MomsMobley

I used to pay lip service to Mateen (saw him lots of '90s) et al and while he has a variety of moves (thus my Bill Perkins reference), none of 'em are particularly inspired. In a different era he'd be a respectable section player; as it stands, it leaves you wondering: we know nobody's buying this jizz (funniest recent earnest-if-misguided Organisssimo Q I recall: is somebody bootlegging Brotzmann records, like that's a way to make $$$!), which is fine, but given that you then have Total Freedom... what has he done with it? I can appreciate, sorta, if people like his post-Ayler (via Bob Cooper) shuck the way I enjoy Terry Waldo but there's not much to it-- indeed, I'd argue there's more to what someone like Waldo uncovers, let alone the level of compositional/timbral invention on the Smile Sessions box. I should clarify that I have the highest regard for Anthony Braxton, just that few of his own tribute records are a patch on his best originals. I did like the Monk album on Black Saint at the time. Add Roscoe Mitchell to the list of important jazz composers too, btw. I'm with you on knocking "A Love Supreme" down a notch compared to "Crescent" or "Sun Ship" but "Ascension" is the sound of too many dudes trying way to hard to keep up and not knowing how. The struggle is there but it's not actually interesting.

Leeway-- oh the 'importance,' in its time of 'Ascension' is obvious but thebeyond that gesture, the music ain't so hot-- Hubbard is brilliant ** elsewhere **; Marion and Archie are blathering (though capable of making decent albums elsehwere, though neither are top shelf soloists, etc), Tchicai is like a better James Spaulding but not better enough etc. re: Kenton, it's hard to top Galt Macdermot but at least Carmichael gives it a try. Kenton plays "West Side Story" >>>>> "Ascension," let alone "City of Glass." Barney Kessel "Some Like It Hot" >>>>> "Ascension." Sabir Mateen is couldn't hang then and he only gets lip service now because he has an 'authentic' name, and a lack of competition within his micro-niche. Listen to a half-dozen Teddy Edwards or Bill Perkins records and tell me different.

if this is what "jazz" has come to, it deserves to DIE-- nay, it should be put down like a lame animal. "Ascension" is a LOUSY composition; the original is more annoying than transcdenent-- WTF could insipid Joe Lovan's version ** possibly ** tell anyone? Except that they were chumps who should have been anywhere else that night. Also, while LvB 5 has probably been viewed from as many angles as necessary at this point, there are VAST plains of classical composition that deserve far wider exposure than nearly all jazz compositions ever, with the usual exceptions: Morton, Duke, Mingus, Braxton, etc. (but ** NOT ** Tony's mostly lousy 'standards' albums) (The Bird one esp. sucked). 99 of 100 Monk covers should not exist-- the 1% is lucky Charlie Rouse was half-lame. Exception: virtuosic trad musicians >>>>>> the careers of these "Ascension"-ites combined (including go-nowhere Sabir Mateen), i.e. Vince Giordano is brilliant, likewise lotsa Randy Sandke projects.

its ** intended ** title, The Gentle HAM of the Bourgeouis is much better-- damm compositor's error!

i love Kenton "Hair" and x # of other jazz meets broadway, film, tv covers... the key-- nay the essential ingredient-- is that they show the same re-creative ardor as went into the originals... this tasteful homage shit is muzak by any other name and not even as well played as, say, the best dermatologist waiting room bacharach-david.

vomitous-- and it sucked when Rova did it first, too. "Ascension" isn't in Top 30 Colrane albums btw but that's neither here nor there... HERE, the only thing worse than Joe Lovano's insipid jazz career, period, Frisell's latest piece of cardstock & plastic dogshit. "Funny" how yokels will mock Chet Atkins latter day countrypolitan tendencies and still pay lip service to Frisell who, not content to sucking the lifeblood out of country-western guitar and calling it homage, doesn't have enough $$$-- and belive, he already does-- with inexpressibly craptastic "John Lennon" tribute-- a stupid-ass idea to begin with but done so goddamn TASTILY I wish John could come back from the grave and bash Frisell in the head with a little "scumbag" and watch his cute little NPR-donating ersatz environmentalist audience run crying to... ... their Joe Lovano tribute records? Moms John Lennon Tribute

ALL GONE-- thank you for your patronage. Mods can delete since I can't seem to find the button? *** is there a greater avant-trad label than Arbors? their, ah, 'unique' graphic design sense keeps some folks away from their numerous brilliant albums but don't let appearances fool; these ALL have moms' stamp of approval; Randy Sandke & Ken Peplowski esp. are undersung and superb musicians. $5 each postpaid U.S. int'l OK with suitable postage added; paypal ok, please pm if interested. *** JOHNNY VARRO Swing 7 s/t w/ Sandke, Phil Bodner, Harry Allen etc JOHNNY VARRRO SWING 7 Swingin' on W. 57th t w/ Sandke, Peplowski, Michael Moore etc JOHNNY VARRO SWING 7 Afterglow w/ Newson, Peplowski, Dan Barrett, Sandke etc CHUCK FOLDS Remember Doc Cheatham w/ Spanky Davis, Irwin Stokes etc KENNY DAVERN A Night With Eddie Condon w/ Davern, McGarity, CONDON etc BUCKY PIZZARELLI Visit With Duke w/ John Bunch, Jay Leonhart KENNY DAVERN Smiles w/ Pizzarell, Howard Alden, Greg Cohen, Tony DeNicola SCOTT ROBINSON Thinking Big w/ Pizzarelli, Richard Wyands, David Robinson etc SCOTT ROBINSON Plays C-Melody Sax w/ Jon-Erik Kelso, Greg Cohen, Mark Shane etc MICHAEL MOORE TRIO History of Jazz Vol 1 w/ Peplowski, Melito MICHAEL MOORE TRIO History of Jazz Vol 2. w/ Peplowski, Tom Melito KENNY DAVERN & KEN PEPLOWSKI The Jazz Kenection w/ Alden, Cohen, John Bunch etc RUBY BRAFF The Cape Codfather w/ Davern, Tommy Newson, Alden, Michael Moore, Kenny Washington BOB WILBER & KENNY DAVERN Reunion at Arbors w/ Pizzarelli, Frishberg etc

This is a correct analysis, re: Pepper, who had not the slightest reason to measure his dick against Sonny at that point ((or any other)). Also, if folks have not yet testified re: Jug (a-lug, Jug-a-lug) & Stitt road band, why might that be? Meanwhile, back at the ranch, how many of ya'll have heard this Teddy Edwards, from 1980? Ready for Teddy It may have been that the example of Coltrane gave Art "permission" to open up his playing in a way that was not possible for the early Art, but was sorely needed later to express what was going on in his life.

ADD: B.B. King "Blues N Jazz" from 1983 to the box, please amazing how cracker ass "blues" "fans" (see above) can so readily dismiss "Love Me Tender" but they're not the first ofays who want black folk to behave the way THEY want 'em to (or else) and they won't be the last. of the eight jillion people that recorded the best Kris Kristofferson songs, it would have been hep if B.B. was a eight jillion + 1.

People-- "Love Me Tender" is brilliant (B.B. even says it's his "greatest album"), the only thing to criticize is... It's too short-- only 44 minutes-- and there was no similar sequel or full duets album with Willie, who's master of the form (single-artist partner). Now, we can lament it's not quite B.B.'s "No Other" (Gene Clark/Thomas Jefferson Kaye) or "Death Of A Ladies Man" (Leonard Cohen/Phil Spector but it's within spitting distance. An entire album of Don Gibson tunes would have been great too, way way better than the medicore one Roy Orbison did for Monument. Would that B.B. covered "Margie's At The Lincoln Park Inn"? My link It would have been awesome.

Lou-- but who said the Hollywood sessions were first rate? It was a rare(-ish) example of Art sounding-- as well as living-- with expedience foremost. if those sides hadn't been semi-elusive Japanese and then slapped in that handsome looking box, we'd lack almost nothing save Jack Sheldon. This is why I maintain Pepper threw the fight-- he knew it was mostly bullshit and didn't care to fake it. Whereas with Sonny, all you need do is flip his "on" switch and-- jesus christ, there he goes again (lick lick lick lick lick lick and just because Moms likes it swirling down there doesn't make it great MUSIC.) Galaxy Pepper alone >>>>>>> all Stitt (as "art.")

Bluesway/ABC/MCA (it's all Universal now)-- same flexible sense of concept that beats ass on mere blues jobbing (even with a turd in your pants). Throw it together and let that smelly dingo run! "Love Me Tender" >>>>>> _______. And "Live At Ol' Miss" = the universe. Come back to this thread when your Street Life game is up, son, you can't hang.

some Bridge is superb, some-- often in standard rep-- is pointless save as artist promotion... which isn't a bad thing entirely, makes more people feel part of something ongoing, not just a long dive down some collector's $1 bin down below asscrack, which itself is infinitely more lauadable than the fraud being perpetrated by an outfit like Pristine... i forget the mediocre Bridge cds BUT Anne-Marie McDermott's Prokofiev sonata cycle is laudable. http://www.bridgerecords.com/catpage.php?call=9298A/C Ya'll tell me if Primakov's Mozart really rates. http://www.amazon.com/Primakov-Plays-Mozart-Concertos-Vol/dp/B003JYOFSM still, I'm glad there's Bridge, Albany, Mode et al keeping on in these ludicrous times. Larry do you listen to Langgaard much

best blues triple album since I bought John Lee Hooker "Free Beer and Chicken," "Kabuki Wuki," and "Born In Mississippi, Raised Up In Tennessee" all the same day, Madison, Wisconsin summer of '74.

Dr. Juck-- yes but you must remember this Art Pepper threw that fight-- he took a dive. Why should he, at that point, have a dick waving contest with Sonny's Stiff one? Praise be the priapic but come on. Art "Living Legend" alone-- alone!!-- kills Sonny and that's not even a peak achievement, at least not in all ways. Sonny was good at a few things and his physical vitality was laudable but how many times you gonna lift the same goddamn weight before trying something else? I did like some of SS' stage patter (awesome fur coat too). Actually I think he does beat Art on "The Hollywood Sessions". (Much as I like Art.)

Bluesway B.B. is the best B.B.-- better singing, better guitar playing, mostly better material, more variety... Pre-Bluesway B.B. is mostly fine-to-excellent but there's a fair amount of wheel spinning too. "Blues purists" (with a load in their pants) have misled musical youth to dismiss lotsa hot $3-8 B.B. albums, all the way up to "Love Me Tender." John Lee Hooker Bluesway is also underrated (some never on cd), >>>>>> Sonny Stitt's life too. A Complete B.B. Bluesway '66-'82 or some other division wouldn't be remiss. Some '90s B.B. doesn't suck either tho' those duet records-- as with Willie will effin' kill you.

absolutely-- not for the playing per se but-- and you might be a little young to remember this firsthand-- but for its real-time import, both as 1939 hit and cultural signifier. studio "live" (on film) Sonny Stitt's just another finger flapping gasbag by comparison. And if other "Cherokee"s we must, I'll start with Bud http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XHoQkxQuHFY Brownie-- http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-Y6U0TD3z34 Johnny Griffin-- http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_XIPDG2GBIs But Barnet and Bird reign supreme, Max too, of course.

I love peak Zoot (inc. "Blues & Haikus") but he lost his nerve. It was a combination of factors: studio hackwork, Coltrane/Coleman/comeback Sonny/chameleon Getz, Dallas '63, 'Nam. While he had moments later, he certainly didn't mature as his ability suggested he could. Larry, speaking of continuity, take a week if you have it and re-read "Gravity's Rainbow." It also shows why no Stitt "Cherokee" ever came close to Barnet or Bird.

Big Wheel-- you know Schaap studied music/played until his early 20s, right? Well now you do... He had very little talent, despite the tutelage/mentors and became an advocate instead. All the things you could be if Jo Jones and Lennie Tristano were your (near) neighbors Chris A-- I'll even accept it's not 'jealousy' per se but a 'grudge'-- earned, or un- or exaggerated it still distorts Schaap's corpus to people who don't know the whole. re: Tommy Potter's shoes, Benny Moten's shinola stash, or Plessy v. Ferguson, or Eddie Durham's childhood fascination for silk-- YOU can talk about whatever you like, as can I-- that's HIS bag. Schaap's flaws are obvious enough (failure to WRITE being chief among them thus his legacy rests on disputed 'oral culture' (w/ tapes)) there's no need to invent more. But if anyone has tapes of The Weird Beard, get at me-- will trade a sliver of Fred 'Hootin' like Wotan' Jackson's reed or Joe Chambers' drum key. Thank you. But that's exactly the problem - Schapp has an infinite number of interesting subjects he could be talking about when it comes to these obscure figures, and instead wastes 90% of his airtime with pointless minutia. What's the point of talking about this stuff at all if you focus on entirely the wrong things? Part of Schapp's problem, I think, is a form of Rock Critic Syndrome - as a non-musician he actually doesn't really understand the music as well as he would like to. To the average listener a lack of total understanding is OK because what they don't know is OK with them; they don't feel they need to know every single facet of what they are listening to. But because of his obsession, Schapp wants badly to get the music on every conceivable level, and so he overcompensates for this knowledge gap in painfully annoying ways.

Oh, I'll go further than Jazznut and say Stiff might have some technical gifts but he also worked hard at various points too. To what end is HIGHLY debatable, however and admiration for Stiff's technique is not the same as respect for his art, tho' in working musicians the two understandably blur. (We can extend this to Oscar Peterson too but I might not have the stomach.) Thus contemporary ofay's ridiculous overpraise of an absolute NOTHING-- a vacuous whorl of anti-music/anti-matter-- like Joe Lovano. If Jazznut tells me he likes Lovano I'll believe it, and understand, but the rest of you-- I don't see how you can listen to Lockjaw, Rollins, Ayler, Roscoe, pre-lost it Pharaoh, Clifford Jordan, Getz, Kamuca, Warne, etc etc an find ANYTHING of ** musical ** value in Lovano. I don't give a shit about his hats or his technical competency. And of course Hank Mobley, who whatever he did take from Sonny used about a 10000x better/more thoughtfully while losing little of the "brawn." Joe Lovano is the death of music. re: the god Earl Hooker, I think it's important to listen to his sideman gigs as well the not fully/comfortably conceived solo sides. I may need to start a Bluesway is (Mostly) MY Way thread soon, hmmmmmmm. Ya'll Wanna See Jazz Hat? This Is Jazz Hat

Well I hope yo donated $$$ Big Ale because the # of people checking out DFW radio from afar is just about zero since The Weird Beard went off the air. Chuck, I think you have lopsided exposure to Schaap's achievement, colored by Chris A's long-time hostility and-- yes-- jealousy. While I believe he doesn't want to be Schaap the person (even if meant more time with Papa Jo Jones), he resents Schaap's fame by blowing a few foibles way the fuck out of proportion. I could play you dozens upon dozens of Schaap interviews you couldn't stop listening to, starting with, say, Truck Parham... and you might say well, someone else could have done it better (tho' I do not think that's true) and I'll say why the fuck didn't they? Any number of Lawrence Lucie interviews are great too and even more obscure, how about Leonard Goldstein from Red Norvo et al? Schaap's an extremely strange dude (you would be too if raised by Queens jazz freaks w/ middle-aged to elderly black men as yr friends/heros) but has done far far far far far far more good than bad-- go through the gig listings & ledgers of the West End Cafe, for example. I'm 99% sure there are killer interviews w/ Percy France too. (99 out of 100 Joe Lovano "fans" just said who?) Finally, again, how many effin' Bird records are there? A finite # even with air checks, Benedetti, etc. You wanna LISTEN to those alone, who the hell's stopping you? Esp. in internet era where all that stuff is "free." I'd rather hear 30-40 minutes speculation on Tommy Potter's shoes because who the hell else is talking about Tommy Potter? Someone, I hope, but not very often. Sharif Abdul Salaam is a cool WKCR dude too, while Ben Young is ultimate Schaap protege, all the useful obsession w/o some of the tics bug some (but aren't SO objectionable in larger scheme , per above.)

Candy, who was Sonny Stiff the hero of? And not Lester, Hawk, Chu, Don Byas, Stan Getz, even Zoot (for white boys), Rollins, Coltrane, Nistico? There are, regardless, right this second, kids in music who consider effin' Lovano (!!) a musical "hero." What does that mean, besides the hope they can get (stultifying) work? Now if you said there were musicians who envied some of Sonny technique-- i.e. with my brains and his brawn ... Hell, son, with my brains and your Braun we can have a party, Moms been so busy she's getting a little unruly down there but tho' "comedy ain't pretty," I bet you could help me clean up real nice.

Ladies & Gentlemen: re: the race issue, it is JSngry who snidely introduced it, please see post #8-- Dude, you can't take the liberty-- you don't have the chops! But like so so so much Sonny, your tongue/fingers move faster than your mind, both in the moment and later "repose." Again, I assert * Sonny's much ballyhooed "energy" and "combativeness" is often impotent rage at Bird and Lester/Hawk et al. * That even if Mark Stryker is correct-- and I take his advisements seriously and will report back if chastened-- that exceptional but slim % of Sonny's too vast output doesn't merit the attention of the lesser known (with respect to their own careers) grottoes of Clifford Jordan, Richie Kamuca, Billy Harper et al. * Tomorrow I'm going to see Ira Sullivan-- his album and that of Paul Geremia are the best white boy blues on Flying Fish * Correction: Earl Hooker was a HUGE innovator!! Pls don't be confused by ** his imitators ** and a confusing solo discography. * "The darker the berry, the sweeter the meat." -- Moms Mobley

dona, Sonny Stiff is A LOT-- waaaaaay-- further than a 'smidge' from genius. Save those wacky but endearing Varitone sides and Larry's memories of Mal, I daresay Sonny brings ** NOTHING ** to the table but a lot air and decent finger speed when he was on. But save the absence of an alternative (a la strip club or gin mill), there's NO situation when Sonny is even the "best" at anything; that he could, at times, transmute a bad attitude into brusque energy is useful but not impressive. I was listening to some later Percy France earlier one phrase from Percy slays entire Stiff albums/concerts. Again, not that it is a fight but if I want won I'll take Sonny Liston every time. Agree with Allen, however, Earl Hooker was awesome --> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=szya2It2MqY

Buck up, son, you'll get there-- and the more you quote Waylon Jennings the better for all of us. Sonny Stiff Love Of The Common People someday you'll discover Earl Hooker (country guitarist) and Bobby Bare (blues singer) and really have your wig blown. Sonny Stiff Long Black Limousine Thank you.