Michael Fitzgerald

Absolutely there is alto on TMP and it has been listed (as played by Hosea Taylor) in discographies for years. The only other appearsances I know of for Hosea Taylor are on alto for Solomon Ilori's album "African High Life" (1963) and on bassoon for Yusef Lateef's "The Centaur and the Phoenix" (1960). Regarding the "quintet" mention, obviously Cuscuna slipped in his little note for the 1987 CD. Like other BN CDs, there are also problems with asterisks - both TMP and TC have asterisks, which theoretically mean "Does not appear on L.P. configuration," however we also see "Hosea Taylor*, bassoon" and "Herbie Hancock, piano & celeste*" listed. So it's not possible to decipher the specific personnel from the credits. I'll take this opportunity to correct another bit of misinformation from this session - that ain't no celeste. It's a harpsichord. Even considering the mixup of celeste/harpsichord, this is listed incorrectly in both the Cuscuna & Ruppli book (1st ed) and the Bruyninckx and Lord discographies. They list celeste on TMP. Wrong - Hancock plays only piano on TMP. The harpsichord only appears on TC. I don't have the 2nd edition Cuscuna & Ruppli, so I don't know if anything has been corrected there. Mike

Found another Monk & Mingus appearance - December 9, 1971 at Boston Gardens with the Giants Of Jazz (Gillespie, Stitt, Winding, Blakey). Still no tapes. Mike

The Music Inn album with the MJQ was on Atlantic and the Giuffre portions (Da Capo and Fine) are included in the Mosaic Capitol/Atlantic JG set. The Anita O'Day material arranged by Giuffre is, quite logically, included in the Mosaic Anita O'Day set. Mike

Rabinowitz is a killer! The only other bassoonist worth worrying about is Ray Pizzi. I believe the only bassoonist with Sun Ra was James Jacson. That was the main axe he played with the band. But he wasn't a player like MR or RP (and they wouldn't have fit in with the Arkestra anyway). Mike

I am not aware of *any* alternative takes that are not in the Atlantic boxed set. Now, the Complete Impulse Quartet boxed set, that's a whole nother story. Yes, plenty of additional material being added to single CD issues there. There is the edited 45 rpm version of My Favorite Things, though. That came out on the 50th Anniversary single CD issue of MFT after the Atlantic set was already out. It's not anything new, just a spliced version of what we all know and love. As far as I know, they STILL have not fixed the fuckup on Equinox - the introduction is clipped by a few notes. I bought the box when it came out and was told this would be fixed - never has been. That's one downside. Mike

To keep the comparison fair, I think one would have to look at contemporary recordings, so the Vee Jay solo stuff and the Blakey, and then the Blue Note solo stuff and his work with Miles. I'm partial to the sextet Messengers, where Wayne was only one of several excellent composer/arrangers (the phenomenal Mosaic album has only ONE tune by Wayne!). The addition of the trombone allowed for creative voicings (often with the saxophone on bottom rather than trombone). Unless I am mistaken, the only tune that Wayne recorded both solo and with the Messengers was "I Didn't Know What Time It Was" (on Second Genesis and on Ugetsu). But it's not his composition anyway. If you are a fan of that Miles band, try the Blue Note solo albums - Speak No Evil, Soothsayer, All Seeing Eye, all recorded within a year of each other, just after joining Miles. Some similarities to the Miles sound in terms of harmonic sound but also very different in terms of rhythm and arrangements. Mike

Nope - that's from February 19, 1970. There is some overlap in topics - "Lee Morgan: The Last Interview" focuses on "the dilemma of jazz in America" - recognition, TV, the Jazz & People's Movement, etc. Mike

I have it here - April 27, 1972. If Dmitry will email me, I'll scan him a copy. It's only one page, done by Michael Bourne. Mike P.S. - the facing page features this mention: The Jazz Set, a weekly half-hour TV program co-produced by director Peter Anderson and Chris Albertson, the well-known writer and record producer, has hitherto been broadcast only on its station of origin., WNJT (Channel 52), a UHV outlet in Trenton, NJ. Starting in July, selected programs from the series will be seen nationwide over PBS stations on 13 consecutive Thursday nights. Shows taped so far include a wide variety of music by, among others, Roy Haynes' Hip Ensemble, Jimmy Heath's All Stars, the Jazz Contemporaries, Houston Person, Clifford Jordan with singers DeeDee Bridgewater and Sheila Jordan, Rashied Ali, Sam Wooding, Joe Lee Wilson, Bobby Brown, Barry Miles, Randy Weston, Kenny Davern, Joe McPhee and Lonnie Smith. On a few of the shows, Dan Morgenstern subbed for Albertson as host and co-producer. CA - too bad you couldn't get some names for the show! Are these skeletons in your closet as well?

But of course, sex sells and smarts don't. One can think of hundreds of examples in media, politics, etc. Or perhaps more precisely, sex sells more than smarts do. As for breakup album titles, I'll go with: Goodbye Krall World. Mike

Agree with Alexander. My only hope is that being married to Costello will force DK out of the public eye as it apparently did for CO. Mike

Just checked NYT microfilm and Sunday 8/13/78 p. D28 has the following: George Russell Big Band - a superb group playing the distinctive compositions of Russell, a composer who is both exploratory and communicative. Village Vanguard, 178 Seventh Ave. South, Tues-next Sun. So - the band WAS at the Vanguard during the time of the 8/16 recording date. BTW, apparently there was a newspaper strike around this time so it is difficult to get information from about 8/10 on. I think the Sunday stuff had already been printed before the strike. Mike

Highly unlikely - I have references to Vanguard gigs as follows: Eddie Vinson - 1978.08.29 - 1979.09.03 Sonny Fortune - thru 1978.10.08 Sam Jones/Tom Harrell Big Band - 2 Mondays (1978.10.09, 1978.10.16) Randy Weston - 1978.10.10 - 1978.10.15 Bobby Hutcherson - 1978.10.17 - 1978.10.22 Bill Evans - 1978.10.24 - 1978.10.29 Heath Brothers - 1978.10.31 - 1978.11.05 Woody Shaw - 1978.11.07 - 1978.11.12 Slide Hampton - 1978.11.14 - 1978.11.19 If you have NYT microfilm, try the Friday paper instead of the Sunday. That's where the clubs advertise (at least for the past few decades). Mike

Organ has definitely been heard at the Vanguard, off the top of my head I know Tony Williams played there with Larry Young & John McLaughlin. It was reviewed in Down Beat. And John Abercrombie has gigged there with his organ trio. I'll see if I can pinpoint anything on the 1978 date through some periodical research. It was just a couple of weeks after Woody Shaw recorded there. Yes, Thad & Mel were playing Mondays at that time. From Coda #162 (dated August 1, 1978 - but that's not like a newspaper date) "The recent retrospective of his work at the Village Vanguard is rather late in coming - in actuality, too late." Down Beat June 15, 1978 has an upcoming listing for George Russell Big Band at the Vanguard "thru 6/4" - so it seems unlikely that they played there two months later. This is not absolute information, but it does start to sway the balance against the 8/16/78 album being recorded live at the Vanguard. I'll try to follow up with the definitive word - probably need to check newspapers. Mike

Lord just says New York, but that doesn't mean anything. Sometimes it says New York for stuff recorded at Van Gelder's. Are they saying that the *setlist* is a simulation - i.e., it's not a straight-through first-to-last recording, but with tunes taken from various sets and reconstructed? Is there no mention of a recording studio? The Thad/Mel/Vanguard band recorded about six live things there and the Slide Hampton Jazzmasters band was 12 pieces, pretty big. Also the Mulligan Concert Jazz Band (13). Recording a large ensemble can be as simple as having a pair of microphones on a single stand. Mike

No, this is NOT Walter Gilbert Fuller (1920-1994), this is Walter Fuller (1910-2003) So only the original post in this thread relates to the person in question. Mike

Another one for the time machine is the evening immortalized as "A Night At Tony's" by Gigi Gryce who appeared in Brooklyn with "the four M's" - Miles, Monk, Mingus, and Max. Any skepticism about this can be dispelled by looking at the photos in the latest edition of the Art Taylor "Notes and Tones" book. Also, Henri Renaud was in the audience for it and mentioned it in a French magazine at the time. The gig was March 20-21, 1954 at Tony's Club Grandean. I don't know if it belongs in the "looks good on paper" category or not, but I would love to have a tape. Of course, another meeting by Mingus and Monk is in the Great Day in Harlem photo. Mike

David - So you can confirm that Carl Brown was a real guy and not a pseudonym for Charlie Haden, as suggested by some here: http://www.organissimo.org/forum/index.php...7&hl=carl+brown Mike

Apparently Miles was called in to replace Jaki Byard. And reportedly Reggie Workman on bass - does that fit with your recollection? Mike

The issue had to have been published much later than January 1958. The picture was taken on August 13, 1958. I think it was January 1959. Charlie Graham has a book called "The Great Jazz Day" related to the photo. I don't own it and I'm not sure whether it reprints the Esquire article. Mike

But Money Jungle isn't a Blue Note session. Speaking post-1954: Audio-Video Studios was used for Thad Jones and Kenny Burrell sessions in 1956. Manhattan Towers was used for quite a bit in 1957-58 - several Jimmy Smiths in addition to the Blakeys (Holiday for Skins too). Other European sessions - Dexter Gordon "One Flight Up," Hank Mobley "The Flip." Mike

Gigi Gryce and Benny Golson arranged an album for Cleveland called "Rhythm Crazy" (EmArcy) in February 1959. Cleveland still has the arrangements and said he has used them with groups in the past. The next month (March 9), Gryce also contributed to the Curtis Fuller album that is mistakenly listed. He arranged CTA by Jimmy Heath and Down Home by Fuller. The Fuller is part of the Mosaic set. I think a Cleveland Mosaic would be ideal. Mike

Listening now - a pretty nice session, a little loose. The pianist is Enrico Pieranunzi who contributes one original (Echi). It's good to hear Baker on that because it's not a typical piece for him. I've long loved the title tune and Baker playing those long tones adds something special. That was the main reason I bought it. The others are Visa (one of two Charlie Parker tunes with this title), Conception (George Shearing), Round Midnight, and My Funny Valentine. Baker sings on the last only. Pieranunzi plays a great solo on RM. Haden is Haden, exactly as one might expect. Mix isn't great. At times the piano sounds very strange. Almost like it was overdubbed. It's high in the mix and has an odd timbre. Maybe too close-miked? It was recorded in 1987 but was not issued until 1989, after Baker's death. gemm.com lists a few kinda high-priced options. Mike

I said if you didn't know of George Russell and his work that something was lacking in your theory education. It seems obvious that what is lacking is awareness of the only theoretical concept that jazz has produced. No more, no less. If you take that as an insult to your education, so be it. As far as I can tell, it's just a fact. As for value statements, you were the one to say that up until recently you felt that avant garde jazz didn't have much merit. If you NOW have as little experience as you claim, I can't possibly imagine how much experience you had back then when you were making this value statement. I guess you are misreading my post. I'm not sure why you feel it is aggressive to point out that your lack of experience (listening at the very least, to say nothing of performing) is a fundamental hindrance. I have no issue with the tone of your posts. It's the content and approach. I've pointed out several resources that might be of relevance, but you seem to want to jump in and talk in some detail about something you haven't heard. To my way of thinking, one first listens and reads and then discusses, analyzes, evaluates. You seem to have started from the other end and are working your way backwards. I am very willing to share information and discuss things. Education is my profession. But I'm not about to get into things on the subject of the abstract expressionist school of art without having everyone *SEE* the paintings and know which ones we're talking about. If you are interested in doing the (in my view) required listening, here's another resource that might help. http://users.bestweb.net/~msnyder/avantgarde/avant.htm Mike

What is so bad about being atonal, anyway? If all avant garde jazz were atonal would that be OK? If you are interested in Braxton's music, I strongly recommend "Forces In Motion," a book by Graham Lock. Plenty of discussion there by Braxton that addresses a whole ton of things in his music and the music of others with whom he has worked. The Lydian Chromatic Concept of Tonal Organization is a landmark work in theory that has been around for half a century. Composer George Russell has been professor at New England Conservatory since 1969. If you've never heard of him, it seems something is definitely lacking in your theory education. The new edition of the book was published last year. www.georgerussell.com I'm sorry, but if you can't tell me even a single piece that is giving you this overwhelming impression of chaos, I can't really help you. Right now, it sounds to me like you haven't got enough experience with this kind of music and need to do some listening. If I'm wrong, please correct me by naming names. You did that well enough with Bach and Ligeti. How do you expect to discuss something that you haven't experienced? Mike

The world of "avant garde jazz" is a very wide one. What exactly are you listening to and what exactly are you hearing? The musics of Sun Ra and Anthony Braxton, for example, are very different and both are highly concerned with structure. I suspect that it is impossible to make a blanket statement about what the specific goals are of every single composition/performance by every single artist. In the article I mentioned, Dolphy says, "Music is a reflection of everything. And it's universal," and Coltrane echoes this, "It's a reflection of the universe. Like having life in miniature. You just take a situation in life or an emotion you know and put it into music. You take a scene you've seen, for instance, and put it into music." But certain of, say, Coltrane's pieces, have very strong structures - the final movement of A Love Supreme being a musical reading of a poem, for example. If something is beyond your ear, then perhaps the solution is to listen more. Or listen differently. But I don't know how much you have listened to. Though perhaps you have already implied that you are relatively new to jazz. BTW, your anonymity and assumption of the title of "Jazz" don't encourage open discussion. Sad to say, but there is a history of "trolls" on the Internet, particularly those who would banish avant garde jazz to some other universe. Mike