thedwork

thanks again. if you say this story is "...already known by nearly everybody who would ever read her book," then i take your word for it. and if that anecdote doesn't seem out of the ordinary to you, you've got an awesomely exciting life going! be careful out there and yeah, i've seen that Lennon footage.

that looks like it could be a good read. but this: "My name is Raven. I brought you a present," this stranger announced, handing to Zappa a transparent bag, apparently filled with blood, before pointing a revolver at his chest. Calmly, Zappa cajoled and manipulated Raven into walking with him, and numerous spectators, including Zappa's 24-year-old English secretary, to a nearby lake. He then persuaded everyone present to start throwing things into the water, including Raven, who threw in his gun. ... thats's kinda odd. are you all aware of this story? i've read barry miles's biography and i don't recall this being mentioned. an insanely spectacular event like this, that happens to one of the most celebrated and famous american musicians of the 20th century, with "many spectators" present, seems like it would be mentioned in that excellent biography. it seems it would also become a well-known tale. if you all could, lemme know if i just happened to miss this story for some reason or if this insane story is just out now for the first time... This was mentioned in Zappa's own Real Frank Zappa Book. thanks "organissimo member w/ symbol thingie i can't type." while i haven't read that "autobiography," i've heard it's not very reliable. and since that seems to be the only other source, i'm still skeptical.

that looks like it could be a good read. but this: "My name is Raven. I brought you a present," this stranger announced, handing to Zappa a transparent bag, apparently filled with blood, before pointing a revolver at his chest. Calmly, Zappa cajoled and manipulated Raven into walking with him, and numerous spectators, including Zappa's 24-year-old English secretary, to a nearby lake. He then persuaded everyone present to start throwing things into the water, including Raven, who threw in his gun. ... thats's kinda odd. are you all aware of this story? i've read barry miles's biography and i don't recall this being mentioned. an insanely spectacular event like this, that happens to one of the most celebrated and famous american musicians of the 20th century, with "many spectators" present, seems like it would be mentioned in that excellent biography. it seems it would also become a well-known tale. if you all could, lemme know if i just happened to miss this story for some reason or if this insane story is just out now for the first time...

nobody plays more horn than Wess. Nobody. truly doesn't get any better than him at his best. i was able to see/hear him for a full week long engagement about 10 years ago. beautiful player and seemed to me like a genuinely terrific person. i wish i could be there. all the best to Frank Wess.

why?

i have a vague memory of playing one quite a long time ago and not being impressed w/ either feel or tone; but i also remember them being quite affordable. hopefully others who have more experience w/ seagull guitars can help out w/ their experiences are you considering getting one?

now that is a perfect example of why, despite all the problems, Hitchens was worth reading. it made me laugh out loud as well head man absolutely hilarious

dang! you beat me to it alexander gnhrtg - if something happens and alexander can't get this, i'm next in line

good article.

a sad "Hello & Goodbye" to a master composer. that one remains my favorite and always puts a smile on my face. amazing...

this is about exactly how i feel about Hitch. he made me laugh out loud in agreement as often as he made me recoil in disgust - but very often w/ genuine wit. whether i agreed w/ him or not, i seemed to always have been glad to listen to/read him. he'll be missed...

thanks face of the bass. accepted. you are one of the rare few i've seen on internet forums to sincerely apologize after writing something outta line. and yours, in this thread, wasn't even really that bad comparatively. as a matter of fact, i've had multiple private messages sent to me here by one poster that were almost all filled w/ rude, invective name-calling. the moderators had to take care of it. it was ugly and he never apologized. it's above him. instead of the borderline mentally unstable, rude private messaging tactic, he's now taken to occasionally shadowing me on certain threads to insult my posts. sad yet fascinating obsession. come to think of it, writing it up would make for a good sister article to my upcoming Scientific American piece on music thread devolution...

i wouldn't necessarily say that. but i would say this thread has now become officially boring and is already well into the category of jazz music forum threads that devolve into meaningless pontificating on what usually turn out to be one (or all) of the following: is marketing/money necessary to make art? is jazz black music? can white people play jazz? does wynton suck ass (and why/how)? how do you define swing (and could bill evans swing)? can/should you be able to separate an artist's personal behavior from his music/art? can pop music elements be used in jazz forms/musics? and if so, is jazz a higher artform than blah blah blah... all of these "topics of discussion" are sooooooooooooooooo played. for me personally, they're boring before they've begun. been there, done that. it's like going back to high school. vomit. Payton seems to be quite an adolescent asshole. maybe he'll grow up soon. he's also an excellent trumpet player. afaic, that's all there is here. Yes, it's much better to restrict discussion topics to the numbering system deployed by Mosaic for their limited edition box sets. That's always more enlightening and entertaining. Seriously, instead of divebombing into a thread and crapping all over the discussion, why don't people who are not interested in what is being discussed simply stop reading it? thank you, face of the bass, for pointing out an essential element i had inadvertently left out of my salient analysis of current internet forum trends in post-cold war U.S.A.: in threads like these (see my post above which facebass was kind enough to repost), you can almost always count on folks to chime in and say they think the thread has become a useless repetition of jive 'debates' that have come and gone endlessly in the past which never cast any real illumination on the 'subjects' being pontificated on. and then, like clockwork, you can count on someone to counter by asking said person to leave the thread if they don't like it. this request is as meaningless and unconstructive as the thread itself. look for my full report in an upcoming issue of Scientific American. big beat steve will be referenced for his 'smooth jazz' contribution... Well, what I found most interesting about your laundry list of boring topics inevitably beaten to death in jazz forums is that none of them described what we have been talking about in this thread. Which makes me wonder what kind of special asshole it takes to come into a thread and complain about how stupid such threads are without having made any actual contribution to the topic at hand, knowing that this will annoy people who are actually getting something out of the thread. If you come into a thread and loudly tell everyone how dumb and pointless the discussion is, expect to be challenged. you're funny. i was the first person to comment/post in this thread. way to go man. and look who's the one who feels it necessary to resort to personal attacks/name-calling when he feels "challenged." again - you're funny.

i wouldn't necessarily say that. but i would say this thread has now become officially boring and is already well into the category of jazz music forum threads that devolve into meaningless pontificating on what usually turn out to be one (or all) of the following: is marketing/money necessary to make art? is jazz black music? can white people play jazz? does wynton suck ass (and why/how)? how do you define swing (and could bill evans swing)? can/should you be able to separate an artist's personal behavior from his music/art? can pop music elements be used in jazz forms/musics? and if so, is jazz a higher artform than blah blah blah... all of these "topics of discussion" are sooooooooooooooooo played. for me personally, they're boring before they've begun. been there, done that. it's like going back to high school. vomit. Payton seems to be quite an adolescent asshole. maybe he'll grow up soon. he's also an excellent trumpet player. afaic, that's all there is here. Yes, it's much better to restrict discussion topics to the numbering system deployed by Mosaic for their limited edition box sets. That's always more enlightening and entertaining. Seriously, instead of divebombing into a thread and crapping all over the discussion, why don't people who are not interested in what is being discussed simply stop reading it? thank you, face of the bass, for pointing out an essential element i had inadvertently left out of my salient analysis of current internet forum trends in post-cold war U.S.A.: in threads like these (see my post above which facebass was kind enough to repost), you can almost always count on folks to chime in and say they think the thread has become a useless repetition of jive 'debates' that have come and gone endlessly in the past which never cast any real illumination on the 'subjects' being pontificated on. and then, like clockwork, you can count on someone to counter by asking said person to leave the thread if they don't like it. this request is as meaningless and unconstructive as the thread itself. look for my full report in an upcoming issue of Scientific American. big beat steve will be referenced for his 'smooth jazz' contribution...

i wouldn't necessarily say that. but i would say this thread has now become officially boring and is already well into the category of jazz music forum threads that devolve into meaningless pontificating on what usually turn out to be one (or all) of the following: is marketing/money necessary to make art? is jazz black music? can white people play jazz? does wynton suck ass (and why/how)? how do you define swing (and could bill evans swing)? can/should you be able to separate an artist's personal behavior from his music/art? can pop music elements be used in jazz forms/musics? and if so, is jazz a higher artform than blah blah blah... all of these "topics of discussion" are sooooooooooooooooo played. for me personally, they're boring before they've begun. been there, done that. it's like going back to high school. vomit. Payton seems to be quite an adolescent asshole. maybe he'll grow up soon. he's also an excellent trumpet player. afaic, that's all there is here.

BINGO!!! we have a winner...

Okay, I take back all the stuff I said before. Payton is simply a jackass. :rofl:

ok. imo, that's wayyyyyyyy worse than the jive, annoyingly adolescent, "poetic" rant that was referenced in the opening post of this thread. he's lost a possible supporter because of it for sure. too bad - good player. but because there are more than enough great musicians in the world that i can get behind, who also seem to be perfectly fine people, i do my best to not waste my time/money/energy supporting assholes if i can avoid it. always a bummer when that happens. oh well...

Getting Better (Lennon/McCartney) Better Git It In Your Soul (Mingus) You Better You Bet (Townsend) Even Better Than The Real Thing (U2) You Better Know It (Simone version) Next Word: EAT

i don't wonder about it much. i assume it is, and that was the first thing i wrote in my post above

ironically, this seems kinda like marketing to me. a cry for attention. an adolescent, if impassioned, rant against... not ranting? so many annoying problems/contradictions in his little piece that i had to grudgingly force myself to simply get through it. imo, however well-intentioned, these types of over-the-top/mediocrely-written rants do no good toward creating the change the writer has in mind. however undefined that change is in his/their minds. what is he even really talking about? despite its tough-guy pose, it's unfortunately just so much fluff... Payton is a very good trumpet player. like many artists, he should stick to his craft and, for the most part, leave words to others who work better w/ them. he'd have done better to write something more in the form of a tweet - like: "I'm with those who don't like the word 'Jazz.' It seems to have been co-opted. I call my music Postmodern New Orleans music. Have a nice day all!"

every once in a while. it can be useful especially if you're not sure "who" you're calling, but do know "what."

You Don't Miss Your Water – Taj Mahal Water Of Love – Dire Straits The Water Is Wide – Charles Lloyd Down By The Water – PJ Harvey Cold Water – Tom Waits Next Word: CRAZY

now that you mention it, he's on so many recordings on my ipod that i probably listen to him a few times every week as well without even necessarily thinking about it. very sad he's gone. brilliant musician. i was only able to see him live once: 1986 at The Bass Clef near London w/ the Frisell/Lovano trio. definitely a great, memorable experience for me. like Motian, i believe that club is gone

Is that a guess on my pic? no, it's not James Brown. but i can see how you'd get that Yes it is a guess on your pic. Joey Baron. oh yeah! looks like you've got two in a row...