Michael Fitzgerald

Well, that's what I do September to June. But having quality public school music education might just encourage kids to continue into college. And there's no reason why it shouldn't. We need great education at all stages of the game. Mike

Works well for science, but art is different, I think. Art isn't the same - maybe ever. It's constantly changing and jazz is such a personal, individual thing that I don't think one could ever pinpoint it with any certainty the way that one can break down matter into molecules. What goes on in the classrooms of college programs has been going on in jazz for decades. Musicians have been sharing information, people have been copying the masters, writing arrangements, rehearsing, analyzing, jamming, listening to records, meeting new players, hearing stories, discussing, etc. etc. The brilliant book "Thinking In Jazz" addresses this subject very well. It's a required text for all my private students. One can make the statement that "jazz has changed since it went to college" but where is the evidence? Are you going to do a blindfold test and pick out the schooled player from the street player? I got some doozies for you - real curve balls. Does any difference you hear truly correspond to the influence of institutional education or is something else a factor? I also wonder if the distinction being made between "jazz" and "music" studies is all that relevant. Contrary to what some folks would have you believe, jazz *is* music. There are a whole lot of principles from the "non-jazz" world that apply to jazz and studying aesthetics, or counterpoint, or learning about vertical precision in a concert band - all these transfer to the jazz area. Going back to the original post - has Berklee produced new conceptions, new styles, new pioneers? Well, no and yes. How many "pioneers" have there been in jazz? How many after 1950? Is this the fault of Berklee? Everyone in jazz didn't attend. Berklee certainly has produced MANY influential jazz musicians. http://www.berklee.edu/about/alumni.html From that list, I'd point to Gary Burton as one hell of an influential musician. Jan Hammer and Joe Zawinul, too. Sonny Sharrock and John Scofield and Mick Goodrick and Mike Stern have certainly been widely listened to and emulated. As I've said, Berklee shouldn't get all the credit for these great individuals - there isn't a course on "how to be Sonny Sharrock" - but Berklee shouldn't be ignored either. Mike

I question the allegation that "once people began to learn more jazz in school than in the nightclubs and bars, jazz began to lose some of it's fire." First, I assume you mean to say "learn jazz more in school." Secondly, there have always been stronger and weaker players. If one likes "fire" - look no further than someone like drummer Ralph Peterson, a product of a university jazz program, and currently a teacher in one. Many of the best players today attended such institutions. Many of the not-so-great did too, it's safe to say. Of the high quality players, that individuals as musically disparate as Tom Chapin and Harry Allen could come out of the *same* college jazz program is strong evidence that institutionalized jazz education isn't an albatross. Any student who thinks that he will gain EVERYTHING necessary to succeed as a professional jazz musician just by attending a college is woefully naive. No one should assume that a jazz studies program is the be-all and end-all. Ditto for any kind of education. Thirdly, since collegiate jazz education wasn't around much before the 1950s, it's misleading to compare the state of jazz pre- and post- because so many other factors come into play. Not only was how people learned jazz different, but jazz itself was different. Also, it's impossible to say whether players would have availed themselves of the resource had it existed. Plenty of top jazz musicians were alumni of college music programs - Sam Rivers, Benny Golson, Dave Brubeck, Wayne Shorter, Booker Little, Henry Grimes, the list goes on and on. I think that had courses in jazz been offered that they may well have enrolled. Certainly by the late 1950s, the Lenox School of Jazz summer program was attracting students who would go on to make a difference - Gary McFarland, Attila Zoller, Perry Robinson, David Baker, Don Ellis, J.R. Monterose, Jamey Aebersold, Ornette Coleman, Don Cherry, see my website for more. BTW, I wonder if we have the same impressions about other performing arts - how about acting schools? I watch episode after episode of "Inside the Actors' Studio" and I hear a lot of big time folks talking about their positive experiences in school. I can't chalk *all* of it up just to the fact that they are talking to acting school students. I think these actors really did benefit from their institutional educations. But they didn't learn everything there. Mike

Addressing the last part of your post - I am curious to know whether you have any experience or contact with graduates of collegiate jazz programs. Are your comments regarding what the students know or don't know based on fact or are they just suppositions? If you have had contact with such people, I think that specifics need to be addressed - which students and how many, what colleges - are we talking only of Berklee?, which teachers, when - during what years, etc. Such a huge idea as "institutional jazz education" cannot be accurately described or discussed in such general terms. This is a topic near and dear to my heart, both as one who holds degrees in jazz studies and as a music educator who has sent students off to such programs (and also discouraged such a path, btw). Mike

Well, I guess maybe you are losing it because the alto is there. It plays a minor second below the tenor on the opening A section (with the parallel voicings) and mostly a major second above the tenor on the B section. The C section is in unison. For the last note of the tune, the trumpet has a concert F, the alto has the C below that, and the tenor has the A below that. To pick out the alto part it helps to focus on articulation. Henderson is very very short on his releases and Taylor is less so. There are a couple of places where sloppiness of execution lets the alto be heard more prominently. The basic horn writing is similar to that on "Amanda" by Duke Pearson. It's a great three horn sound. Mike

I thought I just said that...... Hosea is a he, as far as I know. Mike

Absolutely there is alto on TMP and it has been listed (as played by Hosea Taylor) in discographies for years. The only other appearsances I know of for Hosea Taylor are on alto for Solomon Ilori's album "African High Life" (1963) and on bassoon for Yusef Lateef's "The Centaur and the Phoenix" (1960). Regarding the "quintet" mention, obviously Cuscuna slipped in his little note for the 1987 CD. Like other BN CDs, there are also problems with asterisks - both TMP and TC have asterisks, which theoretically mean "Does not appear on L.P. configuration," however we also see "Hosea Taylor*, bassoon" and "Herbie Hancock, piano & celeste*" listed. So it's not possible to decipher the specific personnel from the credits. I'll take this opportunity to correct another bit of misinformation from this session - that ain't no celeste. It's a harpsichord. Even considering the mixup of celeste/harpsichord, this is listed incorrectly in both the Cuscuna & Ruppli book (1st ed) and the Bruyninckx and Lord discographies. They list celeste on TMP. Wrong - Hancock plays only piano on TMP. The harpsichord only appears on TC. I don't have the 2nd edition Cuscuna & Ruppli, so I don't know if anything has been corrected there. Mike

Found another Monk & Mingus appearance - December 9, 1971 at Boston Gardens with the Giants Of Jazz (Gillespie, Stitt, Winding, Blakey). Still no tapes. Mike

Rabinowitz is a killer! The only other bassoonist worth worrying about is Ray Pizzi. I believe the only bassoonist with Sun Ra was James Jacson. That was the main axe he played with the band. But he wasn't a player like MR or RP (and they wouldn't have fit in with the Arkestra anyway). Mike

I am not aware of *any* alternative takes that are not in the Atlantic boxed set. Now, the Complete Impulse Quartet boxed set, that's a whole nother story. Yes, plenty of additional material being added to single CD issues there. There is the edited 45 rpm version of My Favorite Things, though. That came out on the 50th Anniversary single CD issue of MFT after the Atlantic set was already out. It's not anything new, just a spliced version of what we all know and love. As far as I know, they STILL have not fixed the fuckup on Equinox - the introduction is clipped by a few notes. I bought the box when it came out and was told this would be fixed - never has been. That's one downside. Mike

To keep the comparison fair, I think one would have to look at contemporary recordings, so the Vee Jay solo stuff and the Blakey, and then the Blue Note solo stuff and his work with Miles. I'm partial to the sextet Messengers, where Wayne was only one of several excellent composer/arrangers (the phenomenal Mosaic album has only ONE tune by Wayne!). The addition of the trombone allowed for creative voicings (often with the saxophone on bottom rather than trombone). Unless I am mistaken, the only tune that Wayne recorded both solo and with the Messengers was "I Didn't Know What Time It Was" (on Second Genesis and on Ugetsu). But it's not his composition anyway. If you are a fan of that Miles band, try the Blue Note solo albums - Speak No Evil, Soothsayer, All Seeing Eye, all recorded within a year of each other, just after joining Miles. Some similarities to the Miles sound in terms of harmonic sound but also very different in terms of rhythm and arrangements. Mike

Nope - that's from February 19, 1970. There is some overlap in topics - "Lee Morgan: The Last Interview" focuses on "the dilemma of jazz in America" - recognition, TV, the Jazz & People's Movement, etc. Mike

I have it here - April 27, 1972. If Dmitry will email me, I'll scan him a copy. It's only one page, done by Michael Bourne. Mike P.S. - the facing page features this mention: The Jazz Set, a weekly half-hour TV program co-produced by director Peter Anderson and Chris Albertson, the well-known writer and record producer, has hitherto been broadcast only on its station of origin., WNJT (Channel 52), a UHV outlet in Trenton, NJ. Starting in July, selected programs from the series will be seen nationwide over PBS stations on 13 consecutive Thursday nights. Shows taped so far include a wide variety of music by, among others, Roy Haynes' Hip Ensemble, Jimmy Heath's All Stars, the Jazz Contemporaries, Houston Person, Clifford Jordan with singers DeeDee Bridgewater and Sheila Jordan, Rashied Ali, Sam Wooding, Joe Lee Wilson, Bobby Brown, Barry Miles, Randy Weston, Kenny Davern, Joe McPhee and Lonnie Smith. On a few of the shows, Dan Morgenstern subbed for Albertson as host and co-producer. CA - too bad you couldn't get some names for the show! Are these skeletons in your closet as well?

But of course, sex sells and smarts don't. One can think of hundreds of examples in media, politics, etc. Or perhaps more precisely, sex sells more than smarts do. As for breakup album titles, I'll go with: Goodbye Krall World. Mike

Agree with Alexander. My only hope is that being married to Costello will force DK out of the public eye as it apparently did for CO. Mike

Just checked NYT microfilm and Sunday 8/13/78 p. D28 has the following: George Russell Big Band - a superb group playing the distinctive compositions of Russell, a composer who is both exploratory and communicative. Village Vanguard, 178 Seventh Ave. South, Tues-next Sun. So - the band WAS at the Vanguard during the time of the 8/16 recording date. BTW, apparently there was a newspaper strike around this time so it is difficult to get information from about 8/10 on. I think the Sunday stuff had already been printed before the strike. Mike

Highly unlikely - I have references to Vanguard gigs as follows: Eddie Vinson - 1978.08.29 - 1979.09.03 Sonny Fortune - thru 1978.10.08 Sam Jones/Tom Harrell Big Band - 2 Mondays (1978.10.09, 1978.10.16) Randy Weston - 1978.10.10 - 1978.10.15 Bobby Hutcherson - 1978.10.17 - 1978.10.22 Bill Evans - 1978.10.24 - 1978.10.29 Heath Brothers - 1978.10.31 - 1978.11.05 Woody Shaw - 1978.11.07 - 1978.11.12 Slide Hampton - 1978.11.14 - 1978.11.19 If you have NYT microfilm, try the Friday paper instead of the Sunday. That's where the clubs advertise (at least for the past few decades). Mike

Organ has definitely been heard at the Vanguard, off the top of my head I know Tony Williams played there with Larry Young & John McLaughlin. It was reviewed in Down Beat. And John Abercrombie has gigged there with his organ trio. I'll see if I can pinpoint anything on the 1978 date through some periodical research. It was just a couple of weeks after Woody Shaw recorded there. Yes, Thad & Mel were playing Mondays at that time. From Coda #162 (dated August 1, 1978 - but that's not like a newspaper date) "The recent retrospective of his work at the Village Vanguard is rather late in coming - in actuality, too late." Down Beat June 15, 1978 has an upcoming listing for George Russell Big Band at the Vanguard "thru 6/4" - so it seems unlikely that they played there two months later. This is not absolute information, but it does start to sway the balance against the 8/16/78 album being recorded live at the Vanguard. I'll try to follow up with the definitive word - probably need to check newspapers. Mike

Lord just says New York, but that doesn't mean anything. Sometimes it says New York for stuff recorded at Van Gelder's. Are they saying that the *setlist* is a simulation - i.e., it's not a straight-through first-to-last recording, but with tunes taken from various sets and reconstructed? Is there no mention of a recording studio? The Thad/Mel/Vanguard band recorded about six live things there and the Slide Hampton Jazzmasters band was 12 pieces, pretty big. Also the Mulligan Concert Jazz Band (13). Recording a large ensemble can be as simple as having a pair of microphones on a single stand. Mike

No, this is NOT Walter Gilbert Fuller (1920-1994), this is Walter Fuller (1910-2003) So only the original post in this thread relates to the person in question. Mike

Another one for the time machine is the evening immortalized as "A Night At Tony's" by Gigi Gryce who appeared in Brooklyn with "the four M's" - Miles, Monk, Mingus, and Max. Any skepticism about this can be dispelled by looking at the photos in the latest edition of the Art Taylor "Notes and Tones" book. Also, Henri Renaud was in the audience for it and mentioned it in a French magazine at the time. The gig was March 20-21, 1954 at Tony's Club Grandean. I don't know if it belongs in the "looks good on paper" category or not, but I would love to have a tape. Of course, another meeting by Mingus and Monk is in the Great Day in Harlem photo. Mike

David - So you can confirm that Carl Brown was a real guy and not a pseudonym for Charlie Haden, as suggested by some here: http://www.organissimo.org/forum/index.php...7&hl=carl+brown Mike

Apparently Miles was called in to replace Jaki Byard. And reportedly Reggie Workman on bass - does that fit with your recollection? Mike

The issue had to have been published much later than January 1958. The picture was taken on August 13, 1958. I think it was January 1959. Charlie Graham has a book called "The Great Jazz Day" related to the photo. I don't own it and I'm not sure whether it reprints the Esquire article. Mike

But Money Jungle isn't a Blue Note session. Speaking post-1954: Audio-Video Studios was used for Thad Jones and Kenny Burrell sessions in 1956. Manhattan Towers was used for quite a bit in 1957-58 - several Jimmy Smiths in addition to the Blakeys (Holiday for Skins too). Other European sessions - Dexter Gordon "One Flight Up," Hank Mobley "The Flip." Mike