Michael Fitzgerald

Gigi Gryce and Benny Golson arranged an album for Cleveland called "Rhythm Crazy" (EmArcy) in February 1959. Cleveland still has the arrangements and said he has used them with groups in the past. The next month (March 9), Gryce also contributed to the Curtis Fuller album that is mistakenly listed. He arranged CTA by Jimmy Heath and Down Home by Fuller. The Fuller is part of the Mosaic set. I think a Cleveland Mosaic would be ideal. Mike

Listening now - a pretty nice session, a little loose. The pianist is Enrico Pieranunzi who contributes one original (Echi). It's good to hear Baker on that because it's not a typical piece for him. I've long loved the title tune and Baker playing those long tones adds something special. That was the main reason I bought it. The others are Visa (one of two Charlie Parker tunes with this title), Conception (George Shearing), Round Midnight, and My Funny Valentine. Baker sings on the last only. Pieranunzi plays a great solo on RM. Haden is Haden, exactly as one might expect. Mix isn't great. At times the piano sounds very strange. Almost like it was overdubbed. It's high in the mix and has an odd timbre. Maybe too close-miked? It was recorded in 1987 but was not issued until 1989, after Baker's death. gemm.com lists a few kinda high-priced options. Mike

I said if you didn't know of George Russell and his work that something was lacking in your theory education. It seems obvious that what is lacking is awareness of the only theoretical concept that jazz has produced. No more, no less. If you take that as an insult to your education, so be it. As far as I can tell, it's just a fact. As for value statements, you were the one to say that up until recently you felt that avant garde jazz didn't have much merit. If you NOW have as little experience as you claim, I can't possibly imagine how much experience you had back then when you were making this value statement. I guess you are misreading my post. I'm not sure why you feel it is aggressive to point out that your lack of experience (listening at the very least, to say nothing of performing) is a fundamental hindrance. I have no issue with the tone of your posts. It's the content and approach. I've pointed out several resources that might be of relevance, but you seem to want to jump in and talk in some detail about something you haven't heard. To my way of thinking, one first listens and reads and then discusses, analyzes, evaluates. You seem to have started from the other end and are working your way backwards. I am very willing to share information and discuss things. Education is my profession. But I'm not about to get into things on the subject of the abstract expressionist school of art without having everyone *SEE* the paintings and know which ones we're talking about. If you are interested in doing the (in my view) required listening, here's another resource that might help. http://users.bestweb.net/~msnyder/avantgarde/avant.htm Mike

What is so bad about being atonal, anyway? If all avant garde jazz were atonal would that be OK? If you are interested in Braxton's music, I strongly recommend "Forces In Motion," a book by Graham Lock. Plenty of discussion there by Braxton that addresses a whole ton of things in his music and the music of others with whom he has worked. The Lydian Chromatic Concept of Tonal Organization is a landmark work in theory that has been around for half a century. Composer George Russell has been professor at New England Conservatory since 1969. If you've never heard of him, it seems something is definitely lacking in your theory education. The new edition of the book was published last year. www.georgerussell.com I'm sorry, but if you can't tell me even a single piece that is giving you this overwhelming impression of chaos, I can't really help you. Right now, it sounds to me like you haven't got enough experience with this kind of music and need to do some listening. If I'm wrong, please correct me by naming names. You did that well enough with Bach and Ligeti. How do you expect to discuss something that you haven't experienced? Mike

The world of "avant garde jazz" is a very wide one. What exactly are you listening to and what exactly are you hearing? The musics of Sun Ra and Anthony Braxton, for example, are very different and both are highly concerned with structure. I suspect that it is impossible to make a blanket statement about what the specific goals are of every single composition/performance by every single artist. In the article I mentioned, Dolphy says, "Music is a reflection of everything. And it's universal," and Coltrane echoes this, "It's a reflection of the universe. Like having life in miniature. You just take a situation in life or an emotion you know and put it into music. You take a scene you've seen, for instance, and put it into music." But certain of, say, Coltrane's pieces, have very strong structures - the final movement of A Love Supreme being a musical reading of a poem, for example. If something is beyond your ear, then perhaps the solution is to listen more. Or listen differently. But I don't know how much you have listened to. Though perhaps you have already implied that you are relatively new to jazz. BTW, your anonymity and assumption of the title of "Jazz" don't encourage open discussion. Sad to say, but there is a history of "trolls" on the Internet, particularly those who would banish avant garde jazz to some other universe. Mike

No, entirely different material from same gig. No Coleman Hawkins. Mike

Anything about chaos may well be your interpretation and projection, not the aspiration of any artist. In my view, the goal of avant garde jazz, or avant garde classical music, or any jazz, or any music, or any art - is expression. I also think your viewing straightahead jazz as modal is off the mark and limiting. Modal playing is but one of many approaches used in the style. In your intense study of tonal theory did you somehow stop at some point in music's development? Because dissonance is a vital part of what has charged music going back for centuries. I would think that a study of tonal theory would show how dissonance has evolved. Same thing with rhythmic freedom. Suggest you take a look at "Coltrane and Dolphy Answer the Critics" from Down Beat 4/12/62, reprinted in The John Coltrane Companion, edited by Carl Woideck. There are a number of other sources that might be worthwhile as well. Mike

It may be on a foreign version of Blue Break Beats vol. 2 - if someone can confirm this, I would like to add it to the Duke Pearson discography on my WWW site. Mike

I doubt it was the intention, but I have problems with the idea of separating out women - put them in the ghetto, give them their own list and then we won't have to worry about them the rest of the time. Same thing with Black History Month. In my field of public school education, I see it all the time. The grant money goes to those who use the right buzzwords and we see token acknowledgment. "The greatest female guitarist/vibraphonist/whatever in the history of jazz!" It's demeaning, isn't it? So many amazing artists have had the same kind of bad treatment. Joni Mitchell, the greatest female singer-songwriter. In terms of my own work, I've done a lot of research on Abbey Lincoln, Shirley Horn, and Renee Rosnes - for the same reasons I study anyone - because their music is great and individual. I don't worry so much about "influential." I think that the "behind the scenes" world is very much worth mentioning, as others have done - Lorraine Gordon of the Village Vanguard (and formerly Blue Note Records), and a number of managers, including Gladys Hampton, Maxine Gregg, JoAnne Jimenez, and (though I don't like much of what she's done) Mary Ann Topper. Because these people aren't in the spotlight, they aren't as well known, but I think they'd rate high on a list of people in such positions, whether female or not. Mike

Waller or Navarro? Diz Dizley? Dizzy Reece? Hank Crawford? Duke Pearson? Meredith Monk? Monk Montgomery? Buddy Miles? Come on, we need some REAL distinctive names: Dusko, Sirone, Muhal, Airto, Avishai, Santi, Tootie, Olatunji, Hannibal, Patato, Cachao, Varty, NHØP, Åke, Vijay, Urbie, Paquito, Jiggs, Grady, Cedar, Muruga, Badal, Nana..... Mike (not even close)

I don't own it yet, but Haydon was in contact with me when he was writing it in 2000. He had some questions about Dizzy Gillespie. I was surprised that there would be another book after "Cool Blues: Charlie Parker in Canada 1953" by Mark Miller, which is a nice little book (115 pages), but everything that I have heard about the Haydon book (312 pages) has been good. Now that I know where it can be had, I'll try to pick it up. Mike

Mike, are you affiliated with the HJS? Mike

There are actually two Starsky & Hutch themes - Lalo Schifrin wrote the first year's theme, but the one I immediately think of is a piece titled "Gotcha" by Tom Scott, which was used from the second year on. I can't recall the Schifrin one at all. Mike

Speaking of confused dates - I note that the db blurb I posted says Feb. 25 and speaks in the past tense - but everything for the Verve issue says March 4. In fact, it was technically March 5. The ad in the Village Voice (March 2, 1961) says "Sat. eve. March 4th at midnight." Mike

As the world knows all too well from white-collar crime.... That's from in between the folks I'm really interested in (Davis & Barron), but I've filed it away for future reference, never know when it might come in handy. Thanks for the story and the precise reference. I think Kenny told me he joined the band in November. Mike

Yup - right you are. "A concert sponsored by M-G-M/Verve records was held at Carnegie Hall Feb. 25 to premiere Argentine pianist Lalo Schifrin's Gillespiana, a suite composed for trumpeter Dizzy Gillespie and a 20-piece orchestra. The work was recorded for Norman Granz last November with the Gillespie quintet augmented by Clark Terry, Joe Wilder, Ernie Royal, Frank Rehak, Urbie Green, Candido, and Julius Watkins, among others. Disc jockey Mort Fega of WEVD gave the commentary on the five movements of the suite - Prelude, The Blues, Africana, Pan-Americana, and Toccata. Other composers working on compositions for Gillespie include trombonist J.J. Johnson and arranger-composer Robert Farnon." Down Beat, March 16, 1961 p. 10 Drag that it doesn't seem to have been recorded. BTW, it was scheduled to be performed at Monterey in 1961 (September 23). There is a tape from that show, but again, what has been issued doesn't include the suite. Mike

Are you sure that Gillespiana was performed at the Carnegie Hall concert? It's certainly never been listed in any discography as an unissued performance. The unissued tracks from Carnegie Hall are: Things To Come; Ow!; Emanon; Con Alma; and I Waited For You. I'm skeptical that they did the entire 40 minute suite in addition to the 10 known tracks. I haven't gone looking for reviews of the show yet. Also, about the date of that Salle Pleyel show - what source gives November 24? I have seen November 20 and November 25. I believe November 25 to be correct, going from Chris Sheridan's Cannonball Adderley book (Adderley was part of the JATP tour and his concert at the Salle Pleyel were issued by Pablo). It's tantalizing to think that perhaps the entire Gillespie show was filmed (the Adderley was). On November 24, the tour was in Munich and on November 20 they were scheduled for Berlin, but that show was postponed to December 2. Anyway - Gillespiana is a great piece, but I'm more partial to Perceptions. I prefer JJ's writing to Lalo's. I'm working on discographies of Art Davis and of Kenny Barron, so that 1960s Gillespie period is of great interest to me. Gillespie fairly frequently played parts of the suite, don't know about the entire thing. He recorded another version of Blues with Kenny Barron in 1965 at Carnegie Hall, issued on the Limelight label but that track only on CD. I heard him do at least two movements with Sam Rivers in the late 1980s. Toccata and Blues, I think. Mike

*Some* record club pressings had the black instead of blue, so my copy of Charlie Parker at Storyville has the black and silver, but my copy of Cannonball Somethin' Else is blue. Both are marked as from BMG. I know Ready for Freddie was in a record club long after it was supposedly out of print (as a connoisseur) - check the catalog number. A non-BMG black and silver one is my copy of 3 Sounds - It Club v.1 (but not v.2) Mike

Hans - Where are you located? (ditto for you, Kevin) I've definitely made contacts with IAJRC members who have helped with things like the Gryce book. An idea that I just had is to see about publishing the discographical addenda to the book in the IAJRC Journal (and on my website). There have been some post-publication discoveries that we'd like to share before any second edition gets printed. The Journal might be a good place for that - besides, who else would print such a thing? Perhaps there is work that could be done in terms of coordinating something (there is more to the IAJRC than the Journal, though I haven't participated in the conventions). Or maybe you could collaborate with an English-speaker on a project. Do you have a speciality in terms of artist or label? I don't recall the specific hostility that you're referring to (I probably shrugged it off). I'll see if I can check on that in the back issues. There will always be idiots and musical bigots/zealots, even in the world of jazz fans. One does one's best to ignore. But is the hostility the reason you are not renewing or is it the lack of more coverage of modern styles? I was under the impression it was the latter. Glad to see the talk - it's important to discuss this, rather than just give up. Mike

I think only the Barth is not listed on the Vanguard site. Do you have a recording date for it? Mike

Just a little self-promotion - if you like the Incredibles, Pentangle, Nick Drake, et al. you might enjoy the CD "Nature's Bride" by Pamela Wyn Shannon. All original tunes, save one. My connection is that I wrote the arrangement on Nick Drake's "I Was Made to Love Magic." Danny Thompson was supposed to guest on the album but scheduling conflicts couldn't be resolved. http://singersong.homestead.com/folk2.html Mike

I am myself a member and am more interested in post-war jazz (WWII, that is) than pre-war. Though I enjoy it all, I do skip over many articles in the Journal. As someone told me once, if you (as a more modern fan) don't stay and participate then what can you expect? Believe me, the IAJRC and Journal now are *way* more inclusive than years ago. Honestly, the fans of pre-war jazz have a tough time in the world today. Radio stations like WBGO have programming policies that directly exclude their music and it's not like performances of that kind of music are anywhere near as common as bebop, hard bop, post bop, free jazz, fusion, etc. etc. There are some, of course. But for those people who think that Don Cherry was the vocalist from the Victor Young Orchestra, the Tomasz Stanko tribute to Cherry will be a rude awakening. (Not that WBGO doesn't have a policy excluding that music!!!) Going through the last 12 journals (to 2000), I find: a cover story on Texas Tenors, articles on Charlie Parker (2), V-discs, the Billy Eckstine film, the Deer Head Inn, the Randy Brooks band, Boris Rose (2), Paul Villepigue, Ladislav Habart, and as you mention, *plenty* of reviews that deal with more modern music. In terms of their CD issues, they have put out a 1986 Al Cohn concert and a set of 1954 Horace Henderson broadcasts, 1949/53 Herbie Fields, Oscar Pettiford 1953-60, and a Lucky Thompson, among others. For a little comparison, looking at the 1973 Journals I found NO post-war material, apart from the occasional review (Kenton, Ellington, Herman, Clifford Brown!). As has been mentioned at various times in the Journal, the IAJRC is looking for people to help - what better way to support your preference (and that of many other members) than by being more active as a member? And I don't mean just writing a letter expressing your displeasure - because we've seen those, and the responses from the early jazz guys who want *less* modern material in the Journal(!). Hoping you will reconsider, if just to know that there will be one more member out there with similar interests rather than one fewer. There is no similar organization/publication strictly for post-war jazz. Things at the IAJRC are getting better, not worse. Mike

There's a killer Renbourn track with Tony Roberts and Keshav Sathe called "Sidi Brahim" - I have it on a CD called John Barleycorn. Amazing flute solo - just stunning in the execution and clarity of ideas. For me, Pentangle doesn't quite hit the mark that Sandy-era FC does. I think it's the vocals. Still, great musicians, particularly Danny Thompson. The first albums are the ones for me: The Pentangle, Sweet Child, Basket Of Light, Cruel Sister. Early Classics has some of this stuff. There's another Shanachie compilation called A Maid That's Deep In Love with other stuff from this period. But the original format CDs are out there, some with bonus tracks. At least some of the Jansch albums are out in 2-fers. I have Jack Orion/Nicola. There's a nice Pentangle page at http://www.kneeling.co.uk/pages/pentangle/ I'm a great fan of late 1960s British folk stuff. Seems that was a special time and place - and it didn't last long. I don't think Pentangle or FC could have happened if they started a few years later. Has anyone got the Danny Thompson album with John McLaughlin and Tony Roberts? http://www.voiceprint.co.uk/catalogue.php/Release/314/ It's been too expensive (and it's quite short) when I've been looking. Mike

Or maybe what is being said by Verve is, "This is the last Montreal Tapes CD we are issuing," meaning that the Metheny show will remain unissued. They've always said, "All of these concerts were recorded by Radio Canada, and the majority will be released on compact-disc for Verve." Of course, that statement is true no matter what - ECM got the Gismonti and Verve has *already* put out 5 of the 8 shows. Mike

I believe this is not duo, but trio - with Al Foster (at least according to the notes on the Bley/Haden/Motian CD). Also - did I miss something? Has the Metheny/Haden/DeJohnette show from July 5 really been issued? I know private tapes circulate. Mike