AotW - Stan Getz & Charlie Byrd - Jazz Samba

[GA Russell]

I want to give you a heads up that the AotW for the last two weeks of May will be Stan Getz & Charlie Byrd - Jazz Samba.

This was the record that started the bossa nova craze. I have read that it was the last jazz record to be #1 on the Billboard Top 100 Albums chart.

I have a vague recollection of bossa nova hitting the scene, but perhaps someone else here remembers it more specifically. Jazz Samba was recorded Feb. 13, 1962. My recollection (and I could be wrong) is that Cannonball's Bossa Nova (with Sergio Mendes's group) was recorded in December of that year. So I am going to guess that Jazz Samba was #1 in the country around November of that year. Maybe one of you has a reference book of Billboard charts and can look it up.

Jazz Samba is available from Newbury Comics for $9.79.

http://www.amazon.com/gp/offer-listing/B00...9684&sr=1-1

[The Magnificent Goldberg]

Chart stuff

"Jazz samba" entered the Billboard LP chart on 15 September 1962. At the time, there were two separate charts - 150 positions for mono LPs, 50 for stereo LPs. It stayed on the chart for 70 weeks and reached #1 on the mono chart on 9 March 1963 and stayed at #1 for one week. (Alan Sherman's "My son, the celebrity" was #1 on the stereo chart that week.)

It wasn't the last jazz album to make #1 on the Billboard album charts. Subsequent jazz (OK, it depends on your definition of jazz, but I don't want to be fussy here) albums that made #1 were

Louis Armstrong - Hello Dolly - 1964

Frank Sinatra - Strangers in the night - 1966 (was Sinatra a jazz singer? Sometimes, I suppose)

Santana - Santana III - 1971 (which also made #16 on the jazz chart, so was it a jazz album?)

Diana Ross - The lady sings the blues - 1972 (hmm)

George Benson - Breezin - 1976

Natalie Cole (& Nat) - Unforgettable - 1991 (double hmm)

Not sure I should mention

Kenny G - Miracles: the holiday album - 1994 (treble hmm)

Norah Jones - Come away with me - 2002

Norah Jones - Feels like home - 2004

There are two that I think most people - even jazz fans - would agree are jazz recordings - the Armstrong and the Benson. The Benson is the only one I've heard, so I don't know what the others are like.

MG

[GA Russell]

Thanks MG!

I never heard the Hello Dolly! album, but I wouldn't call that single a jazz recording. Strictly adult popular in my book.

I've never liked George Benson, so I've never heard Breezin' either! Were most/all of the tracks vocals? I wouldn't call his vocal recordings jazz, just pop with a brief guitar line.

But the world's mileage may vary on all of that!

edit for typo

Edited May 6, 2008 by GA Russell

[The Magnificent Goldberg]

I never heard the Armstrong LP, but I find it hard to believe that he ever did anything that wasn't truly infused with jazz, even though it might have sounded like something else.

The Benson LP is mostly instrumental. It's a while since I listened to it, but I think there's only one vocal - "This masquerade". 'Course, it's very Claus Ogerman-ish. But "Jazz Samba" isn't exactly hard-core, is it?

MG

[Big Al]

I like this album okay, but I've never understood how THIS album was the one that kicked off the samba craze; didn't that honor go to Getz/Gilberto? If not, it should have. This album is actually pretty boring in a lot of spots, and I'll be frank: I've never understood the appeal of Charlie Byrd, one of the most frequently boring jazz guitarists. If his sound was any thinner, it'd be invisible.

[Shawn]

...If his sound was any thinner, it'd be invisible.

[The Magnificent Goldberg]

I like this album okay, but I've never understood how THIS album was the one that kicked off the samba craze; didn't that honor go to Getz/Gilberto? If not, it should have.

Getz/Gilberto was 1964. Bit hard to start a craze two years after.

MG

[Big Al]

I like this album okay, but I've never understood how THIS album was the one that kicked off the samba craze; didn't that honor go to Getz/Gilberto? If not, it should have.

Getz/Gilberto was 1964. Bit hard to start a craze two years after.

MG

Oops! heh heh heh....

[JSngry]

"Desafinado" was a Top 20 hit (I actually found it at 3 AM on a jukebox at an all-night diner in Garland ca. 1979, and yes I did play it, and yes, it was all scratched to hell, and yes, the mostly redneck clientèle did pause to look up and see where the weird cocktail party music was coming from, and yeah, the food sucked, but in a good way), & the album reached #1 on the Billboard album charts.

[The Magnificent Goldberg]

"Desafinado" was a Top 20 hit (I actually found it at 3 AM on a jukebox at an all-night diner in Garland ca. 1979, and yes I did play it, and yes, it was all scratched to hell, and yes, the mostly redneck clientèle did pause to look up and see where the weird cocktail party music was coming from, and yeah, the food sucked, but in a good way), & the album reached #1 on the Billboard album charts.

And you played it in preference to "Return to sender"?

Nice story, Jim.

MG

[Shrdlu]

That sure was big, and well exposed on the radio. It had a big influence on me.

But I don't think I'd want to hear that album anymore. It's a story that's been told too often.

Years later, I got Jobim's Verve album "The Composer Plays" and found out how Desafinado should really be played. Stan plays several wrong notes in the melody, and I have no doubt that Tom would not have approved, as he said that he recorded his songs to set them down correctly.

[mikeweil]

Byrd deserves credit for stumping Getz on bossa nova, or whoever had the idea to put them together in a studio. Byrd himself was stumped on bossa nova by his bassist and drummer, Keeter Betts and Buddy Deppenschmidt, during and after a tour of Brazil where they jammed with local musicians and bought a trunk of LPs.

I never really warmed that much to Getz, find him nice, but far from my favourites, and since my first encounter with bossa nova came from the much more Brazilian flavoured recordings of Herbie Mann and Cannonball Adderley, who had much better Brazilian rhythm sections, I found the Getz albums rather tame and commercial, and still do. It was influential, but a hord of jazz fans and musicians took that for bossa nova without checking out the real thing.

[GatoMedio]

I like this album okay, but I've never understood how THIS album was the one that kicked off the samba craze; didn't that honor go to Getz/Gilberto? If not, it should have.

Getz/Gilberto was 1964. Bit hard to start a craze two years after.

MG

To start off with, I don't think it makes a lot of difference to the enjoyment of the music, when exactly it started off and who deserves the credit for having it started. But I thought it important to add a Brazilian perspective to the discussion.

I live currently in Rio de Janeiro (Ipanema, to be precise), and this is the year when the 50th birthday of bossa nova is celebrated. That puts the birthday into the year 1958. In that year Antonio Carlos "Tom" Jobim and Vinicius de Moraes teamed up for the first time and produced the 13-track album "Canção do Amor Demais". The album was released under the name of Elizeth Cardoso, who sang all the songs. Later, in August of the same year, Jõao Gilberto released a single record of "Chega de Saudade" one of the songs on the aformentioned album. (The B side was "Bim Bom," a composition by João himself.) His his style of singing, which sounded more like melodic speaking, and the way he accompanied himself on the guitar are the reasons why this recording of "Chega de Saudade" is generally considered as the first bossa nova record.

But I notice that the original poster didn't talk about the start of bossa nova but about what kicked off the bossa nova craze. Obviously, before you can get crazy about something, that something has to exist. How long does it take for a new thing to turn into a craze? Your guess is as good as mine. But for me the Getz/Gilberto album is a more valid candidate because it includes some of the original players.

Gato

[Big Al]

"Deppenschmidt." Very cool name!

[The Magnificent Goldberg]

Hi Gato - and thanks for that!

MG

[kh1958]

I like this album okay, but I've never understood how THIS album was the one that kicked off the samba craze; didn't that honor go to Getz/Gilberto? If not, it should have. This album is actually pretty boring in a lot of spots, and I'll be frank: I've never understood the appeal of Charlie Byrd, one of the most frequently boring jazz guitarists. If his sound was any thinner, it'd be invisible.

While Charlie Byrd is hardly comparable to Bola Sete or Baden Powell, he actually made some pretty nice records on Riverside, I've recently discovered. You might want to listen to At the Village Vanguard, At the Gate, or Solo Flight. These are fine recordings, in my opinion.

[BillF]

IMHO, the best album of this sort is not the AofW, but Stan Getz, Big Band Bossa Nova: arranged and conducted by Gary McFarland (Verve). Stan plays his ass off on this one, which was recorded in 1962 with superb arrangements by McFarland and brilliantly executed by New York session men who include Clark Terry, Bob Brookmeyer and Jim Hall. I've had my vinyl copy for about forty years and it still sounds fresh to the ear!

[Stereojack]

I think this is a lovely record, despite its faults. The American rhythm section is stiff, which is why many subsequent bossa nova records by American musicians (including Getz) employed actual Brazilian players. This was many people's first exposure to this music, and I think it's difficult to find fault with Stan's playing, whether or not one likes the other musicians.

Stan took to this music like a fish to water, although later on I believe he got tired of audiences' demand for more bossa nova after he felt he had said all he had to say within the style.

[MartyJazz]

I think this is a lovely record, despite its faults. The American rhythm section is stiff, which is why many subsequent bossa nova records by American musicians (including Getz) employed actual Brazilian players. This was many people's first exposure to this music, and I think it's difficult to find fault with Stan's playing, whether or not one likes the other musicians.

Stan took to this music like a fish to water, although later on I believe he got tired of audiences' demand for more bossa nova after he felt he had said all he had to say within the style.

Indeed, I have a video concert of Stan done around '83 wherein he plays "Desafinado" and at the conclusion, he says rather dismissively, "OK, now that we got that out of the way.....", before launching into a non-Bossa Nova piece.

[The Magnificent Goldberg]

Oh, are we starting to talk about the actual music now?

I was never a Getz fan. Like Brubeck and Desmond, he was playing some other kind of music from what I was buying - greeeeeaaaasssssyyyy stuff even then So my approach to "Desafinado" (and earlier, "Take five") was pretty much that of the average pop buyer.

As pop records, I thought they were both wonderful! What really made them hits was something radically different from the kind of thing that made most pop records hits in those days - a kind of limited danceability, which "Take five" certainly didn't have for most people - you really can't jive in 5/4, although, once you got the hang of it, bossa novas were pretty sexy to dance to. I think people were really grabbed by the extremely attractive and melodic improvisations of Getz and Desmond. Even if you're not a jazz fan, you can easily sing along with those solos. As I recall, they don't stray much beyond most people's vocal range.

It's very hard to be that simple and melodic and still be playing meaningfully and relying, with some conviction, on the melody to get through. Very few jazz musicians have ever managed it, certainly not since the forties. So, though it's not my taste, many props to Getz for managing it.

MG

[Stereojack]

It's very hard to be that simple and melodic and still be playing meaningfully and relying, with some conviction, on the melody to get through. Very few jazz musicians have ever managed it, certainly not since the forties. So, though it's not my taste, many props to Getz for managing it.

I think Stan Getz' playing (and Desmond's for that matter) is anything but simple! Even in the most mundane of settings, he always manages to play with great inspiration and artistry.

[The Magnificent Goldberg]

It's very hard to be that simple and melodic and still be playing meaningfully and relying, with some conviction, on the melody to get through. Very few jazz musicians have ever managed it, certainly not since the forties. So, though it's not my taste, many props to Getz for managing it.

I think Stan Getz' playing (and Desmond's for that matter) is anything but simple! Even in the most mundane of settings, he always manages to play with great inspiration and artistry.

Well, he's improvising simple catchy tunes that people can get easily. That's what it sounds like. I don't think that's easy.

MG

[medjuck]

IIRC there was a jazz dj in Toronto who played Desafinado to death. Getz used to thank him for putting his (Getz's) kids through college. As a result the Lp broke big in Toronto and then swept the continent.

As to the beginnings of Bossa Nova: where (if anywhere) do the Bud Shank/ Laurindo Almeda "Braziliance" (1953!) and the soundtrack to Black Orpheus fit in. I think Black Orpheus is post 1958 and maybe Brailliance is only Bossa Nova in retrospect.

[White Lightning]

As to the beginnings of Bossa Nova: where (if anywhere) do the Bud Shank/ Laurindo Almeda "Braziliance" (1953!) and the soundtrack to Black Orpheus fit in. I think Black Orpheus is post 1958 and maybe Brailliance is only Bossa Nova in retrospect.

Brazilliance was probably the first Brazillian Jazz records recorded in the US. But it's not Bosa Nova. The Rhythm section is wrong, and rhythm is a key player of that style.

[Shrdlu]

I love that "Big Band Bossa Nova" album too. I never knew of its existence in the 60s, and only recently heard it when it was reissued as one of those marvelous mini LP CDs in Japan about 5 years ago. To me, it is way more interesting than the "Jazz Samba" album. My favorite track is "Chega de Saudade".