Guy Berger Posted May 20, 2007 Report Share Posted May 20, 2007 I thought I'd make things interesting by picking this album, Santana's first (and arguably best) foray into jazz rock. I haven't listened to it for a while so I will have to dig out the album. Personnel ======= JOSE CHEPITO AREAS -- timbales, congas, bongos JAMES MINGO LEWIS -- congas, percussion, vocal, bongos, acoustic piano DOUGLAS RAUCH -- bass, guitar GREGG ROLIE -- organ, piano TOM RUTLEY -- acoustic bass CARLOS SANTANA -- lead guitar, percussion, vocal NEAL SCHON -- guitar MIKE SHRIEVE -- drums Hadley Caliman -- saxophone introduction (1) Tom Coster -- electric piano (9) Wendy Haas -- piano Tom Harrel -- orchestral arrangement (10) Armando Peraza -- percussion, bongos Rico Reyes -- vocal Douglas Rodriguez -- guitar (2) Lenny White -- castanets (6) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Big Al Posted May 21, 2007 Report Share Posted May 21, 2007 Great choice! Amazing album! I need to listen to this again as well. I really dig the cover of "Stone Flower." Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
felser Posted May 21, 2007 Report Share Posted May 21, 2007 Great choice! Amazing album! I need to listen to this again as well. I really dig the cover of "Stone Flower." An utterly incredible album. I've always counted it as a rock album, thought it does straddle the line, but it's always been a Desert Island Disc for me regardless of classification. There is an utter magic to this album that struck me when I first heard it 35 years ago, and still strikes me every time I listen. I love it all, but the highlight for me is the ending progression of 'Stone Flower/La Fuente Del Ritmo/Every Step of the Way'. The buildup to and start of the guitar solo in 'Every Step of the Way' is the greatest instance of tension and release I have ever heard in music of any kind. This is Santana's greatest album by a country mile, even as excellent and visionary as some of the others (the first three,'Love Devotion Surrender', 'Welcome', 'Lotus', ' 'Borbeletta', "Moonflower') through the mid-70's are. The 2003 Legacy remaster of this is spectacular, a huge sonic upgrade on previous versions. Great pick. Don't miss this one. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Noj Posted May 21, 2007 Report Share Posted May 21, 2007 Great choice! Amazing album! I need to listen to this again as well. I really dig the cover of "Stone Flower." An utterly incredible album. I've always counted it as a rock album, thought it does straddle the line, but it's always been a Desert Island Disc for me regardless of classification. There is an utter magic to this album that struck me when I first heard it 35 years ago, and still strikes me every time I listen. I love it all, but the highlight for me is the ending progression of 'Stone Flower/La Fuente Del Ritmo/Every Step of the Way'. The buildup to and start of the guitar solo in 'Every Step of the Way' is the greatest instance of tension and release I have ever heard in music of any kind. This is Santana's greatest album by a country mile, even as excellent and visionary as some of the others (the first three,'Love Devotion Surrender', 'Welcome', 'Lotus', ' 'Borbeletta', "Moonflower') through the mid-70's are. The 2003 Legacy remaster of this is spectacular, a huge sonic upgrade on previous versions. Great pick. Don't miss this one. What felser said! I love this album. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Big Al Posted May 21, 2007 Report Share Posted May 21, 2007 (edited) Another thing: Mike Shrieve's contribution to this album (as well as other Santana albums) cannot be overstated enough. The guy was/is an incredible drummer, versatile in ways that still sound fresh and new after all these years. I think if he'd been born 20 years sooner, we might be talking about him in the same light as Blakey, Elvin, Max, A.T., and all the other drumming greats. A lot of times, I'll listen to a Santana album--especially CARAVANSERAI--just to listen to Shrieve's work. And Felser's right on the money about the remaster: in-frickin-credible!!! Edited May 21, 2007 by Big Al Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guy Berger Posted May 21, 2007 Author Report Share Posted May 21, 2007 (edited) Another thing: Mike Shrieve's contribution to this album (as well as other Santana albums) cannot be overstated enough. The guy was/is an incredible drummer, versatile in ways that still sound fresh and new after all these years. I think if he'd been born 20 years sooner, we might be talking about him in the same light as Blakey, Elvin, Max, A.T., and all the other drumming greats. Assuming AT is Art Taylor, I definitely wouldn't put him in the same class as the other 3. Agreed about Shrieve being a fantastic drummer -- definitely doesn't get his due when discussions of great pop music drummers come up. I've speculated (based on liner notes to one of the 1st 3 Santana albums) that Shrieve introduced Carlos Santana to the music of John Coltrane and Miles Davis, which was an obvious influence on Caravanserai. Guy Edited May 21, 2007 by Guy Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
six string Posted May 21, 2007 Report Share Posted May 21, 2007 I agree with the other person who said it was their best. I love Abraxas and III, don't get me wrong, but I listen to this album by Santana more than any of their others. A masterpiece indeed. I too am a fan of Shrieve. I followed him through Automatic Man and that other jazz/rock kind of band, the name escapes me at the moment, and that trio album he did called Stilleto. That one might sound a little boring to me these days, but there was a time when I thought it sounded pretty cool. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Swinger Posted May 21, 2007 Report Share Posted May 21, 2007 Perfect choice! Wonderful album! This is truly among my personal Desert Island albums for sure! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mikeweil Posted May 21, 2007 Report Share Posted May 21, 2007 This has always been and will always be the greatest Santana album, to these ears. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Noj Posted May 21, 2007 Report Share Posted May 21, 2007 Side note: Shrieve's drum solo on "Soul Sacrifice" from the Woodstock show is insane! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JSngry Posted May 21, 2007 Report Share Posted May 21, 2007 Nostalgia appeal for this one is high, because hearing it in 1972, when I was 16 & had been discovering & devouring jazz of all sorts, jazz-rock of all sorts, and pretty much anything "jazz-related" with an appetite that could conservatively be described as ravenous, was a real mindfuck. The first three Santana albums had been favorites from the git-go, each one moreso than the one before, but the side w/Buddy Miles didn't do it for me, and I was wondering if all the noise I was hearing about Santana going a new "jazzy" route was just that - noise. So when Caravanserai hit, I was curious. Well, from Hadley Calliman's opening notes, I knew that the noise was no hype - this shit was happening, and in a big way. Now, a lot of my faves from that day are still faves, but not for the same reason(s). There's defintiely a nostalgic appeal to a lot of that stuff that comes from having been there, and I lack the "objectivity" to sternly judge the music purely on its merits (well, I can, but what price "objectivity"? Once you know you have it, what do you do with it other than have it handy for occasions where it's needed?) And yeah, there's that factor that plays into my enthusiasm for this album. No denying it. But dammit, it is good. Damn good in fact. It's an album that captures a moment of "purity of vision" unlike few others , and this at a time when proclaimed "visions" were abounding far more than the things themself. If it was too good (dare I say too pure?) to last, and if Santana himself might have lacked the "overall musicianship" to drive the thing to the next level, or even sustain it at this one (and that's in no way a dis - the guy's a marvellous player & has always led excellent-to-great bands, but to go all the way off into the type of territory he opened the door to here was just not something he was equipped to do, nor should it necessarily have been - this, after all, is an album of "vision" and of realizing that specific vision. Building on it would be a separate/different task altogether), oh well. It's a glorious triumph anyway. When it comes to rendering a personal "final judgement" on things like this, nostalgia sometimes trumps objectivity, and sometimes vice-versa. Rare (and cause for joy) is the occasion when they compliment each other. Caravanserai is just such a thing. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JSngry Posted May 21, 2007 Report Share Posted May 21, 2007 Mike Shrieve... was/is an incredible drummer, versatile in ways that still sound fresh and new after all these years. I think if he'd been born 20 years sooner, we might be talking about him in the same light as Blakey, Elvin, Max, A.T., and all the other drumming greats. If he were born 20 years earlier, he'd have been born in 1929. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Big Al Posted May 21, 2007 Report Share Posted May 21, 2007 Mike Shrieve... was/is an incredible drummer, versatile in ways that still sound fresh and new after all these years. I think if he'd been born 20 years sooner, we might be talking about him in the same light as Blakey, Elvin, Max, A.T., and all the other drumming greats. If he were born 20 years earlier, he'd have been born in 1929. I know; the point being that he might've hooked up with some of the bebop bands of the late 40's/early 50's and made his name there. Or had he been born in '39, he might be in the same vein as Tony Williams or Billy Higgins. That's how high esteem I hold him. And yeah, that solo he did at Woodstock never gets old to these ears (and eyes)! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Big Al Posted May 21, 2007 Report Share Posted May 21, 2007 and if Santana himself might have lacked the "overall musicianship" to drive the thing to the next level, or even sustain it at this one (and that's in no way a dis - the guy's a marvellous player & has always led excellent-to-great bands, but to go all the way off into the type of territory he opened the door to here was just not something he was equipped to do, nor should it necessarily have been - this, after all, is an album of "vision" and of realizing that specific vision. Building on it would be a separate/different task altogether), oh well. It's a glorious triumph anyway. Y'ever get the feeling that's what he was going for when he made Love, Devotion, and Surrender with McLaughlin? I don't know about y'all, but LDS is a huge letdown for me; just a lot of aimless meandering solos. Put into the above context, I guess LDS could be seen as a noble failure, IMHO, one from which he learned and rebounded with the lovely Welcome. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JSngry Posted May 21, 2007 Report Share Posted May 21, 2007 and if Santana himself might have lacked the "overall musicianship" to drive the thing to the next level, or even sustain it at this one (and that's in no way a dis - the guy's a marvellous player & has always led excellent-to-great bands, but to go all the way off into the type of territory he opened the door to here was just not something he was equipped to do, nor should it necessarily have been - this, after all, is an album of "vision" and of realizing that specific vision. Building on it would be a separate/different task altogether), oh well. It's a glorious triumph anyway. Y'ever get the feeling that's what he was going for when he made Love, Devotion, and Surrender with McLaughlin? I don't know about y'all, but LDS is a huge letdown for me... Don't know if that's what he was going for, or if it was a Sri Chinmoy hoe-down in action, but, yeah, that side didn't do too much for me either, and still doesn't. Probably the best "expansion" of the concept was with what was recorded/released on Lotus. Not really an "expansion" of the concept as much as a full(er) flowering/bringing it to the older repertoire as well, which worked pretty nicely, I think. But that didn't see US release until waaaay after the fact so unless you heard it as a J-Import fairly early on (I didn't hear it until '79 or so, by which time the band had already swung back towards a more overtly commercial sound), it's nothing more than a quite refreshing document rather than part of the "official" evolution. Or not. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Noj Posted May 21, 2007 Report Share Posted May 21, 2007 And yeah, that solo he did at Woodstock never gets old to these ears (and eyes)! Watch it on youtube! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sundog Posted May 21, 2007 Report Share Posted May 21, 2007 This is one of those rare albums that demands to be actively listened to from start to finish. To me, it's one big piece of music that flows perfectly from moment to moment. It's almost impossible to put on a song or two for casual listening. The album still defies categorization 35 years down the road. Great choice. P.S. It's an over simplification for sure, but Michael Shrieve can lock up with a latin rhythm section like no one else. He's so sympathetic, always listening. Probably my favorite drummer period. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Big Al Posted May 22, 2007 Report Share Posted May 22, 2007 P.S. It's an over simplification for sure, but Michael Shrieve can lock up with a latin rhythm section like no one else. He's so sympathetic, always listening. Nothing simple about that, my friend. He just made it look and sound so damn easy! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CJ Shearn Posted May 22, 2007 Report Share Posted May 22, 2007 I gotta get Caravanserai. "Lotus" is probably my favorite Santana album though, it's a great record. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
felser Posted May 22, 2007 Report Share Posted May 22, 2007 I gotta get Caravanserai. "Lotus" is probably my favorite Santana album though, it's a great record. It's a great record (actually three records), but not like 'Caravanserai' is. Leon Thomas didn't work for me in that setting. I really liked Leon Thomas, really like that period of Santana, but not together. Leon Patillo, who replaced him on vocals and replaced Richard Kermode on keys (Tom Coster stayed on board also on keys), was a perfect match for Santana. Santana continually tried to rehire Patillo in subsequent years, but Patillo always declined. Patillo became a heavyweight in Contemporary Christian music. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Noj Posted May 22, 2007 Report Share Posted May 22, 2007 Patillo became a heavyweight in Contemporary Christian music Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest donald petersen Posted May 22, 2007 Report Share Posted May 22, 2007 i have tried to play this album for people who think santana is lame as proof that he is not but no one is buying what i am selling. i have been listening to "for those that chant" a lot lately. i guess it isn't really called that, but you know, the luis gasca album which came out around this time with santana, etc. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guy Berger Posted May 22, 2007 Author Report Share Posted May 22, 2007 Tom Harrel -- orchestral arrangement (10) I was copying-and-pasting the credits for the album and totally forgot to comment about this. This must've been pretty early in Tom's career. Guy Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guy Berger Posted May 22, 2007 Author Report Share Posted May 22, 2007 i have tried to play this album for people who think santana is lame as proof that he is not but no one is buying what i am selling. I think his recent forays into the pop charts have made him extremely un-hip. i have been listening to "for those that chant" a lot lately. i guess it isn't really called that, but you know, the luis gasca album which came out around this time with santana, etc. I'd never heard of this album until now. The lineup seems very promising. Guy Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest donald petersen Posted May 22, 2007 Report Share Posted May 22, 2007 guy-yeah santana is not too hip right now but i thought this album would maybe impress some friends that santana had done some respectable stuff. didn't work. i don't like borboleta. i like welcome better. neither is awesome but i thought borboleta was cheesy. i guess some of the songs might be nice to dance to but i felt the long jamming tune was especially disappointing and sort of formless. especially compared to the intstrumental work on caravanserai. the gasca album, guy, is decent. i wish there was less guitar and latin percussion and santana-ish ness in general but i guess then it would be an album of gasca, joe henderson, george cables, stan clarke, lenny white and michael shrieve (he can stay) and that would be hot! but it is still good. i have the album on LP and often debate if it is worth it to upgrade to the recent CD reissue. i am not sure i like it enough... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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