 hours ago, felser said:

4 – Love it.   I listen to a lot of this sort of thing, have for 45 years.  Great voice.  Wouldn’t mind purchasing if it’s available on CD (though it’s conceivable I have it already and am just not placing it).

You may indeed have it, and/or part of it, The singer might be a surprise to some. It was actually a shock to me!

8 – Fascinating.  The music piece is awesome, whatever it is.   Not sure what to make of the narration, don’t know that it’s gonna work for me on repeated listenings, but it might.

The narration grows on me with every listen, and it was also the inspiration for the music. So it might help to hear this as spoken word with musical accompaniment rather than the other way around.

But yes, very interesting music on its own terms!

 

Thanks for getting my Monday morning off to a great start, and very much look forward to the reveals on several of these, especially #4.

Hey, anytime anybody's Monday can get a great start...Play it loud, play it VERY loud!!!!

 

 

 

 

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1 - This first track sounds sped up. It's weird, especially when the grunts start. Then it sounds like a vocal warm up tune. Was waiting for the Butta Gutta's to start. 

2 - I've got a live Diz and Bird CD that is from a show in Europe and this sounds like something from that, only the sonics here are better than that CD. Those kick drum stomps are lovely. And this is a tenor right? So not Bird. 

3 - This reminds me of those SAR gospel records that Sam Cooke produced for the Soul Stirrers. This isn't one of them (I don't think), but the style is right there. Some serious soul shoutin' going on. 

4 - Speaking of SAR Records, one of those singers that Cooke brought under tutelage was Lou Rawls, who sang this song Down Here on the Ground. So someone remixed that tune...and found it. Sounds like a beat RZA would've used too. Nice guitar break here so is that in homage to Green or did they loop his solo? Wes also did this but I think this is Green's playing...This is brilliant. 

5 - This has been ID'd already but damn, it's a great tune. Reminds me of some Philly soul tracks too. Lovely

6 - Song has been ID'd but I don't know who's playing. Enjoyable for sure. 

7 - ID'd as well, at least the composer. 

8 - Quilt talk from Southern Belles with a really nice track overlaid. The tension it builds is really incredible. 

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Track 2: Is the tenor soloist Big Nick Nicholas?

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3 hours ago, Dub Modal said:

1 - This first track sounds sped up. It's weird, especially when the grunts start. Then it sounds like a vocal warm up tune. Was waiting for the Butta Gutta's to start. 

Not sure what "Butta Gutta" is, but there is some (a little, just a little) validity about the perception of it being a "vocal warm up tune". More about that on the reveal (at the latest). But this is not sped up, it's a real group, done live, no overdubbing.

2 - I've got a live Diz and Bird CD that is from a show in Europe and this sounds like something from that, only the sonics here are better than that CD. Those kick drum stomps are lovely. And this is a tenor right? So not Bird. 

Europe, yes, Dizzy, yes, tenor, yes, Bird, no.

So yes!

Oh yeah, kick drum stomps, indeed lovely, so EXTRA yes!

3 - This reminds me of those SAR gospel records that Sam Cooke produced for the Soul Stirrers. This isn't one of them (I don't think), but the style is right there. Some serious soul shoutin' going on. 

It's a serious group and a serious singer. VERY serious.

4 - Speaking of SAR Records, one of those singers that Cooke brought under tutelage was Lou Rawls, who sang this song Down Here on the Ground. So someone remixed that tune...and found it. Sounds like a beat RZA would've used too. Nice guitar break here so is that in homage to Green or did they loop his solo? Wes also did this but I think this is Green's playing...This is brilliant. 

Not RZA, but you're in perhaps the same general area (to the best of my knowledge, which is not even close to being comprehensive).

You've found the right singer, but it is not the singer's record, not at all. She's only mentioned on the inside sleeve credits.

And, yes, it is Grant, although most likely chopped.

8 - Quilt talk from Southern Belles with a really nice track overlaid. The tension it builds is really incredible. 

Southern, yes, Belles, I don't know...""I got all these quilts and I ain't got pattern one"...not very Belle-esque! :g But probably from your neck of the woods? As might be the composer?

 

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3 hours ago, Dub Modal said:

 

4 - Speaking of SAR Records, one of those singers that Cooke brought under tutelage was Lou Rawls, who sang this song Down Here on the Ground. So someone remixed that tune...and found it. Sounds like a beat RZA would've used too. Nice guitar break here so is that in homage to Green or did they loop his solo? Wes also did this but I think this is Green's playing...This is brilliant.

Agreed on #4.  Is the whole album strong or is this cut a diamond in the rough.

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1 hour ago, BillF said:

Track 2: Is the tenor soloist Big Nick Nicholas?

Well hell, Bill, you either know the record or else you took the hint from inside sprawl on the Tony Williams record...and my money's on you knowing the record. :g

Just now, felser said:

Agreed on #4.  Is the whole album strong or is this cut a diamond in the rough.

That will very much be a matter of individual taste.

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3 hours ago, JSngry said:

It's a serious group and a serious singer. VERY serious.

As in Bobby Womack serious?

 

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Dare I say, carefully, even  more serious?

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9 hours ago, JSngry said:

Well hell, Bill, you either know the record or else you took the hint from inside sprawl on the Tony Williams record...and my money's on you knowing the record. :g

 

I don't know the record, but I know BNN's sound and recall he played in the late 40s Gillespie band. Presence of Latin rhythm instrument(s) on your track suggests this isn't the late 50s Gillespie orch.

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You are correct!

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Track 1: Northern Scandinavia, or inspired by choirs from this area?

Track 2: Should be a Diz big band live track, with Chano Pozo? From 1948 then. Big Nick? Oop-Pap-A-Da. Wild.

Track 3: Love it. No idea who it is, but I love this kind of singing.

Track 4: Good, but not my thing. Nice guitarist. But the rhythm is boring.

Track 5: I liked that kind of music when it was new, but in retrospect the rhythms/grooves have not aged well. In that type of music, Vince Montana should be the vibes player.

Track 6: Girl Talk. Great way to play that tune. I'm curious who conceived that arrangement. California scene, I'd say. They should have given the bass player some room for variations.

Track 7: Nice interlude. More, please.

Track 8. No idea. Again: More, please. 

 

re # 2: There are two live recordings from the 1948 European tour with that tune, Stockholm and Paris. Don't have the time to spin the LPs.

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2 minutes ago, mikeweil said:

Track 1: Northern Scandinavia, or inspired by choirs from this area?

Neither, but what it actually is is...stay tuned!

Track 2: Should be a Diz big band live track, with Chano Pozo? From 1948 then. Big Nick? Oop-Pap-A-Da. Wild.

Wild it is indeed, and your guesses are all correct!

Track 3: Love it. No idea who it is, but I love this kind of singing.

A major singer with a major group. Iconic, although not for this record, which is a bit of an obscurity for them.

Track 5: I liked that kind of music when it was new, but in retrospect the rhythms/grooves have not aged well. In that type of music, Vince Montana should be the vibes player.

C'mon Vince, play your vibes!

Track 6: Girl Talk. Great way to play that tune. I'm curious who conceived that arrangement. California scene, I'd say. They should have given the bass player some room for variations.

You are on the verge of answering your own questions, all of them!

Track 7: Nice interlude. More, please.

Track 8. No idea. Again: More, please. 

There is indeed plenty more of both available in the world today, and in the second case, hopefully for years to come.

 

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The  presence of Big Nick Nicolas leads me to wonder if I helped that track get selected, as I have recently shared my discovery that the Leonard Gaskin Papers @ the Smithsonian is filled with cassettes of Big Nick shows - considerably more cassettes than Percy France. Anyone who wanted to do for Big Nick what I am trying to do for Percy would find an incredible wealth of material. This picture is from 1986 at a club in NJ.

Photo credit: Leonard Gaskin Papers, Archives Center, National Museum of American History, Smithsonian Institution

Sorry for the interruption, back to the BFT currently in progress.

Screenshot 2021-03-02 101850 (3).jpg

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41 minutes ago, Dan Gould said:

The  presence of Big Nick Nicolas leads me to wonder if I helped that track get selected, as I have recently shared my discovery that the Leonard Gaskin Papers @ the Smithsonian is filled with cassettes of Big Nick shows - considerably more cassettes than Percy France. Anyone who wanted to do for Big Nick what I am trying to do for Percy would find an incredible wealth of material. This picture is from 1986 at a club in NJ.

Photo credit: Leonard Gaskin Papers, Archives Center, National Museum of American History, Smithsonian Institution

Sorry for the interruption, back to the BFT currently in progress.

Screenshot 2021-03-02 101850 (3).jpg

I actually put this BFT together during the first weekend(?) of November of last year (long story....), so this was already on it. But you recent uncovering of more Big Nick certainly adds a new relevancy (for me) to its presence here!

I got that record in...1972? 1973? Came with a Down Beat subscription IIRC. an amazing record, and this is the opening cut. I had never heard Big Nick before (except as the title/dedicatee of a Trane tune) and it would be at least a decade (more?) before I heard him again. That solo (the one here) fucked me up, like immediately, and I've not yet fully recovered. NOBODY played quite like that, tone, phrasing, harmonic rhythm, a lot of existing things put together in a totally original way. That whole record, this cut in particular, especially this Big Nick solo (and btw, there's a splice or something in there that throws off the 12 bar structure, but big deal, he was already discombobulating all that long before that splice) is one of those things that the more you listen to it, the more you hear, the more mysteries get unfolded, the more mysteries take their place, just one of those records. For me, anyway.

As for the BFT, anybody noticing the 3rd band riff behind Big Nick? That's a thing that became a Sonny Clark trademark, so obviously it was in his air, but...it sounds so familiar, did it really start with this band? I doubt it, but whose air was it in for THEM to breathe? Dan Morenstern's liner notes say something like it's reminiscent of the Savoy Sultans, but is that a reference or just an illusion?

Inquiring minds want to know!

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1. I like this and want to hear more.  Acappella.  I read with interest JSngry's comments on Singers Unlimited and the Hi-Lo's  and sampled a bit of both groups, but I don't think this is either of them.  Likewise not Pentatonix or pure classical.  The voices are "more European" than those of the next 4 tracks but the end effect is not constrained as most classical is.  

2.  JATP was the first impression, abd the tenor is too brawny and no boppish enough to suspect Dexter.  When the vocals come in Dizzy Gillespie immediately comes to mind, and on relistening, James Moody certainly seems to be the tenor.

3. Gospel, You Don't Know Me like the Lord Do.  Doesn't sound like Mavis Staples, although in the same register, and I'll guess Mahalia Jackson.

4. Down Here On The Ground.  I haven't identified a Stax one-hit wonder that could have done this, but that's the feeling I get.

5.  Title may well be Run Away, but definitely not the Del Shannon one covered by Bonnie Raitt.  Arrangement and certain vocal moments recall Valerie Simpson, but no Nick Ashford in sight (sound?) and Vince isn't quite enough clue to get me to a better guess

6.  Concise piano soloist over latter-day big band with congas.  Ahmad Jamal?

7.  Very short piano solo.  Reminiscent of Jarrett's churchy moments, but not him.  Frank Kimbrough?

8. Interesting collage with folk art lessons in creativity incorporated, then sampled and altered.  I'm way out of my element here, but this recalled some DJ Shadow I have heard, although I'm quite sure I never heard this before.

 

 

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19 minutes ago, randyhersom said:

1. I like this and want to hear more.  Acappella.  I read with interest JSngry's comments on Singers Unlimited and the Hi-Lo's  and sampled a bit of both groups, but I don't think this is either of them.  Likewise not Pentatonix or pure classical.  The voices are "more European" than those of the next 4 tracks but the end effect is not constrained as most classical is.  

Your observations are both keen and on-point in all regards.

2.  JATP was the first impression, abd the tenor is too brawny and no boppish enough to suspect Dexter.  When the vocals come in Dizzy Gillespie immediately comes to mind, and on relistening, James Moody certainly seems to be the tenor.

Tenor (and band, and continent and year, for that matter) has been identified. But the cut itself has a lot going on past that...like the drummings (sic) and the piano comping (sic!).

3. Gospel, You Don't Know Me like the Lord Do.  Doesn't sound like Mavis Staples, although in the same register, and I'll guess Mahalia Jackson.

Same lineage, definitely, and same impact inside its musical world. Just not anywhere near the "crossover" appeal, at least not as a group...

4. Down Here On The Ground.  I haven't identified a Stax one-hit wonder that could have done this, but that's the feeling I get.

That's a good feeling, no doubt, but the reality is a 180 from that :) 

5.  Title may well be Run Away, but definitely not the Del Shannon one covered by Bonnie Raitt.  Arrangement and certain vocal moments recall Valerie Simpson, but no Nick Ashford in sight (sound?) and Vince isn't quite enough clue to get me to a better guess

Track, singer, and Vince previously identified. And although not her, very gratified to see a Valerie Simpson reference anywhere, anytime!

6.  Concise piano soloist over latter-day big band with congas.  Ahmad Jamal?

I was wondering if anybody was going to go with Jamal on this, because I hear it too, definitely. Which makes the reality even more weird!

7.  Very short piano solo.  Reminiscent of Jarrett's churchy moments, but not him.  Frank Kimbrough?

Before their time.

8. Interesting collage with folk art lessons in creativity incorporated, then sampled and altered.  I'm way out of my element here, but this recalled some DJ Shadow I have heard, although I'm quite sure I never heard this before.

"folk art lessons in creativity", EXACTLY! And not just lessons about creativity in quilting, but about creativity in life, period. I LOL-ed my FAO first time hearing this, because I was, like, WHOA, this is IT! Quilting is just the specific, the GENERAL, this is about anybody doing anything creative, it's universal! The fact that it's coming from what sounds like to be these little old grandmas from back in the hills just makes it MORE relevant, imo. Unity exists if you want it, right?

But it's not a DJ, or anybody from that milieu, who did the music or prepped the voices. THAT'S another story altogether...

 

 

 

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So does the comment "Quite" confirm Bartok for #7?

 

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It does, yes. As the composer.

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Not Mikrokosmos...maybe not a "famous" piece. I mostly put it in there as a change of pace, nothing more.

That, and to see if anybody would nibble on Piano Improvisations-era Chick Corea...Randy almost did!

It's just a lovely, short piece. Grabbed me by the...neck the first time I heard it.

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