Hardbopjazz Posted April 23, 2004 Report Share Posted April 23, 2004 (edited) April 26th is coming, so I'll list the album that I'd like to discuss. It will be Horace Silver's Doin' the Thing. Recorded live at The Village Gate, NYC on May 19,20 1961. A now defunct Night Club. I've been there, and it was a great sounding club, anywhere you sat. I saw Phil Woods and Jon Hendricks. Line up, Horace Silver- Piano Blue Mitchell- Trumpet Junior Cook- Tenor Sax Gene Taylor- Bass Roy Brooks- Drums Tracks 1) Filthy McNasty 2) Doin' the Thing 3) Kiss Me Kate 4) The Gringo 5) The Theme (Cool Eyes) Edited April 26, 2004 by Hardbopjazz Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
undergroundagent Posted April 24, 2004 Report Share Posted April 24, 2004 (edited) Two words for you: FILTHY MCNASTY!! This is just a great live recording. Certainly not the Quintet's best work, but it's nice to have some documentation of them in a live setting. Blue Mitchell, as always, smokes!!! I'm looking forward to seeing Silver a week from tomorrow at the Blue Note. Edited April 24, 2004 by undergroundagent Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tooter Posted April 24, 2004 Report Share Posted April 24, 2004 Tom - thanks - I will get listening. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hardbopjazz Posted April 25, 2004 Author Report Share Posted April 25, 2004 This lineup was together for a number of years, which is a feat in itself for a jazz group. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BruceH Posted April 25, 2004 Report Share Posted April 25, 2004 My favorite thing on this album is the first track, "Filthy McNasty." A great slab of live hardbop. Any compilation of the best of Horace Silver should include it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mikeweil Posted April 26, 2004 Report Share Posted April 26, 2004 What do you think of the bonus tracks included? I know some diehard originalist in Frankfurt who passed by this CD because he found them to be inferior to the Lp as issued. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hardbopjazz Posted April 26, 2004 Author Report Share Posted April 26, 2004 I'm listening to the TOCJ version. I haven't heard the bonus tracks yet. The tracks from the orininal release are great for a live performance. Blue Mitchell is on the top of his game. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tooter Posted April 26, 2004 Report Share Posted April 26, 2004 Well, it's April 26 now so here is my reaction. I have only got the LP so no bonus tracks, just the four. I've looked at AMG - no bonus tracks shown there. I agree that the first track is the highlight of the album. The title give it a certain something I guess but the music is energetic and there are good solos throughout. However, while Blue and Junior continue to solo well on the other three tunes, I can't say that I like Horace's contributions all that much. His solos seem disjointed, to lack continuity and cohesion. There are lots of quotes and they basically sound like a lot of odd bits cobbled together, if that's not too strong. There's a long quote I think at the beginning of his solo on the third tune - is it "Delilah"? I know Horace is capable of much better than this. IMO this was on the whole one of his off nights. Spoils the album for me I'm afraid. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eric Posted April 26, 2004 Report Share Posted April 26, 2004 My favorite thing on this album is the first track, "Filthy McNasty." A great slab of live hardbop. Any compilation of the best of Horace Silver should include it. Yeah baby - that is a KILLER track - one of my favorite jazz tunes of all time. Eric Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mikeweil Posted April 26, 2004 Report Share Posted April 26, 2004 The 1988 Blue Note CD included two bonus tracks: Cool Eyes (alternate take) 3:50 It Ain't Supposed To Be Like That 6:21 Both had been previously issued on a Blue Note LP with leftovers (including the vocal version of Senor Blues and its instrumental flip side), called Sterling Silver. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popper Lou Posted April 27, 2004 Report Share Posted April 27, 2004 The 1988 Blue Note CD included two bonus tracks: Cool Eyes (alternate take) 3:50 It Ain't Supposed To Be Like That 6:21 Both had been previously issued on a Blue Note LP with leftovers (including the vocal version of Senor Blues and its instrumental flip side), called Sterling Silver. I've heard the 1988 release of this album. The 2 bonus tracks shouldn't have been added. They are both sloppy performances. The rest of the album cooks. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hardbopjazz Posted April 27, 2004 Author Report Share Posted April 27, 2004 How bad can these 2 other tracks be? Cuscuna, usually doesn't release anything that is sub par. He follows Lion’s approach when releasing recodings. The Blue Note discography list a bunch of other tunes recorded those 2 nights in May 1961. All listed as rejected. Now I have to track down a copy of this . The TOCJ is great. I find the band tight start to finish. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JohnS Posted April 27, 2004 Report Share Posted April 27, 2004 I have this on lp. I'd forgotten that "Sterling Silver" has two additional tracks. I'll have to give that a play. Thanks for the reminder Mike. This album is not one I normally dig out when I want to hear some Silver despite the fact that this is one of the great bands in jazz. Don't know why, this one is pretty hot, exciting and presumably a good example of the band in a live situation. Nice to play it again but it's still not going to be my first choice. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
king ubu Posted April 27, 2004 Report Share Posted April 27, 2004 When is this going to be reissued? And why will it be copy protected - and thus not bought from me... ubu Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
undergroundagent Posted April 27, 2004 Report Share Posted April 27, 2004 There's no reissue in sight. It was, however, released as a Collector's Choice, and also as a TOCJ and JRVG. I have the JRVG; it sounds great! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
catesta Posted April 27, 2004 Report Share Posted April 27, 2004 I had this one playing while driving to Las Vegas last weekend. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BruceH Posted April 27, 2004 Report Share Posted April 27, 2004 I have this on lp. I'd forgotten that "Sterling Silver" has two additional tracks. I'll have to give that a play. Thanks for the reminder Mike. This album is not one I normally dig out when I want to hear some Silver despite the fact that this is one of the great bands in jazz. Don't know why, this one is pretty hot, exciting and presumably a good example of the band in a live situation. Nice to play it again but it's still not going to be my first choice. Well, yeah. Cooking as this album is, on the whole it strikes me as something to get AFTER you've collected all the studio albums by this quintet. The studio stuff is the gold standard. Good thing to have though. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mikeweil Posted April 27, 2004 Report Share Posted April 27, 2004 I agree that it may be better to start with the studio albums of the Mitchell/Cook edition of Silver's band. They are a lot more relaxed although they have their share of uptempo numbers. This live album is all hot. The two bonus tracks are more laid back, so they may sound substandard to some, but I think they are a welcome change of pace. Alfred Lion and Rudy Van Gelder often rejected live material, it may have been for technical reasons rather than musical ones. One instrument being off balance or the like. Rudy used to close the mikes of each soloist after he was finished, and I have the impressions he was slow to react when he had to re-open the respective channel. At the end of the drum solo in the title track, he hastily fades in when the audience starts clapping, and leaves it open, giving more room ambience, listen to the change in sound! I wish he had left all mikes open all the time. He almost ruined Art Blakey's Orgy In Rhythm by opening and closing the mikes all the time, and reacting slowly when someone resumed playing. As he recorded directly to two-track stereo, there was nothing to be done when he missed the horns' entrance for a riff or theme. The better live engineers left all channels open all the time. I never liked Rudy's sound, nor the soundstage he preferred, drums and trumpet and most of the bass on the left here, piano and tenor on the right, with almost nothing in the center stage. A primitive conception of stereo. And he didn't know the proper place for the drum overhead mike, because you almost never hear the bass drum, only during drum solos. If the music wasn't that great ... BTW: did any of you ever notice that the theme, Cool Eyes, uses part of the theme of a tune Silver recorded on his only non-Blue Note LP, for EPIC, he called To Beat Or Not To Beat? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hardbopjazz Posted April 27, 2004 Author Report Share Posted April 27, 2004 BTW: did any of you ever notice that the theme, Cool Eyes, uses part of the theme of a tune Silver recorded on his only non-Blue Note LP, for EPIC, he called To Beat Or Not To Beat? At the ver end of the CD, there is a taste of Cool Eyes. I thought Rudy just faded out. Now I think the group went in to that number next. I have to check the Blue Note discography to see if Coll eyes follows The Theme which is the last tune on the album. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chris olivarez Posted April 27, 2004 Report Share Posted April 27, 2004 I have a JRVG of this thanks to Brad who was kind enough to go out and cop it for me and I wish to second Undergroundagent on the sound quality-it is excellent!!! Maybe this isn't this bands best effort but truth be told a lot of bands would be ecstatic with an effort like this. An absolutely smoking live set!!!!!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hardbopjazz Posted April 27, 2004 Author Report Share Posted April 27, 2004 Mitchell's playing is so clean on this live record. He is so unrated as a trumpet player in my opinion. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chris olivarez Posted April 28, 2004 Report Share Posted April 28, 2004 Agreed. Blue Mitchell is very much an underrated trumpet player. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wolff Posted April 28, 2004 Report Share Posted April 28, 2004 I've had this LP for a long time, and play it quite a bit. I bought it at the rare garage sale (at the beginning of the digital age) where owner was selling off his jazz collection. I play it because of the up-tempo tunes and the live energy that comes across quite well. As others have mentioned Mitchell cooks. When I want to hear Blue Mitchell I grab one of his Silver LP's not the one's he led. That's just me. There are some very nice solos by all involved. I really like Cook's solo on "Kiss Me Right". Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JohnS Posted April 28, 2004 Report Share Posted April 28, 2004 Just given the two extra tracks a play. Neither are essential items in the Silver discography. "It Aint Supposed To Be Like That" is at a pedestrian medium tempo and doesn't catch fire. The version of "Cool Eyes" is livelier but at 3.55 it isn't long enough for a lot to happen, except for Mitchell's "buttons and bows" quote. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jim R Posted April 28, 2004 Report Share Posted April 28, 2004 I can't say that I like Horace's contributions all that much. His solos seem disjointed, to lack continuity and cohesion. There are lots of quotes and they basically sound like a lot of odd bits cobbled together, if that's not too strong. There's a long quote I think at the beginning of his solo on the third tune - is it "Delilah"? I know Horace is capable of much better than this. IMO this was on the whole one of his off nights. Spoils the album for me I'm afraid. Interesting... I'm not sure I would agree, though. This isn't among my favorite H.S. albums either, but I don't quite hear Horace's solo(s) the way you do. Just out of curiosity, I'm wondering what others hear on that third (on the original LP; 5th on the 1988 CD) track, "kiss me right", in terms of Horace's quotes. I happen to be a fan of quoters (and Horace was certainly fond of doing so) in general, but I don't get the feeling that Horace was struggling on this track. Anyway, just for fun, what do you guys hear? I don't hear "Delilah"... not sure I hear any "long" quote, either. Here's what I can pick out: I wish I were in love again (sort of hints at it) Joshua fit de battle of Jericho Tempus Fugue-it (couldn't quite place it until I realized it was mentioned in the liner notes) Oop-bop-sh'bam Filthy McNasty ------------ A little related trivia... on May 19, 1961, Miles was also recording live- at Carnegie Hall. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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