Peter A

Never seen or heard it. I read somewhere that Bill Davis was a pianoplayer from Detroit who played with Howard McGhee during the 40's. Would he be the same Bill Davis who played piano on Kenny Burrel's Soul Call?

Yes, but why would Riverside have taken the trouble to press different, thinner LP's for the European market? Also: safety-lip pressings are probably pressed on newer equipment than the "flat edge" ones. But the covers for these later pressings are the same as the "originals". As for the sound: I have safetly-lip versions of Jazz Lab and Monk's Brilliant Corners which do not sound incredible. On the other hand my "flat edge" white label pressings of New Jazz Conceptions (12-223) and Kenny Drew Trio (12-224) sound amazing!

That's why one should always ask questions to the seller. It's not possible to determine a first pressing only by looking at the label (e.g. white Riverside label or Prestige label with NY address), but also to look at the disc characteristics. Some big selling dics (e.g. Miles Davis) have been repressed w/the Prestige NY label, but only the first pressing (A stampers) has no safety lip. A lot of the early Riverside LP's (w/white label) you see in Europe have a safety lip as well and GB patent nrs stamped into the vinyl. These are IMO Europeas pressings - the American pressings are a lot heavier and have no safetly lip (and do sound better). Life is not always easy for jazz record collectors!

Welcome to the Organissimo Forum! I agree with you that, apart from original Blue Note LP's, many nice originals can be found. On the other hand, some of the records you mention have aren't really cheapo's either. For instance the Atlantic of Tony Fruscella has always been rare (and expensive). The same counts for the Sonny Criss LP's on Imperial. The Epic's, the Rocky Boyd LP and Dave Bailey LP on Jazzline have indeed become very expensive lately. Agree with the LP's of Sleet and Thomas on Jazzland; they are great! Regards, Peter

I compared three versions: the K2, the SACD en the original vinyl (purple New Jazz label). The K2 and the SACD sound a bit similar, perhaps the bass on the SACD is slightly more defined (although I played the SACD on a "normal" CD player). IMO the vinyl version is the winner of the three. On the LP the solo instruments (tenor; guitar) sound louder than the rest of the band (as it should), while on the CD's the drums (cymbals!) and bass are also quite prominent. To my ears the vinyl version has a more natural sound.

Perhaps this one? Lonnie Smith Quintet Dave Hubbard (ts) Ronnie Cuber (bars) Lonnie Smith (org) Larry McGee (g) Marion Booker (d) Rudy Van Gelder Studio, Englewood Cliffs, NJ, December 19, 1969 5713 Twenty-Five Miles Blue Note rejected 5714 Seven Steps to Heaven - 5715 Psychedelic Pi - 5716 Original Latin Blues

April 21, 1967: McCoy Tyner Quartet Joe Henderson (ts) McCoy Tyner (p) Ron Carter (b) Elvin Jones (d) Rudy Van Gelder Studio, Englewood Cliffs, NJ, April 21, 1967 1873 tk.1 Contemplation Blue Note BLP 4264 1874 tk.6 Passion Dance - 1875 tk.7 Blues on the Corner - 1876 tk.12 Four by Five - 1877 tk.18 Search for Peace - * McCoy Tyner - The Real McCoy (Blue Note BLP 4264)

That's funny indeed! And a busy day for Rudy too. I wonder which session was first... Brother Jack McDuff Sextet Harold Vick (ts) Eric Dixon (ts, fl) Brother Jack McDuff (org) Kenny Burrell (g) Joe Dukes (d) Ray Barretto (cga) Rudy Van Gelder Studio, Englewood Cliffs, NJ, January 8, 1963 3716 Somethin' Slick! Prestige 45-246, PRLP 7265, PR 7481, PRCD 24131-2 3717 How High the Moon Prestige PRLP 7265, PRCD 24131-2 3718 Shaky Prestige PR 7666, PRCD 24131-2 3719 Love Walked In Prestige PR 7347, PRCD 24131-2 3720 Easy Livin' unissued 3721 It's a Wonderful World Prestige PRLP 7265, PR 7596, PRCD 24131-2 3722 Smut Prestige PRLP 7265, PRCD 24131-2 3723 Our Miss Brooks - * Brother Jack McDuff - Somethin' Slick! (Prestige PRLP 7265) * Brother Jack McDuff's Greatest Hits (Prestige PR 7481) * Brother Jack McDuff - Steppin' Out (Prestige PR 7666) * Kenny Burrell - Crash! (Prestige PR 7347) * Brother Jack McDuff Plays for Beautiful People (Prestige PR 7596) * Kenny Burrell/Jack McDuff - Crash! (Prestige PRCD 24131-2) * Jack McDuff - Somethin' Slick c/w Screamin' (Prestige 45-246) Kenny Burrell Quintet Stanley Turrentine (ts -1/5) Kenny Burrell (g) Major Holley Jr. (b -1/8) Bill English (d -1/8) Ray Barretto (cga -1/4,6,7) Rudy Van Gelder Studio, Englewood Cliffs, NJ, January 8, 1963 1. tk.10 Kenny's Sound Blue Note CDP 7 46399-2 2. tk.14 Saturday Night Blues Blue Note BLP 4123 3. tk.16 Wavy Gravy Blue Note 45-1886, BLP 4123 4. tk.23 Chitlins Con Carne Blue Note 45-1885, BLP 4123, BST 89904, BST2 84429 5. tk.28 Mule Blue Note BLP 4123 6. tk.31 Midnight Blue - 7. tk.35 K Twist Blue Note CDP 7 46399-2 8. tk.44 Gee Baby, Ain't I Good to You Blue Note BLP 4123 9. tk.49 Soul Lament - * Kenny Burrell - Midnight Blue (Blue Note BLP 4123, CDP 7 46399-2) * Various Artists - Blue Note's Three Decades of Jazz 1959-1969 (Blue Note BST 89904) = Various Artists - Decades of Jazz, Vol. 3 (Blue Note BN-LA 160-G2) * Various Artists - The Best of Blue Note, Vol. 1 (Blue Note BST2 84429) * Kenny Burrell - Wavy Gravy, Pt. 1&2 (Blue Note 45-1886) * Kenny Burrell - Chitlins Con Carne, Pt. 1&2 (Blue Note 45-1885)

So there is no piano either on K Twist? Now I understand your confusion. Perhaps Blumenthal didn't listen to the extra track which was added to the RVG of Midnight Blue and just presumed all the mentioned tracks from the Freedom session were played with the complete lineup (incl. Hancock). Edit: problem solved - just read Kyo's latest post.

The Midnight Blue session was recorded on January 8, 1963 at RvG Studio, Englewood Cliffs, NJ. "K Twist" belongs to a session (with 4 other tracks) which was recorded at RVG Studio on October 22, 1964. It seems Blumenthal's claim is correct. Peter

I think Rooster meant to ask: which of all the unissued sessions were meant to be released at the time (and were assigned a catalogue number at the time). Here is a list: 1592 Sonny Clark Quintets 4052 Tina Brooks - Back To The Tracks 4065 Stanley Turrentine - Coming Your Way 4095 Leo Parker - Rollin' With Leo 4103 Ike Quebec - Congo Lament (later released as Easy Living) 4116 The Jackie McLean Quintet 4122 Stanley Turrentine - Jubilee Shout 4134 Horace Parlan - Happy Frame Of Mind 4135 Freddie Hubbard - Here To Stay 4142 Blue Mitchell - Step Lightly 4143 "Big" John Patton - Blue John 4210 Ornette Coleman - Town Hall Concert I 4211 Ornette Coleman - Town Hall Concert II 4223 Jackie McLean - Jacknife 4233 Andrew Hill - ? 4234 Stanley Turrentine - later released as "In Memory Of" (LT 1037) 4236 Jackie McLean - High Frequency 4241 Hank Mobley - Slice Of The Top 4254 Lou Donaldson - Lush Life 4261 Sam Rivers - Dimensions & Extensions 4316 Frank Foster - ? 4366 "Big" John Patton - Memphis To New York 4367 Hank Mobley - Thinking Of Home 4371 Lonnie Smith - ? 4381 Lee Morgan - same (released later as 4901)

It even got as far as the cover art for 'Back To The Tracks' appearing on W61st inner sleeves, I believe. I'll check later but I'm sure I've seen this one. Pretty sure the cover art for "Blue John" also appeared on an inner sleeve or two - back in the day. (I remember the linernotes mentioning this - although I'm away from my copy at the moment, otherwise I'd check personally.) If I remember well the covers for Rollin' with Leo and Coming Your Way were also printed on one of these inner sleeves. I will check it when I'm home.

Actually a couple of weeks ago a test pressing of "A Happy Frame Of Mind" - no cover, white labels with 'Plastylite' stamp, the name, title and original number (BST-84134) written on it - was sold on eBay. Unfortunately I was on holiday at the time so I was not able to bid on it. Peter

It certainly does exist, and...Hank plays on it! I think it is reissued on CD (Japanese) en vinyl (180 grs, don't know which company). The Cool Voice of Rita Reys With The Jazz Messengers and the Wessel Ilcken Combo CD: Philips PHCE-4140 (Japan); LP: Columbia 904 (US) 1955 1. I Cried for You (Arnheim, Freed) 2. You’d Be So Nice to Come Home To (Porter) 3. My One, Only Love (Mellin, Wood) 4. That Old Black Magic (Mercer) 5. Spring Will Be a Little Late This Year (Loesser) 6. Taking a Chance on Love (Duke, Fetter) 7. It’s Alright with Me (Porter) 8. Gone with the Wind (Magdison, Wrubel) 9. My Funny Valentine (Rodgers, Hart) 10. But Not for Me (Gershwins) 11. I Should Care (Cahn, Stordahl, Weston) 12. There Will Never Be Another You (Gordon, Warren)

Communis opinio under collectors is that, generally speaking, original Blue Note pressings of the end of the 50's - beginning of the 60's do sound better than later pressings. However, this does not neccesarily mean that ALL deep groove pressings sound better than non-dg pressings or that there is no difference between dg pressings. For instance, I have two deep groove pressings of Something Else by Cannonball Adderley (BN 1595), one pressed on very thick vinyl, with the 47 W address on the label without "Inc" and the trademark and the other with a slightly later label (with Inc and trademark). The first, which I regard as "original" pressing, sounds remarkably better than the second one (very clear sonics and deep bass). As Alan pointed out, at some point the DG stampers or whatever equipment was used that caused the deep groove, was fased out for first pressings. However, later pressings of non-dg titles may reoccur with dg on one or both sides. In THESE cases the DG pressings obviously do not sound beter than their non-dg predecessors. Pffff, not a very easy subject to explain. I hope Chuck won't become even more disgusted...

I really don't understand why "it drives you nuts" if someone mentions he/she played a deep groove Blue Note LP. Vinyl collector love discussing these kind of things, why don't you just ignore these discussions if they bother you so much...

Some additions: Odell Brown - Raising The Roof (Cadet) Shirley Scott - One For Me (Strata East) Mike Carr & Tony Crombie Duo - Hammond Under Pressure (Columbia)

Well, yesterday I played a couple of the later Atlantic LP's. I am afraid "Money in the Pocket" is not a very good sounding record. Drums sound like cardboard boxes and there is almost no bass, although the horns sound loud and clear. But the music is quite good; two interesting line-ups, one featuring Blue Mitchell and Clifford Jordan, the other Blue Mitchell, Joe Henderson and Pepper Adams. That really can't go wrong! Also two trio tracks and one solo piano track. Sound quality is a bit comparable to the two Duke Pearson records you mentioned from the same period. Acually the Pearson LP's sound a bit better. Inspired by your remark I also played the Chick Corea Vortex album, which actually sounds MUCH better than the Atlantic's! Regards, Peter

Indeed, generally speaking Atlantic albums do not sound great. However, even for the later titles I prefer the mono issues, "fold down" or not. I remember having a stereo issue of "The Grass is Greener"' by Grasella Oliphant (w/Patton and Green) which also had the strong stereo separation you are referring to. Later I found a mono issue which actually does sound quite good. I also have a mono copy of the Zawinul record, if you want more info on the sound quality I can give it a spin. Peter

In 2004 a NM/NM copy sold for $3050 on eBay: Jazz collector prices 2004 I'm curious for which price it wil sell in 2008...

Just checked my LP and it looks early Liberty with 'Van Gelder' and no ear, mono copy. 1966 inner sleeve so seems to line up with the above. In fact "real" BN copies of this title - meaning being manufactured at the Plastylite pressing plant - do not (seem to) exist; the first copies date from the "Liberty-era". What might be confusing though, is that these first pressings still have Blue Note USA - and not Liberty - labels (but no ear). This is not unique for this title, as Blue Note kept using older labels - sometimes even w/Lexington address - during the Liberty era. Anyway, Liberty or not, the vinyl edition of Dippin' does sound great!

I bought a second hand vinyl copy of that record a couple of months ago, because of the presence of KD. Actually I found it a bit dissapointing, mainly because of the poor recording quality and the spare soloing of KD. Perhaps I will give it another spin tonight. Peter

If you like "Happy Girl", you will certainly like "Hip Walk", also on the SABA/MPS label. It's a great session, also with Carmell Jones (tp), Francy Boland (p), Jimmy Woode (b) and Kenny Clarke (ds). It is (or was?) available on CD (together with Happy Girl) but also on a replica of the original vinyl issue (which is pretty expensive). Slightly more modern (sometimes w/electric bass) but also very good are Davis' albums on the Segué label, "Makatuka" (1970) and "The 6th Sense In The 11th House" (1972). I think these are only avalaible on vinyl, but are not too difficult (or expensive) to find. Here is a website with a discography: Nathan Davis discography

If you want to make quick bucks, you might consider selling the collection on a record fair. Original Blue Notes are obviously much wanted by record collectors. The rarer items will probably fetch (much) higher prices on eBay, but it takes a lot of work to describe each item properly, make pictures (preferably front and back of the jacket and both labels) and to grade the vinyl very seriously. Especially with the expensive items, collectors are very picky! Are you by any chance situated in Holland? If you are, I will be happy to advise you about prices and everything (if I could get a first pick ) Regards, Peter