AllenLowe

haven't been there in years - I'm still pining for the fjords -

he was a jazz fan - used to come into Sandy's Jazz Revival in Beverly in the middle '70s (I think I remember him coming to see Chet Baker).

Jose Iturbi.

well, I know it's a horn, but he's GOTTA listen to Bird - post McShann. Parker's Mood, of course, etc.

news to me - could be true. Don't know - he seems to be a pretty good musician.

"stupid question maybe, but: which school/players are the ones Harris considers as not playing correctly in this context? " many many many - late Trane, Ornette, Eric Dolphy, anything "out;" piano-wise, anything post-Tyner. Post 1966 Miles. Etc. I love Barry personally, but he is VERY (or used to be, probably still is) conservative on these things. If it ain't bebop, it ain't right. Liked Jaki Byard, with reservations. (also did not like O.P., but for different reasons).

thanks, interesting story, if ultimately speculative - and Greco was a terrific pianist, surprisingly Bud Powell-ish on the B.G. sextet things with Wardell.

interestingly, he is the only player of that school that I ever heard Barry Harris talk well of (Barry has a pretty strict personal definition of the way to play correctly).

sorry to hear that. Great player, a little schematic for my taste, but taught a lot of people and did some great work.

yes, I am feeling very mellow these days. I forgive everyone. Except Couw.

I remember the Washington Mortarium in 1969 or 70 - I was in the press area being hounded by Timothy Leary and Abbie Hoffman, both tripping like mad, while on stage were Pete Seeger and Mitch Miller singing "Give Peace a Chance. Could only happen in the Sixties. (true story)

it's ok, I take the abuse so that others may live their lives in peace and contentment. .

weird thing is, I hate jazz, too. Who doesn't?

donz, don't worry about it. Actually, I'm just glad when the board's hostility is directed at someone other than me.

allright lets go a little further - let's face it, half the world of jazz piano probably studied Bach in their youth - so find me another example of the use of this phraseology. in the absence of such an example, I would surmise that we could surmise that everyone else should surmise that the two pianists who have played such - no, the three, if we add Mosca - are related in their use of prior models - and what they have most is common is Lenny, mean and surly as he was.

no, no - I am not disagreeing that Lenny was steeped in Bach - only that if one pianist uses a specific device, and another, obviously influenced by that prior pianist, uses the same device LATER - in the same way in the service of the same type of music - well, than, the most obvious conclusion is that it is related to that musical connection between the two - and in this case I see a DEEP connection. And no other pianist have I heard use that phrase except Lenny (and also Sal Mosca, so I figure he ALSO got it from Bach since he and Lennie had no association) - allright, enough sarcasm sorry - but further proof are the words of a pianist I knew who studied under Mosca and who described that specific device (revolving around a diminished arpeggio) to me as one taught by Mosca a la Lenny.

this reminds me of an old sociology argument - if you have a group that comes MOST SPECIFICALLY from another tradition (in this case Herbie out of jazz piano) and they exhibit a trait that can be recognized in that tradition, the strongest indicator is that they are reflecting the influence of that tradition. So here's Herbie - playing a phrase that refers to one of Lennie Tristano's FAVORITE harmonic gestures - and where do we look? Bach? No. The classical tradition? No. No no no no no no no no no TRISTANO. saying that this instance is from Bach is the equivalent, in sociology terms again, of those people who insisted the blues, because it has call and response which is heard in the great white Protestant tradition, is a White Protestant music. doesn't work. than and now.Unless Herbie is a White Protestant.

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right, so said-eth I. And one does not borrow that closely from another without pledging some prior and deep allegiance.

well, I caught a lot of shit recently for positing that Lennie Tristano was a prime influence on Herbie Hancock. So I'm watching the Steve Allen Show clip of Miles doing Kind of Blue from 1964; some way through Herbie's solo, what does he do? A minute or so of pure Tristano derivatives (it occurs, on the clip I watched, at 7:39) based on a classic Lennie phrase device. Take that you yahoos, and never question the great Allini's musical judgment ever again. I forgive you, tempted as I am to smote you all (or I might say: Stryker 3, you're out) -

terrible film, nice music, bad poet (Bukowski) - I kept wanting to stick my hand in that twirling Leslie.

Fripp/Eno - 2 CDs, mint. $8 plus shipping. African Music in Britain. Mint. $6.50 plus shipping paypal: alowe5@maine.rr.com

CD in mint shape. $7 plus shipping. My paypal is alowe5@maine.rr.com

Pete Brown/Joe Turner. Jimmy Witherspoon. Joe Williams/Count Basie small group stuff.

Xanadu put out an LP with Haynes on it, as I recall - it might have been with Walter Bishop, I'm not sure.