sgcim

OOhh! That very good! You play entire Sonny Stitt solo instead of coming up with your own lines! We try to discourage creativity at Jazz Karaoke. Ladies, sex this boy up!!

I'm sorry, you play wrong note on bar 23- no sex for you! Next!

Yeah, but it's got to start in Japan. Americans are only capable of copying things that originate in Japan anymore; films, tech, Karaoke, etc... Some US club owner goes on vacation to Japan and sees the Eric Dolphy Karaoke, sees all the sex it generates, and then incorporates it into his club in the US. That's how it's gotta start.

In the first part of my post, I'm not talking about training; I'm talking about exposure to jazz or any other types of music other than hip-hop. They're not getting exposed to jazz on "Hot 97", they're not getting exposed to it as Mike said on the streets, the schools etc... My guess is that you were at least exposed to it somewhere earlier, but today it has become as Ralph Ellison would say, the 'invisible man'. And don't tell me the internet has made things better, because they just follow what ever becomes 'viral' on you tube.

As a music teacher at an inner-city HS for over 15 years, i conducted various forms of research into how non- musician kids perceived music before taking my class. Some findings were: 1) About 98% of the kids that didn't play an instrument or sing could not tell if a pitch was higher or lower than another pitch. 2) The only jazz/swing music they responded to was "Sing, Sing, Sing" , probably because it was in that Jim Carey movie, The Mask. 3) Most of them could not identify the sound of most instruments. Almost nobody could tell that Tal Farlow was playing a guitar, on tests(!) 4) They all hated Esther Phillips. 5) When given the opportunity to pass the class by doing an extra credit assignment that consisted of simply listening to any jazz recordings, and explaining why they did or did not like the music, about 50% chose to fail the class. The other 50% would say they liked the recordings because they found the music relaxing. Since the kids that played instruments and sang were the polar opposite, the solution might be to have as many students as possible learn instruments and sing in chorus, gospel choir, etc... However, since Bloomberg assumed mayoral control of the schools, music programs hit rock bottom, with no instrumental programs in ANY elementary schools, barely any (maybe 5%) music programs in Middle School, and approximately 25% of high schools having a basic music program (not just a Chorus). This 25% was further reduced to almost nothing as a result of Bloomberg forcing music out of the curriculum by requiring students to have double math and English periods, and then closing down almost every High School large enough to have a music program, and dividing each school into three independent charter schools which would make it impossible to have a school band, orchestra, etc...within that school(s). The fact that most jazz musicians, Charlie Parker, Eric Dolphy, etc...learned how to play their instruments in school is almost beside the point. The point is how can you expect to have an informed listening audience for jazz with the multiple assaults of hip-hop, non-existent school music programs and technology's destruction of the music business. I find it amazing that there is any listening audience at all, at this point.

According to a trumpet player friend of mine, Clark Terry couldn't even play the trumpet for the last 20 years. He saw people like Clark at Town Hall in Queens about 20 years ago, and he had difficulty even getting notes out. The same thing happened with his idol, Freddie Hubbard- he could barely play towards the end. IMHO, Lee Konitz is a shadow of what he used to be... Jazz musicians are like athletes in that sense.

John, I just finished "There's A Mingus Among Us", another great interview. Here's my favorite quote when you asked Mingus about the influence that Eric Dolphy and Ornette Coleman had on the jazz of that period: "How can you talk about Eric Dolphy and Ornette Coleman? Eric Dolphy was a master musician. Ornette Coleman can only play in the key of C. Ornette Coleman doesn't have any color in his music. Jazz is supposed to have a tradition. I don't hear any tradition in Ornette Coleman. I don't hear any Charlie Parker in his playing. Now I like the songs he writes- they're good songs. But he could never be the the player Eric Dolphy was." Downbeat Feb. 27, 1975.

Órale!! The music is by Terry Smith. I wonder if he's related? Muddy Waters is also played when the young women do their act;.

I knew someone would cheat and use the IMDB. The movie was "Street Girls" (1975), (the other IMDB listings are TV shows where he probably played the organ). This movie was so obscure, that it wasn't listed in either of the two volumes of the Psychotronic Encyclopedia of Film I own. Jimmy plays a hip, jive talkin' strip club bartender named Jimmy. He's usually dressed in a thick leather jacket with a big cowboy hat when he's on the street, but he wears typical bartender garb in the club. The plot is similar to the George C. Scott movie, "Hardcore", where a daddy is looking for his wayward little girl. Although he has a tough exterior, 'Jimmy' is a strip club bartender with a 'heart of gold', as he rescues the father getting the shit beat out of him by a pimp. There's a great scene of 'Jimmy' playing pool with some of the 'brothers'. He's constantly smoking a cigarette, blowing the smoke out of his nose. 'Jimmy' is pretty much the only sympathetic character in the flick, as all the white characters are shown as a bunch of stoners, junkies, pimps, rednecks and stripper/'hoes'. Jimmy is constantly shown shaking his head smiling, as whitey keeps making fools out of themselves. As whitey continues to ruin the lives of everyone they come in contact with, Jimmy gets the last line of the movie, shaking his head, and muttering, "Crackers..." The movie was co-written by Barry Levinson, a fact that he probably doesn't include in his filmography.

I couldn't believe my fucking eyes tonight when I was watching a movie that had Jimmy Smith in a dramatic role. There wasn't an organ in sight, and he even had the last line in the movie.

Well put Colin, and you didn't have to type a letter!

RIP. He had universal respect from the thousands of musicians he worked with.

Well, things like that take time... I didn't know you were on this forum, great article! I look forward to reading "There's a Mingus Among Us". As someone who was writing for DB, John, what do you think were the reasons for DB going from a great jazz magazine back then, to what it is today?

I've been reading the Downbeat anthology, "The Great Jazz Interviews" (75th Anniversary), and there's one article on the AEOC entitled, "There Won't Be Any More Music" Roscoe says, "You know, someday soon there won't be any more music. Oh, there'll still be musicians, but they'll only be playing in their homes, in their living rooms, for their families and other friends. Money! That's what it's all about." -Roscoe Mitchell, Oct. 1, 1971

I'm happy to wish the great George Coleman a happy birthday. We were forced to go to some meeting where a woman that had something to do with the Grammy Awards organization told us that George was practically on his deathbed. This was about ten years ago. Does anyone know what she was talking about? Misinformation from the fascist Bloomberg regime was a regular occurrence back then, so I didn't think much about it.

I bought one of Calvin's CDs hoping to hear a guitar equivalent of his brother, but that wasn't the case at all. I don't know what's going on with the Phineas lineage, but there's a Phineas Newborn III who's a Hollywood actor.

Here's two performances of Lush Life by Newborn. The first in 1961 or 1962: The second in 1989:

Silver didn't single out a specific pianist. Rather he said, in Down Beat in 1956, "I can't stand that faggot-type jazz," by which it was understand that he meant the predominant West Coast jazz style of the time. As for Newborn, it's my understanding that he always was a psychologically fragile person, though the "mere virtuosity" putdowns of his playing probably didn't help. I was getting that quote from his autobiography, "Let's Get To the Nitty Gritty". I'll have to check it to see if I got it wrong. Newborn definitely had nervous system issues, but I've never heard his diagnosis. Those West Coast critics didn't help things out, though. He's worthy of a biography. As for those criticisms of Newborn for being too flashy or too indebted to Tatum and what all, I don't recall that they came from West Coast-based critics at all -- if so, they certainly weren't criticizing Newborn from any "West Coast Jazz is the thing" perspective; there was little or nothing about Newborn's playing that was akin to the styles of either coast -- but, IIRC, from guys like John S. Wilson of the NY Times and, maybe even, -- oh, the horror! -- Nat Hentoff. In fact, I wouldn't be surprised if Nat hadn't compared Newborn unfavorably to that earthy unflashy paragon .... Horace Silver. BTW, whatever happened to Adam Makowicz, who in the '70s received much the same response that Newborn reived in the late '50s? Interestingly, one of Makowicz's chief critical advocates was the typically stern and insightful Max Harrison. I got it from here: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Phineas_Newborn,_Jr. It said that it happened when he moved to LA, but it said 'some critics' so i was wrong to assume that that it was West Coast critics. Good proofreading/fact checking Larry; you might want to consider working for a newspaper. I was inspired to read the 1959 DB article on OP after reading what Allen said about Dick Katz' statement that OP had facility- not technique. Some of the article was about OP criticizing other pianists; specifically Horace (too linear), Ahmad Jamal (only uses abstract 'singing' lines) and Errol Garner (He's a stylist, we'll never hear what he would've sounded like if he had studied). He said it was too early to judge Bill Evans. He was criticizing just about all the pianists of that time for not playing the whole piano. Oscar had studied piano technique in depth, and played all the classics, so I don't know about the validity of Katz' critique. OP details his heavy debt to Tatum, but criticizes Tatum for not fitting into a trio situation (overplaying) as well as he did. Hentoff was inspired by the sad demise of Newborn to set up a fund for jazz musicians (mentioned in the Wiki article above) with his issues. There's a very creepy video of one of Newborn's last solo performances. He turns around and stares at the audience after every phrase he plays... I was surprised to find that Newborn played on what is considered by some as the first rock and/or roll record, "Rocket 88" , or at least played on the tour that supported the record. Ike turner is credited on the record.

Silver didn't single out a specific pianist. Rather he said, in Down Beat in 1956, "I can't stand that faggot-type jazz," by which it was understand that he meant the predominant West Coast jazz style of the time. As for Newborn, it's my understanding that he always was a psychologically fragile person, though the "mere virtuosity" putdowns of his playing probably didn't help. I was getting that quote from his autobiography, "Let's Get To the Nitty Gritty". I'll have to check it to see if I got it wrong. Newborn definitely had nervous system issues, but I've never heard his diagnosis. Those West Coast critics didn't help things out, though. He's worthy of a biography.

I think OP became an annoying, trite player around the time he had that horrible TV show from Montreal on cable, but in the 50s and 60s, in rare situations, he still had that drive, swing and sense of note placement that made for great jazz. Dick Katz was another under-recognized giant that always made a strong musical statement in a very subtle way; ie- his solo on "Yesterdays" with Tony Scott.

I'll never forget Horace Silver's characterization of a certain pianist as "He plays like a fuckin' faggot!" There's something about the percussive touch, drive, and placement that pianists like Silver, OP of the 50s and 60s, Eddie Costa(!), and Phineas Newborn(!!) possessed, that just sends me into a type of profound rapture that nothing else comes close to. I agree that OP could sound mechanical (by the late 70s, he literally became some type of horrible machine!), but on those rare instances when he didn't, and he was burning, it was a thing of joy. This same criticism of glib virtuosity haunted the great Phineas Newborn to such an extent, that he wound up in Camarillo State for extended periods of time over those accusations, according to some accounts(!).

I've never been able to forgive KL for destroying the Criss Cross LP, "The Master" by Jimmy Raney. A complete mismatch. Maybe not KL's fault as much as whoever decided to pair this odd couple...

What we're dealing with partly in this thread is the mistrust of virtuosity in jazz, something both Buddy Rich and OP had in common. While I agree that OP could not achieve the 'overall subtlety' that Haig, Jordan or Dodo had, Haig, Jordan and Dodo could not in their wildest dreams achieve the overpowering swing and drive that OP possessed. Do you really think that the records Getz made with Haig and Jordan could compare in terms of overt swing, power and drive with the records Getz made in the 50s with OP? By the same token, OP would have destroyed the wonderful Getz/Raney quintet recordings featuring Jordan and Haig,with his overbearing lack of subtlety. I love both of them for what they are. This hatred of virtuosity that lacks subtlety in jazz seems to be behind the animosity players like EI have towards musicians like Buddy Rich and OP. But along with that hatred, there is a subconscious envy of the superhuman ability of 'freaks' like OP and Rich. The only way that they can deal with the fact that they can never do what OP and BR could do in terms of the superhuman speed these two artists could create at, is to denounce them (or denounce their followers as racist), or dismiss them, like Fred Hersch and EI did so casually with OP on DTM.

Well said JT! I tell all my musician friends that there's a web site called Organissimo where they all hate Oscar Peterson, and they all let out a series of epithets that I would not care to write here. In fact, I just got off the phone with a musician who was on the road with Curtis Fuller in Gates' Band (LH), about the consensus on OP, and his reply was*%($(^$(&$% them!

On the three day Clark Terry Memorial broadcast on WKCR, Phil Schaap played the Count Basie Octet sides where BUDDY RICH was playing drums on some cuts (Gus Johnson on others), along with CT, Charlie Rouse, Buddy DeFranco and Serge Chaloff. Yes sir, that Count Basie must have been some kind of racist!