MomsMobley

Don't be a knucklehead Sangria-- my black social values and experience are at least the equal and quite likely the superior of yours, if you wanna get Stiff-like competitive about it. Oooh, maybe next time Sonny will "win"! (But he can't beat Art Pepper or Stan Getz.) (Schildkraut or Wardell Gray.) But the records are not that, are they? You wrap the Prestige, Roost, Verve etc etc toot toot toot too (repeat 1000x fast but NOT as fast as Bird let alone the ideas) in dark creamy thighs, crazy stylin' hair both processed and natural, bright primary colors and plaid-- yeah, then it makes a difference and Sonny is fine enough 'mood' music. Won't make you think too much when only thing you REALLY care about is getting the pink part in. That you can pretend Sonny lived in a world where, say, Anton Webern didn't exist only reveals your own (projected) ig'nance and/or anti-intellectualism, not that of professional jazz musicians/composers of the mid-20th century. But you know what too? Sonny was NOT that popular 'hood either, which much preferred Jimmy Smith and his various rivals/epigones, say, for all sorts of valid reasons. Mere "exuberance"-- not infrequently with laced with malevolence-- isn't that entertaining, which is why Roy Eldridge ** SHREDS ** Stiff at every turn but of course Roy being Roy, he does much else too. Stiff just stands there acting like he had 'reed trouble.' To pretend that Sonny's mere ** functioning ** is some kind of greater triumph or that, outside of a specific context, its value sustains itself is silly. Johnny Griffin coulda been Sonny Stiff but he was too smart to try. Booker Ervin coulda been Sonny Stiff he knew it was a dead-end. etc. Thank you. *** Larry, I did not hear Sonny & Mal, which combination I would not expect much of (though Mal comping >>>>> most pianist's careers, Gene Harris and Jarrett included) but if you say Sonny got over himself to LISTEN, think and play-- OK. He had the technique and stamina (which isn't the same as concentration, of course). If I can take the liberty of reconpurposing "gin mill or strip club" into " blue collar Black social venues" (which I think I fairly can), then...there you have it. Condemnation for not meeting expectations which were never relevant - or in place - in the first place. I'm not a "big" Stitt fan, far from it, but to condemn him for not being something he was probably constitutionally (or shall I play clever hit-and-run-record-date-producer and say Con-Stitt-Tutionally) unable to be, much less desirous of, that seems to me to be just a little...silly. Stitt was a drifter, a gunslinger, a wayfaring stranger, etc etc etc., not a self-aware "artist". That's probably why a lot of people find him annoying, and also why quite a lot of people dig him so much. I think you should evaluate his work in the arena at least as much in terms of the arena as you do the work. It's an arena that is "relevant" to a lot of lives, actually, even if they are not "ours" in experience, aim, and/or outcome. Was his life a waste? Depends on what you consider life, and what you consider wasting it.

I'll tell you Larry because I heard Sonny's session w/ Papa Jo again recently (during WKCR Jo Jones Fest) and was like... what a joke. And then I realized, too, I very rarely really liked ** any ** Sonny, with an exception to be noted. But you know, his legendary "combativeness" (or whatever) is obviously musical impotence. Now I, as many of us do, put Charlie Parker at the absolute peak of 20th c. musical creativity, all genres, so there's nowhere to go but down... Sonny's endless, too-many-notes flailing in those shadows gets us where, or what precisely? A faster Jack McVea? Gene Sedric on sterno? Illinois Jaquet w/ a personality crisis? etc. That Sonny failed to assimilate either Lester Young architecture (and, at his peak, rhythmic "souplesse" (as the Frogs say) or the patience of Ben Webster or Theodore Dreiser (you've read "The Titan" right?)) is indeed a failure not a "choice". I know because I was there. Sonny Stitt is just filling space, over and over and over and over and over again w/ no greater point than merely doing so, making the next record or gig-- a living, fine, but not our LIFE. All the "missed opportunities" and "failure to gel" etc are symptoms of a greater rot. The ** one ** partial exception is Sonny's electric Varitone sessions, where the weirdness of technology compensates for the ultimately futile dullness of his conception. Thank you.

better late than never but why now? why not now but there was dozens of opportunities to see Mat with the other Papa Joe i hope you availed yourself 1.75 just won't do too bad Billy Bang LeRoy Jenkins Michael White & Maneri never recorded together & now they never will

In Dallas right? At a rock club? I was there for that. Olinga! Small world! Yes, that was at Mother Blues, where I also saw Freddie King. Believe it or not, I caught that gig too! got-damn, ya'll too?! Dallas wasn't just the Soft Machine. first time I saw Freddie was when a friend's father got me a ticket to The!!! Beat-- http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=f13OyN_KrVg it's not Clapton or Scofield but what the eff is? hep Mickey Roker solo-- http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dq0jRumMJG4

I used to pay lip service to Sonny but you know what THE TRUTH is? He was an effin' blowhard, all muscle and not mind enough. When he even thinks about Bird, it's just embarrassing. Keep flapping them fingers, Sonny! At best Stitt is a 'functional' player, good for a gin mill or strip club but otherwise unnecessary and usually annoying. I'd almost say as annoying as Joe Lovano except Sonny made at least a few listenable sessions, whereas Lovano (Ken Vandermark) (David S. Ware*), for all his jive jazz hats, has made NONE, zero. Raise your standards, jazz people, you have nothing to lose lousy records. * no not even "Dark To Themselves."

Distinction noted-- and Larry, I know J.B. well, who the else on this board besides you and I even mention him? (A few, I know: Chuck, John L, others.) My intended point (which was in my head, not on screen) is that Melle Mel at his peak was better poet than J.B. though there surely might be tons of unpublished/unknown verse there. Conversely, while J.B. was estimable prose writer, Melle Mel hasn't done much writing outside of music. As for 'cat fight,' besides the knee jerk memorials noting her passing, I stand by my prediction that it's highly unlikely ANY Sugar Hill artists will pay tribute to Syliva Robinson's executive career. And while musicians can be a notoriously ungrateful lot, when NOBODY you worked with has a good word to say... Irving Rosenthal and Ross Feld next!

It had to be said-- I only wish I had more time to report and detail Slyia Robinson's frauds... If anyone cares, follow the next few days to a week, and see if even ONE former Sugar Hill artist will speak in her favor. Note too that Sugar Hill was formed as step away her previous label, which was awash in lawsuits. Meanwhile, if all but a small handful of Sugar Hill act members croaked, you'd never hear about it except maybe on some enthusiast's blog. About the "best" face I've heard put on Sugar Hill is they were in it for exploitation straight up, maybe score a quick hit and run, but when "rap" proved itself a vital/viable genre (which, as a live music, it was well before Sylvia glommed on, tho' it's overlap with funk, disc etc party music was great)... and Melle Mel in particular revealed himself a superior writer (much better than J.B. Figi, tho' Mel never wrote liner notes) well... you just got contracted, lied, shyster lawyered and bullshit accounted yourself into a LEGACY of well-earned scorn. I'll eat my Budd Johnson panda bear shirt if the encomiums start rolling in. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2ChjLMbXVrU

eff her-- effin' THIEF as bad or worse than ** ANY ** record exec; Don Robey might be Alfred Lion in comparison; i've not looked but i'll be surprised if you find even ONE of her acts who has a good word to say. whatever grief she suffered as a woman is more than trumped by her using her skin color to jack dudes who-- while they could have known better-- didn't think a black woman could be that shitty. that she has an accidental "artistic" legacy at all is a sham and insult to the creativity of those who actually did it for peanuts. some sentimental sap will say well it's like Half-Pint Jaxon cutting sides for a flat fee & exposure but in FACT it wasn't like that all-- Sugar Hill legacy is one of LIES LIES LIES LIES LIES LIES LIES.

FACT: ** I ** have the exact same panda shirt as Budd! FACT: All the Budd & Earl lps are near-essential; everyone should have at least two. FACT: Budd Johnson's son Budd Johnson Jr was doo-wop singer, percussionist, and a career criminal, did hard time for armed robbery. FACT: Budd Johnson's grandson-- Budd Jr's son-- Albert Johnson, better known as Prodigy was one of the greatest rappers ever and is still among the most charismatic (he lost some of his virtuoso technique to age, illness-- esp. sickle cell anemia-- misdirection). See-- http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cP0wsET8__Y QUIZ: One free beer to any Organaut who recognizes the piano loop above without looking it up; this was a long-time mystery btw but it ** is ** by canonical jazz musician. (Thus it's not by always dull Jason Moran, the over-acclaimed woeful sap.) BONUS 1: Prodigy's mother was Frances Collins, of later Crystals interest, no shit-- http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ESvs4LDQ6cs REM DOESN'T CARE ABOUT BLACK PEOPLE BONUS 2: O.V. Wright did not die in vain. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=G9tMscnqE90 I'll second that. Great record! (I have that Black & Blue vinyl!

Can't argue too much, Quincy. I have DP 6 and while it nearly falls apart a couple times, it DOES kick in hard. I'm also a fan of-- hold on, lemme see what I have at hand-- "Go To Nassau," DP 13, "Without A Net" (** only ** record I have or ever will have with a Marsalis in the house, sorry Willie), "Dozin' At The Knick," DP 9, "Nightfall of Diamonds." for the '78 cut off folks, DP 18 fuckin' kills. Eh...Maybe it's because I didn't reproduce but I hate "I Will Take You Home" even more than Brent's woman-hating song. It sounded like it belonged to the lovechild of later day Doobie Brothers & Christopher Cross. It was a major buzzkill back in the day, more so than "Day Job" since that one contained some truth. It probably won't change the mind of skeptics as Jerry's voice is hoarse as hell, but Dick's Picks 6 from '83 isn't as bad as the reviews. It falls victim to "they should have picked the show before (or after)" where "St. Stephen" was performed. Although a whole different kettle of band I usually pick the '80 acoustic release Reckoning as the one to try for those who say the hate the band. I can't imagine someone not liking it, though of course some people will anyway.

Jazzbo I'll give you a fair price for any Road Trips with bonus disc (where one was offered). What do you do for later Jerry, stick with JGB? Gotta have "Althea," "Alabama Getaway," "Black Muddy River," "So Many Roads" ... There's some decent later Weir/Barlow too and the right pair of creamy buttocks in your face even Brent "Dear Mr. Fantasy" starts to 'work.' I do agree '72 >>>>> '71 And speaking of '78, this is a pretty good "punk" Jerry presentation-- http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PIM3Jf0qGZ0

A few points: * don't forget 1971 http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=X_3nYixwNn0 * I used to be somewhat down on Brent Mydland but watch the various videos '87-'90 and you can clearly see/hear what a fine musician he (usually) was. * the idea that late Jerry's singing improved even as his playing/general health declined merits serious consideration. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AX9Vhv4akxc He could, of course, play exceedingly well on those occasions the head, hands, heart agreed. * two official sets for '80s skeptics: "Terrapin Station Live" and "Formerly The Warlocks" box

Believe me, if you were in Georgia or among justice/anti-capital punishment folks there's no OTHER way to think about it. It shows you how blinkered they'd become-- Bertis at least is full-time Athens resident; Berry and Mills live outside town, Stipe still drops in, etc. The less I think about Peter Buck anything the better. So meanwhile LOTS of people if not everyone are very agitated yesterday about Troy Davis and of all possible days to make this announcement they do so THEN? Shows you what frauds-- or, if you want to be generous-- how careless they can be. But I'm sure if a CELEBRITY death was imminent, starfu**ker Stipe would have been suitably humble, quiet or contrite. Ghost-- I know you got Big Ears and while I disagree with you about even the IRS era ("Life's Rich Pageant" hype + vacuity soured me on these clowns forever), did you follow them backwards to, say, Gene Clark? His catalog, with the Byrds but especially solo, is tremendous, with almost no low-lights, only a cpl period missteps. He might also be the greatest folk/rock songwriter of the era besides Hunter/Garcia.

Porcy, and do you know what else is going on in Georgia today? REM hq and their lawyer/manager/offices are located in downtown Athens, Ga. Why make this utterly non-event of an announcement TODAY? Not a week, month, fortnight from now, etc? REM DOESN'T CARE ABOUT BLACK PEOPLE Out of arrogance or ignorance, they chose to release this information when the whole world is watching Georgia re: the execution of Troy Davis... ... which, regardless of one's feelings about capital punishment, seems to have enough questions about it that waiting longer won't hurt anyone. Yet REM (a band I never had any use for, at best they prove a band greater than sum of parts, none of which are interesting alone) pops their head out of the shadows now-- Like this was the question on ** anyone's ** mind. Talk about a cocoon!! Especially for a band which has enjoyed a nominally 'progressive' or at least locally/environmentally (in broad sense of the term) reputation. REM DOESN'T CARE ABOUT BLACK PEOPLE

you damn well know the answer-- * Ellis is a never was whose only claim besides being a VERY bad (genetic) seed is alleged '50s friendship with Ornette * Herbie hasn't done shit even half worthwhile in what, 30 years? * Moran is well-groomed garbage, devoid of genuine creativity and not even an appealing moire of other folks moves * whatever spark Rosnes or Perez might have once had is long extinguished to mere careering Hampton Hawes couldn't win, Fess Manetta couldn't win, Muhal-- please!!! more genuine jazz blues & jackie-ing than all these douchemeat judges combined ---> moon jazz 1 moon jazz 2 All of which means, what, exactly? That the young man has good musical manners & treats his band to sandwiches & soft drinks? Admirable & valuable qualities to be sure, but I don't see what it has to do specifically with jazz itself. I'm probably not the first to ask this, but could Monk have won his own competition?

yo Canarsie!!-- I grew up Avenue L next door to the theater-- if dude is really from Canarsie look out, these fuckers will argue about ** EVERYTHING **-- and make no mistake, it ** is ** partly personal but there's a large aspect of sport of it. Germans, the Irish, Southerners and most Jews who who remember Don Rickles on Dean Martin roasts understand this; Limeys and po' faced Midwesterners usually don't. Dutch and Beglians are largely aghast. Italians are still laughing. hey fassrack, you ever get into adult movies like fellow Canarsie guitarist Warren Cuccurrullo? you ever meet Jerry Butler? you should have done the soundtrack to "Raw Talent!" only the strong survive (Clapton only lives from vampirism, he has NO SOUL or essence of his own and the REAL Don Williams is Esquirita x Dick Haymes by comparison), Moms

ah of course I put Jelly Roll in own category as composer rake and madman but otherwise I agree. I would ask the jury to consider Don Ewell as an accompanist. The solos are nice but there's more value to his being in a band than JUST holding his liquor.

I forgot Henry Vestine, my mistake. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zlbAxtKXwJo It's unfortunate a lot of hot Henry is lost to Blind Al Wilson's well-intentioned blubbering but... (Vestine + Ayler >>>>>> Joe Morris' career x 10, needless to say.) Also, here's what CAN be done by a great guitarist/composer with Jim Gordon on drums, rather than Crapton's jive junkie mewling-- "blues" solo at 1:58 http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AoJLMUBSMkc

Dink Johnson

* everything with Teagarden (lots on Mosaic Roulette T) * the three Good Time Jazz sides with Darnell Howard, Pops Foster, Minor Hall for starters

i understand the sensitivity of a dude who's spent his whole life searching for just the 'tastey' 'tone' & 'chord substitution'-- much respect, on those terms but I don't give a damn about Kenny Burrell (goddamn he's so "tasty!") or post-'58 Jim Hall either (so ethereal)-- but you wanna talk Dave Tarras and we can say shalom! Clapton, Winston et al are fucking horrible, a blight on SOUND, dig? It's like rock jerkoffs who revere the Band, despite all evidence to the contrary that they were anything but one-shot mediocrities-- and that ONE idea wasn't really so hot either, once you really thought about it, esp. in a world where Hank Snow still wore nudie suits. Would you dare compare his musical contribution to that of Jerry Garcia orJohn Lee Hooker?

Did JIm riff Wayne Bennett? I did too, like I always riff Eddie Durham & Chauncey Morehouse too. If so, salut-- we can't disagree about anything. Growing up in California, the first electric guitars I heard were hillbilly but the first blues players I saw regularly was Johnny Moore although T-Bone Walker on those occasions I wasn't trying to get someone naked. I was cool to much Chicago blues though of course the best of it is deathless. Much as I appreciate Koester-- used to shoot the shit with him at the north side annex or whatever-- I'd say only half (or less) of the Delmark blues catalog is listenable (as opposed to 'admirable'), which-- it must be said-- is half again as much the fucking Alligator or Bullseye catalogs. Guitar Slim too bad Clapton & Gram Parsons didn't play together, they could have ruined two otherwise great genres of music-- and Wynton makes three! Smiley Lewis Wynton Kelly was from Brooklyn via Jamaican parents, thank you very much

You can think that Larry but it's NOT at all true. Some blues musicians could sing, some could play, some could do both-- NEITHER is primary. You can break it down either/or only by applying false distinctions about what is/isn't "blues"-- which is fine but Don't pretend 78 rpm records = 'blues" because people did different things on record and live. In ** FACT **, I'd be more inclined to argue the predominance of vocal blues distorts the importance of unique instrumental voice inc. timbre & rhythm. Ronnie Earl et al are nice musicians but their records are hard to take Jimmie Vaughan is OK too but in MUCH more limited way than SRV-- I'd not really call him a blues dude anyway (& certainly not if you hear his horrible fucking songs, that's why Kim Wilson wore the hat) but more blues-influenced rocker. Yes, Danny Kalb but even moreso Luke Faust-- look him up. *** Buddy Miles once mistook Allen Lowe for Mick Abrahams (Blodwyn Pig) at Logan airport in Boston (true story) *** TEN GREATEST ELECTRIC AUNT JEMIMAS 1. Freddie King 2. T-Bone Walker 3. John Lee Hooker 4. Elmore James 5. Pee Wee Crayton http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6MIcM2xTog4 6. B.B. King 7. Earl Hooker 8. Magic Sam 9. Lightnin Hopkins 10. Albert King Honorable Mention * Jimmie Rogers, Hubert Sumlin, Robert Nighthawk, J.B. Lenoir, Wayne Bennett, Bloomfield, pre-breakdown Peter Green, COBRA-era Otis Rush, Buddy Guy live in 1960s

I actually meant Mother Earth but you know us old '60s dogs-- sometimes misremember. The answer, btw, to all greatest blues ______ is John Lee Hooker, absolutely towering artist no matter a few slum sessions (Canned Heat) ) and senior citizen cash-ins.

And ya'll know who the greatest (only?) Big Joe Williams acolyte was? Correct, Spider John Koerner. Mind you, I have almost no "use" for SRV music-- maybe he'd have gotten more interesting-- but did need to point out that musically & sociologically he was legit and people who say they were impressed with him live, were. Clapton is just horrible and even if his fake Don Willaims isn't the worst, why not the real Don Williams, as well as many dozens of superior country singers/writers of late '60s, early '70s? It's like the rock clowns who rate Gram Parsons, a horrible soul/country singer with only narrowest folk-y sweet spot. Bonnie Railtt probably deserves more credit than she gets though I don't need in any way either. Too bad there aren't more live recordings of Gatemouth Brown ONE solo/ONE song of Freddie King >>>>>>>>>>>> Clapton's career. Wynton is a GREAT composer, however, if you like lobotomized black Martinu. As an arranger he makes Van Alexander seem like Bob Graettinger. As a singer, Clapton makes Bob Scobey seem like Charley Patton. SRV ** was ** a Lightnin' Hopkins fan too, however, which is telling. Electric blues turd arguments have no winner. Chuck and I used to dance at Joy of Cooking shows! Simultaneously, not together. Danny Kalb