AllenLowe

well, I hate to let this thread die, when there's so much money at stake -

just to add, I actually don't think Byas sounds that modern on those early Dizzy Recordings - he plays great, but is clearly from another generation - the tenor in those years is largely caught as an in-between instrument stylistically, thinking also early Gene Ammons with Dizzy's big band. Than there's Don Lanphere with Fats Navarro, more purely modern sides (maybe 1948) - and at this point we have Moody and Sonny R. - hey other old guys out there, are there any other early modern tenors I'm missing (also maybe Ray Abrams) -

well, I think you're reversing cause and effect - I think the Byas we're hearing in 1944-1946 is, at this stage, reacting to the boppers - hence the slight modernization of his sound. Lucky Thompson also first recorded early 40s (I think, or maybe 1939), with Jonah Jones (Commordore I think) and he is also, at this point, primarily a swing tenor, but than a few years later is changed by the modernists - but neither was, out of the gate, a modernist. If we had to pick one, I would say Dexter Gordon, though (and I don't want to start a separate fire storm here) I never found his playing very compelling at any period - given the Savoy recordings, maybe the first bebop tenor player was Bird -

well, I really would not call him a bebopper at this time, but someone who had effected and was effected by beboppers - better to look to Moody or Dexter Gordon or Sonny R. for early beboppers. Byas's tone and rhythm and associations (and repertoire) really hold him apart. And by the way I don't think that Byas/Webster album is really all that good. Webster sounds tired and Byas sounds tense -

I hope all this new publicity doesn't go to his head -

Actually it's not the first time; he used to co-host a children's show, Saturday mornings, with his mother Moms Mobley -

HANK AARON HANK THOMPSON HANK KINGSLEY HANK HANK HANK HANK HANKERHANK WILLIAMS, HANK WILLIAMS JR. HANK WILLIAMS III I GOT A HANKERING FOR HANK HANKHANKS HANDKERCHIEF HANKIETOM HANKSHANKS TOMTOM HANKS HANKSTOMTHEHANKS ARE COMINGTHE HANKSARECOMING THE HANKSARECOMINGHANKENSACK

well, yes, if by second chair you mean everyone after Hawkins -

I think that Max's problem was not just substance abuse, thoug I'm sure that made it worse - as I believe he was clean when he was married to Lincoln -

look, Max has a real history, and he cleaned himself up considerably after the 1940s-1950s (a quote from a pianist I know: "when you were walking down the street and you saw Max coming, you crossed the street.") Still, I think we jazz people tend to overlook some of this stuff, and I don't think that's right. And yes, he did beat up Abby Lincoln.

I will say, respectfully, that to consign Don Byas to "second chair" is utter nonsense - he is one of the GIANTS of the tenor, and you are looking at the wrong period to realize this. Listen to the Savoy's from middle 1940s - some with Max Roach. Amazing stuff, influenced Sonny Rollins. Harmoncally very advanced, predicting bebop clearly. The 1960s stuff is interesting, but has an odd tension that is never really resolved - I think his problem was that like a lot of ageing musicians, he was worried about keeping up with the times and was trying to change his whole rhythmic approach. I even recall remarks he made about Coltrane which indicated a clear jealously, based on the fact that, as he knew, Coltrane was very influenced by him, as were hundreds of tenor players -

fantastic - it was quite interesting, Byas in his last period trying to play with less vibrato and more boppishly - oddly forced, but still fascinating music -

sorry, I know this makes me sound like a troll, but the only way I can listen to Oscar Peterson is to drink heavily - all right, please, just ignore me and get on with this O.P. thread -

I have great respect for Max musically, tempered, however, by the fact that he is another jazz/woman beater - if you don't believe me, ask Abby Lincoln. This stuff has been swept under the rug too much when it comes to jazz musicians (thinking also about Miles and Ben Webster) -

His adaptation of Enemy of the People was a complete perversion and misunderstanding of Ibsen - I like the Crucible, but it was based on a fundamentally inept parallel with the McCarthy era - as Eric Bentley has pointed out, while there were, indeed, no witches in Salem, there were Communists in the US. Which is not, before you jump to any conclusions, a justification of McCarthyism - it is just to point out that Miller did not have the vision to come up with an allegory that made actual sense. On the other hand it is his best play. Death of a Salesman has power, but it is, finally, a cloying domestic drama. After the Fall, as I said, is a mess and intellectually dishonest, poorly written and full of post-Marilyn apology and rationale. There are some other bad ones: View from the Bridge, The Price (which does have some good writing), Incident at Vichy. He also wrote some appallingly bad short stories. His ouvre is not a distinguished one.

it's an old shoe-business saying -

we rest our case -

Digital processing can sometimes be transparent, other times apparent - I would listen for artifacts or dullness or pumping -

no, only dishonest profit - but hey, if the shoe fits -

the way he told me, he just rode it out in embarassed silence -

I don't have experience with that particular program, but I will say I have yet to hear a program where normalizing and using digital means to control peaks works very well - the problem is that the program just looks at the wave form and doesn't really hear it. The best way, in my opinion, is just to do the whole thing by ear -

I actually see something a little bit different, and I've seen it on other boards - certain posts get ignored because the people having the initial discussion are a little bit cliquish and think that their private conversation has been interuupted -

guys, it hanppend - live with it. We're all wrong sometimes (except me on this thread) -

Jones told me this story in the late 1970s - so there goes that theory. And Miller was quite well-known in America cultural circles. So I don't doubt he witnessed this -

well, Chris, I've been having senior moments since I was about 12 - the Popeye joke had to do about where he stuck a certain appendage whenver it got rusty -