The Magnificent Goldberg

Once upon a time in Richmond, you could see the Yardbirds on Saturday nights. MG

Yeah, but who was it who had his signature reproduced on every album sleeve? MG

What's this logging in business? I NEVER log in. I just connect (over and over again) via e-mail notifications of posts on subscribed threads and I'm in. Do you all actually log out when it's lunch time or whatever? MG

Definitively, he is/was a vibes player who appeared on one unissued session by Freddie Roach and that's ALL the recording he ever did. MG

Creed Taylor, too? That's always been my impression. Have I done him an injustice? MG

Yes, of course. But, with the exception of a couple of tracks Clyde recorded with the Dominoes - "Have mercy baby" and "The bells" are about it and he didn't follow up on them when he moved to Atlantic and the Drifters were formed - Ray was the leader. He was the one who made that synthesis between Blues, R&B & Gospel into an aesthetic, which Clyde never did. That affected everything, not just R&B; and the impact on R&B was immediate. Few R&B artists who had hits before 1954 also had them afterwards, unless they updated their styles (or unless there was some kind of novelty or gimmick). Major redundancies in the R&B world - and also among the honking sax men - at that point. MG

Actually, I was just listening to "Guitar seche" by Djessou Mory Kante (Popular African Music AG701) and it occurred to me that this is very fine, too. It's an album of accoustic guitar quartets (one trio), with each player placed so neatly in the mix that you can pick out each one's contribution. It was recorded by Gunther Gretz in the Club Gbassikolo of l'Hotel de l'Unite in Conakry in 1998 (not a live performance, though). Gretz is an excellent guy for making good recordings under the MUCH less than perfect circumstances that you get in Africa. MG

The JAM LP issue is indeed kind of cheesy looking... but I never had any complaints re the pressing/sound quality. The Discomate issue I had only a vague recollection of hearing about years ago, so I Googled. Found it here: http://homepage3.nifty.com/mrmanri/Etc/analogto.html Pretty interesting page to peruse. Has Curtis Fuller's "Fire And Filligree" (Beehive) ever seen daylight again? I agree, there's nothing wrong with the cheapo JAM pressing. But for their main series, they used what they cracked on to be much better ones. They were called "Ultradisk" and (it sez on my McGriff) "manufactured on specially formulated vinyl under rigorous quality control conditions. manually pressed by (sig) Elaine Hart, at DISKMAKERS USA". I guess if you charge more, you have to have a bit of hype, doncha? MG

Actually, thinking about this a bit more later, the aesthetic push was actually in R&B. It was "I got a woman" and "This little girl of mine" - much harder and tighter than eg "Chains of love" and "Mama he treats your daughter mean"; and with that Gospel element coming in much stronger with Ray than with Clyde. Horace Silver picked up on this very quickly, emulating Ray's arrangements with the Jazz Messengers, and hitting the Gospel and Blues every bit as hard as Ray in his tunes and his playing. But it's likely that lots of people all over the country were woodshedding this new approach; just as they did in the 60s following James Brown's "Out of sight" and "Brand new bag". It happened that, as far as organ was concerned, JOS got there first, albeit after Horace and the JMs. Thinking about the other organists we've mentioned earlier, who were around at the time, I seriously doubt if any of them could have managed to bring that Ray Charles thing into modern jazz without those technical elements that JOS developed. If you read Ray's autobiography, he was absolutely definite about needing guys with superb chops to play the stuff he had in mind - hence Wilkerson, Newman etc. MG

I don't think that's really giving JOS enough credit, Clem. What he did seems to me a fair bit more than that. In addition to his technical innovations, which Jim's dealt with, JOS seems to me to have changed the THRUST of organ playing in a way that even people who don't particularly play like him still joined in. To me, that aesthetic revolution that JOS really did inaugurate is the most important thing. Were other people working towards it at the same time? Possibly only Willette, and on the strength of only one side of a 45, can be documented. But other people in the Midwest, about whom we know comparatively little relating to their early days - Sam Lazar and Mel Rhyne are possible examples - may also have been feeling their way towards it. Also, I haven't heard enough Tommy Dean to know how his playing developed - I neglected to buy the LP that was pirated in the '80s - but he was some kind of flying version of Doggett in the mid fifties. There was also a guy called Jack Murphy in St Louis who never recorded; Grant Green worked with him, too, in the mid-fifties. But apart from Willette, all this is speculation on my part, because there's no evidence, or none that I've heard. MG

I think you're right. They're so natural sounding that you don't think about what they sound like (well, I don't). But thinking about it now, my favourite, from a warm, live, sound point of view, is Teddy Edwards' "Heart and soul"; I think the only time Contemporary put out an organ album. MG

Cal Tjader - Huracan - Crystal clear orig Jimmy Owens - Horizon orig Gene Russell - Talk to my lady - Black Jazz orig Lou Donaldson - Sophisticated Lou - BN UA orig Just noticed this is all very different kinds of '70s stuff. A lot of interesting stuff in the '70s. MG

As as sideman Grover appeared on the following Prestige albums, most of which you can get on twofer CDs from Fantasy, in the early ‘70s Charles Earland – Livin’ Black (PRCD24182) (17/9/70) Boogaloo Joe Jones – No way (PRCD24309) (23/11/70) Leon Spencer – Sneak preview (PRCD24185) (7/12/70) Melvin Sparks – Spark plug (PRCD2171) (1&8/3/71) Johnny “Hammond” Smith – What’s going on (PR10015 LP) (12/4/70) Leon Spencer – Louisiana Slim (PRCD24185) (7/7/71) Boogaloo Joe Jones – What it is (PRCD24309) (16/8/71) Only the JHS hasn’t been reissued on CD. In addition to the ones listed earlier, he also appeared on Johnny “Hammond” Smith – Breakout (Kudu 01) (3&4/6/71) Lonnie Smith – Mama wailer (Kudu 02) (14&15/7/71) Johnny “Hammond” Smith – Wild horses rock steady (Kudu 04) (10&11/71) Breakout is, I think, available on US or Euro CD reissues. The other two are probably only on Japanese CDs. But those are all bloody fine albums! Mucho thanks to Chuck for telling the story about Creed Taylor giving GWJr his gig at Kudu. It was said, at the time, that he got his own first LP because Hank Crawford failed to show. But “Inner city blues”, Kudu 03, COULDN’T have been intended as a Hank Crawford date; Hank simply couldn’t have handled those arrangements, which sound like Bob James tailored them specifically for Grover. I stopped buying Grover when he moved to Elektra, EXCEPT for “Winelight”, which is kind of the acme of his move towards Smooth, and “Togethering”. When I saw “Winelight” in the shop, I just had to buy it – that sleeve had the exact kind of vibe. Here’s a list of Grover’s albums as leader or joint leader. INNER CITY BLUES - KUDU 03 ALL KINGS HORSES - KUDU 07 SOUL BOX - KUDU 12/13 MR MAGIC - KUDU 20 FEELS SO GOOD - KUDU 24 A SECRET PLACE - KUDU 32 LIVE AT THE BIJOU - KUDU 36/37 REED SEED - MOTOWN 7-910 SKYLARKIN - MOTOWN 7-933 PARADISE - ELEKTRA 182 WINELIGHT - ELEKTRA 305 COME MORNING - ELEKTRA 562 BEST IS YET TO COME - ELEKTRA 60215 INSIDE MOVES - ELEKTRA 60318 TOGETHERING - BLUE NOTE 85106 HOUSE FULL OF LOVE - COLUMBIA (A) 40270 STRAWBERRY MOON - COLUMBIA (A) 40510 THEN AND NOW - COLUMBIA (A) 44256 TIME OUT OF MIND - COLUMBIA (A) 45253 NEXT EXIT - COLUMBIA (A) 48530 ALL MY TOMORROWS - COLUMBIA (A) 64319 SOULFUL STRUT - COLUMBIA (A) 57505 BREATH OF HEAVEN - COLUMBIA (A) 68527 ARIA - COLUMBIA (A) 61864 (Sorry it's a bit cockeyed.) MG

I love this one, too. Prefer it to "African violet", the one before. I think it was Blue's last recording as a leader - though neither of the Impulse LPs has a recording date on it, so it's hard to be certain. "Mapenzi" and "Last dance/Stablemates" were done in April 1977. The two Impulses are said to have been done in 1977, as well, I assume later in the year. Blue's last recording, as far as I know, was Louie Bellson's "Jam with Blue Mitchell" on Pablo 2310-838 (OJCCD802) recorded in September 1978. You'd like that one Chewy - Pete Christlieb & Ross Tompkins are the other main participants. MG

No contest in my collection. Cal Tjader's "Huracan" on Crystal Clear; a 45RPM Direct Disc from 1978. It absolutely LEAPS off the turntable! MG PS engineer - Pat Maloney at Heider's studio

No - Wild Bill, Bill Jennings and Chris Columbus were the originators and popularisers of the organ trio concept. (Fiddling? Come on, Jim, you know better than that.) baby Face's sound is fabulous! And as you say, does derive from church organists. I've got some recordings of Professor Herman Stevens where he sounds very much like Baby Face, though of course, in reality it's the other way round. The comparison with Christian sounds absolutely right to me. But you'd be astonished if the public perception and popularity (which is what those polls measure) of Christian was that he was as far ahead of Burrell, Kessell, Montgomery etc as JOS was of the other organists. MG

MG, What were the four albums Groove charted in '66? My guess would be Soul Message, maybe Living Soul, which I first saw in a Pittsburgh store in December of that year, and maybe two PJ releases, After Hours and Groovin' with Jug. Am I right? May Soul message - pop #89 26 wks; R&B #3 27 wks Aug Tell it like it is - R&B #17 5 wks Oct Livin' soul - pop #143 3 wks; R&B #3 15 wks Dec Misty - pop #134 6 wks MG

Here's something I put up originally on AAJ (lead balloon). It's a pity that Pete Fallico has taken down his interesting articles; there was a good one on Freddie. MG

He has been discussed here. I think there might be another thread or two. Guy Nice thread that I hadn't seen before. Added a bit. Thanks Guy. MG

Thanks for the bump Eric. A really nice session, this. The US JAM issue was on their cheapo ($5:9) 5000 series. The ones that started at 1 weer, I think, better pressings. This one was apparently originally recorded for the Japanese label Discomate. I would guess an original Discomate pressing would be wonderful. MG PS I think the original title on Discomate was "Stablemates".

Yes. MG (It's a bit big, though.)

Got a big list, which I'm going to ignore for a couple of months (hur hur - bet you can't) as I ODed on African records a couple of weeks ago. MG

Belated greetings and best wishes. MG

I don't think I want to use the word promoted, Clem. Promotion is the business of people who own things they want to sell. I certainly can't see Lion & Wolff trying to promote JOS by claiming he was so far ahead of the rest that the rest weren't even in the same league. After all, they had a big investment in some of those other organists. I suspect that Creed Taylor, who didn't have a big investment in organists, probably knew damn well there was more to lose thn gain along that route. When I talk about hype in this context, I'm referring to the critics, whom I truly believe were some combination of: a) lazy; and b) ignorant of the scene out of which all this stuff arose. I believe that, to them, JOS was the "token organist". This does as big an injustice to JOS as to the others. Unless someone respectable like Larry comes along and tells me I'm wrong, I'll stick to hype. MG

I started off thinking "HELL YEAH!" But then I thought, well... These technical points such as drawbar pushing etc are vitally important to musicians, to enable them to perform what has always seemed a miracle to me. But they shouldn't be regarded as any more than the means of developing (perhaps) and (certainly) getting across the musician's vision. It's the vision that's important. That's what the customer is buying. I'm not buying welding skills when I take a trip in a plane - though without them I'd die. I'm buying a vision expressed in music, not skill. And it's therefore as well to remember that JOS' vision, which you've expressed better than I could, wasn't the only one out there. So it isn't all of what jazz organ is. What it is is the MAINSTREAM of jazz organ. Yessssss! So, there were other visions out there. Larry Young eventually developed a different vision. But before that, Hank Marr had a rather different vision (which seems to me to have been shared by McDuff, for a while - while he was with Gator, I think). That was a vision that owed quite a bit to Bill Doggett (and maybe Tommy Dean, though I'm not sure how well known his recordings were outside the midwest). That was a vision of an organ functioning as part of a band that was there to put on a show. JHS had yet another vision of jazz organ, though he swapped around, picking up a lot of ideas from JOS (and also Earland in the early '70s). But the essential JHS vision owed more - in terms of general approach to a song - to Garner than JOS. (In the same way, Sonny Phillips seems to me to be an Ahmad Jamal man - Phillips did most of his woodshedding in Chicago, I believe.) The music of both Garner and Jamal can be mistaken for cocktail bar music, though of course it isn't. And that of JHS and Sonny can be regarded in a similar light. All those guys (and Willette, but nuff sed) developed their ideas in the Midwest, if I recall correctly. Maybe there is something in that. But even in the Newark/Philly area, when you think about Freddie Roach, Lou Bennett and Rhoda Scott, you have three more very different visions of how to use the organ in a jazz environment. In a sense, jazz organ is no more monolithic than jazz itself. Thank God! If everyone really WAS a JOS clone, there REALLY wouldn't be any interest. MG