The Magnificent Goldberg

Arthur Prysock? Ray Charles/Betty Carter? MG MG, I think SS1 means what's marketed as 'smooth jazz' but is really instrumental R'n'B with all rough edges shaved away and almost no relationship to blues at all. Rippingtons and their ilk. Most soul jazz could be characterised as instrumental R&B. MG

Try a sermon. Rev Jasper Williams' 'I fell in love with a prostitute' is very good, often very loud, and very long (56 mins). MG Oh dear. What's the story about MG? Old Testament prophet Hosea, told by his god to marry Gomer, a gentile prostitute, and what happened to them afterwards. A wonderful example of how to use entertainment to get the message over. MG

Arthur Prysock? Ray Charles/Betty Carter? MG

Try a sermon. Rev Jasper Williams' 'I fell in love with a prostitute' is very good, often very loud, and very long (56 mins). MG

Goodness! I'll take 3... MG

I shan't buy it. I'd buy a box of Shirley's Impulse material, (including Stan's 'Let it go')... Well, that's a thought. MG

MG

Since I made such a lash-up of the first list, I thought I'd do it properly I put it in artist order this time. Some changes and, of course, some additions. And I put numbers in, so you don't need to count them 1 Cannonball Adderley - Live In San Francisco - Riverside - 10/1959 2 Nat Adderley - Workin' - Timeless - 3/1992 3 Gene Ammons/Groove Holmes - Groovin' With Jug - Pacific Jazz - 8/1961 4 Gene Ammons - Bad Bossa Nova - Prestige - 9/1962 5 James Brown - Grits & Soul - Smash - 5&8/1964 6 Odell Brown & the Organizers - Mellow Yellow - Cadet - 4/1967 7 Paul Bryant – Something’s Happening - Fantasy - 1963 8 Rusty Bryant - Friday Night Funk For Saturday Night Brothers - Prestige - 7/1972 9 Milt Buckner - Please Mr Organ Player - Argo - 5/1960 10 Milt Buckner/Buddy Tate – Them There Eyes – Black & Blue - 12/1967 11 Kenny Burrell - Midnight Blue - Blue Note - 1/1963 12 Eddie Chamblee - The Rockin' Tenor Sax Of EC - Prestige - 2/1964 13 Ray Charles/Milt Jackson - Soul Brothers - Atlantic - 9/1957 14 Hank Crawford - The World Of Hank Crawford - Milestone - 2/2000 15 Eddie 'Lockjaw' Davis - Cookbooks - Prestige - 6,9&12/1958 16 Eddie 'Lockjaw' Davis/Bill Doggett – Midnight Slows vol 10 – Black & Blue - 7/1978 17 Lou Donaldson - Alligator Bogaloo - Blue Note - 4/1967 18 Cornell Dupree - Bop'n'blues - Kokopelli - 11&12/1994 19 Charles Earland - Livin' Black - Prestige - 9/1970 20 Charles Earland - Leaving This Planet - Prestige - 12/1973 21 Teddy Edwards/Les McCann - It's About Time - Pacific Jazz - 8/1959 22 The Fabulous Counts – Jan Jan – Cotillion - c1968 23 Herman Foster - The Explosive Piano of HF - Epic - 5/1961 24 George Freeman - Frantic Diagnosis - Bam-Boo - c1976 25 Funk Inc - Hangin' Out - Prestige - 12/1972 26 Grant Green - Remembering - Blue Note - 8/1961 27 Grant Green - Alive! - Blue Note - 8/1970 28 Al Grey/Jimmy Forrest - OD (Out 'Dere) - Greyforrest - 7/1980 29 Red Holloway - The Burner - Prestige - 8&10/1963 30 Groove Holmes - On Basie’s Bandstand - Prestige - 4/1966 31 Groove Holmes – Onsaya Joy - Flying Dutchman - 8/1974 32 Jackie Ivory - Soul Discovery - Atco - 8/1965 33 Fred Jackson - Hootin' 'N Tootin' - Blue Note - 2/1962 34 Milt Jackson - Soul Believer - Pablo - 9/1978 35 Milt Jackson - Night Mist - Pablo Today - 4/1980 36 Willis Jackson - Star Bag - Prestige - 3/1968 37 Willis Jackson - In The Alley - Muse - 1976 38 Willis Jackson - Bar Wars - Muse - 12/1977 39 Illinois Jacquet - Go Power - Cadet - 3/1966 40 Illinois Jacquet - The Soul Explosion - Prestige - 3/1969 41 Jazz Crusaders - Live At The Lighthouse '66 - Pacific Jazz - 1/1966 42 Boogaloo Joe Jones - Snake Rhythm Rock - Prestige - 11/1972 43 Etta Jones - My Buddy - HighNote - 12/1997 44 Charles Kynard - Soul Brotherhood - Prestige - 3/1969 45 Billy Larkin & The Delegates & Clifford Scott - Blue Lights - Aura - 1965 46 Perri Lee – A Night At Count Basie’s – Roulette - 10/1960 47 Ramsey Lewis – In Chicago – Argo - 4/1960 48 Ramsey Lewis – Hang On Ramsey – Cadet - 10/1965 49 Ramsey Lewis – Goin’ Latin – Cadet - 12/1966 50 Johnny Lytle - People & Love - Milestone - 8/1972 51 Junior Mance - Soul Eyes - M&I - 4/2004 52 Les Mccann/Eddie Harris - Swiss Movement - Atlantic - 6/1969 53 Freddie McCoy - Lonely Avenue - Prestige - 1&2/1965 54 Freddie McCoy - Peas 'n Rice - Prestige - 10/1965&4&5/1967 55 Jack McDuff - Screamin’ - Prestige - 10/1962 56 Jimmy McGriff – A Bag Full Of Blues – Solid State - Summer 1967 57 Jimmy McGriff - Black Pearl - Blue Note - 1971 58 Blue Mitchell - Blue Mitchell - Mainstream - 3/1971 59 Idris Muhammad - The House Of The Rising Sun - Kudu - 6,9&10/1975 60 Calvin Newborn - Up City - Omnifarious - Mid 1996 & 1/1998 61 David Newman/Ray Charles - Fathead - Atlantic - 11/1958 62 David Newman - Davey Blue - HighNote - 5/2001 63 Maceo Parker - Life On Planet Groove - Minor Music - 3/1992 64 Don Patterson - Hip Cake Walk - Prestige - 5&7/1964 65 John Patton - The Way I Feel - Blue Note - 6/1964 66 John Patton - Soul Connection - Nilva - 6/1983 67 Houston Person - The Nearness Of You - Muse - 11/1977 68 Jimmy Ponder - To Reach A Dream - Muse - 7/1988&6/1989 69 Pucho & The Latin Soul Brothers - Groovin' High - Cannonball - c1997 70 Ike Quebec - Heavy Soul - Blue Note - 11/1961 71 Alvin Queen/Lonnie Smith - Lenox And Seventh - Black & Blue - 5/1985 72 Irene Reid - Million Dollar Secret - Savant - 2/1997 73 Freddie Roach - All That's Good - Blue Note - 10/1964 74 Clifford Scott/Les McCann - Out Front - Pacific Jazz - 2/1963 75 Rhoda Scott - Live At The Club Saint-Germain - Barclay - 5/1974 76 Rhoda Scott/Ricky Ford/Houston Person - Very Saxy - Ahead - 1&2/2004 77 Shirley Scott – Superstition – Cadet - 1973 78 Shirley Scott - One For Me - Strata East - 11/1974 79 Jimmy Smith - Home Cookin' - Blue Note - 7/1958,5&6/1959 80 Johnny 'Hammond' Smith - Black Coffee - Riverside - 11/1962 81 Johnny 'Hammond' Smith - Black Feeling - Prestige - 12/1969 82 Lonnie Smith - Live At Club Mozambique - Blue Note - 5/1970 83 Lonnie Smith/Crash - The Doctor Is In - Cellar Live - 9/2003 84 Melvin Sparks - Sparkling - Muse - 2/1981 85 Leon Spencer - Where I'm Comin' From - Prestige - 2/1972&1/1973 86 Dakota Staton - More Than The Most - Capitol - 9&10/1959 87 Dakota Staton - Madame Foo Foo - Groove Merchant - 1972? 88 Sonny Stitt – Primitivo Soul – Prestige - 12/1963 89 Sonny Stitt - Just The Way It Was: Live at the Left Bank - Label M - 3/1971 90 Stanley Turrentine - That's Where It's At - Blue Note - 1/1962 91 Stanley Turrentine - Sugar - CTI - 11/1970 92 Fred Wesley - Swing & Be Funky - Minor Music - 5/1992 93 Don Wilkerson - Elder Don - Blue Note - 5/1962 94 Baby Face Willette - Face To Face - Blue Note - 1/1961 95 Baby Face Willette - Mo' Rock - Argo - 2&4/1964 96 Baby Face Willette - Behind The 8 Ball - Argo - 11/1964 97 Charles Williams - Trees And Grass And Things - Mainstream - c1971/72 98 Reuben Wilson - Blue Mode - Blue Note - 12/1969 99 John Wright - South Side Soul - Prestige - 8/1960 100 Larry Young - Groove Street - Prestige - 2/1962 MG

Whistler's mother. Tom Mix. Superman. Cadillacs. Chuck Berry. MG

You said it, Paul. MG

Happy Birthday Chris; and many more! MG

Then she DOES sing with an accent MG

Non-English speaking vocalists singing in English (especially Brazilians). Sing in your own language. I like the mystery of being clueless about what you are saying. Even if they're making fun of all the stiff upper lips in the audience? Can't understand them so they can be singing about what they like. Actually, it tends to be worse when the translate lyrics from the native language into English! I'm sure Stacey Kent singing in French sounds awful to the French. They probably like it - after all, a previous generation liked Petula Clark singing in heavily-accented French. Pet was chic! MG No, it's because you've never seen Dr Lonnie Smith live, Bev MG Oh, I shout, whoop and whistle in the privacy of my own house (or car) to Lonnie Smith. But in public? Certainly not! Me too - that's the only time. MG

No, it's because you've never seen Dr Lonnie Smith live, Bev MG

Lots of the New Orleans jazz musicians were related. I seem to recollect that Jelly Roll Morton was related to the Barbarins. MG

Good for you! MG

Hm... MG

I can tell you that the Southern American Rural Cultures in/with which I grew did use music to teach/instill social/moral lessons/values. Shows it works. Yeah, well... MG

NO DANCING!!!!! MG

Now there I think I disagree with you. Experience with Senegalese music inclines me to think that sponsorship is - or can be - a good thing. Commercial sponsorship enabled the Senegalese music industry to beat pirates who were selling about 80% of all albums in Senegal in the 70s and early 80s, by reducing the price of K7s to a competitive level. I can't find on the web any examples of album sleeves actually containing adverts for products like Nescafe frappe, or Baralait (a baby milk formula), but I have them myself. The albums all contain a song praising their sponsored products. The music industry in Senegal would have been destroyed without this sponsorship. With it, the pirates have been driven out of the market. Here's the website for the 20th St Louis Jazz Festival, sponsored by the government and about 40 firms whose logos appear at the bottom of the page. No well known American jazz musicians this year but past years have featured Parlan, Shepp, Lucky Petersen, Roy Haynes, Louis Sclavis, Randy Weston, Jack DeJohnette, McCoy Tyner and the Elite Swingsters. MG No doubt. However, I've had experience with sponsorship of the type where the music is there just to pimp the sponsor and you're expected to act all....endorseful and shit b/c of your participation. Not happy when that happens. No doubt you have. I think I said something relevant about you lot over there being different to us lot over here in the Americana thread. Take it as read MG

Depends. A lot of music isn't just music, it's words, too. So if you're listening to a musician and band reciting an incident from history, you can get as caught up in it as listening to a play on the radio, or in a church, listening to a sermon. The difference between African historical recitals and radio plays is that there's no music in the play. There's sometimes music in a sermon. But then, when you listen to a story being told, you're using a different part of your mind from the bit you use to listen to purely instrumental music. I think. MG Isn't that a special thing about the Traditional cultures, the word or the narrative has primacy. So the music the dance etc is one part of the whole cultural expression, because the story/words are still there. Is not part of the beauty of Jazz that it tells the story after the explicit connection to the words have been lost. Sorry to say this, but I think your use of the phrase 'Traditional cultures' is highly patronising. Listen to some albums of sermons by black preachers; self-evidently from the same 'Traditional culture' as the jazz musicians you're thinking about. Function makes form. Many of the African peoples whose music I know use that music as part of an environment in which kids growing up are encouraged (doubtless not invariably successfully) to live in an honest, ethical and upstanding way. So words are essential in that endeavour; just as they are in church. In the west we have no similar notion of music providing such an environment; our notions of music are almost purely aesthetic; even when the music is explicitly entertainment. It's Art for Art's sake or entertainment for entertainment's sake. One consequence of the economic and military domonance of the west is that we tend to think that we're best at everything and that therefore other approaches can't be as beautiful as ours. Wrong. MG

Now there I think I disagree with you. Experience with Senegalese music inclines me to think that sponsorship is - or can be - a good thing. Commercial sponsorship enabled the Senegalese music industry to beat pirates who were selling about 80% of all albums in Senegal in the 70s and early 80s, by reducing the price of K7s to a competitive level. I can't find on the web any examples of album sleeves actually containing adverts for products like Nescafe frappe, or Baralait (a baby milk formula), but I have them myself. The albums all contain a song praising their sponsored products. The music industry in Senegal would have been destroyed without this sponsorship. With it, the pirates have been driven out of the market. Here's the website for the 20th St Louis Jazz Festival, sponsored by the government and about 40 firms whose logos appear at the bottom of the page. No well known American jazz musicians this year but past years have featured Parlan, Shepp, Lucky Petersen, Roy Haynes, Louis Sclavis, Randy Weston, Jack DeJohnette, McCoy Tyner and the Elite Swingsters. MG

So you never felt Marvin Cabell's playing was 'wretched' like it was described by Richard Cook in the Jazz Encyclopedia. Obviously you and Richard are from different tribes Marvin Cabell is anything BUT wretched. Who's Richard Cook? MG

Haven't seen this thread before. I don't often go to art exhibitions; they don't turn up in these parts too often, though Cardiff Museum has some nice stuff. About 10 years ago, I had to go to a high-level political meeting held in a grand house on The Mall, which the Government owns and uses as a conference centre. After the meeting, I had a wander around the ground floor, which was stacked full of 18th and 19th century British paintings and portraits that don't usually see the light of day in regular galleries. Wow! MG

Charleston is very interesting. My wife comes from that village (Firle) and knew all about it. Mike, when next in Paris take time to visit the permanent Redon exhibition at the Musée d'Orsay http://www.cord.edu/faculty/andersod/redon.html The Redons are in a room off the beaten track as befits. The room is in the dark to protect the delicate material used by Redon. Whenever I go to the Musée d'Orsay - which is pretty often - I take some time to admire these masxterpieces. Redon is one of my favourite painters. I took my daughter to the Musee d'Orsay to see them back in the day. He was Debussy's favourite, too. Also Gustave Moreau; his house is a museum of his work. Overwhelming! MG