The Magnificent Goldberg

Shagal, the Jewish vampire who isn't stopped by a cross Marc Chagall Karl Marx

Yes, but in my experience he makes a buzz saw sound subtle. Also, don't tell me about "tradition." In the glorious history of the trombone in so-called traditional jazz, I don't know of anyone who ever played the horn as crudely as Gordon does, at least not willfully. Does that mean that Gordon can't play well, or that he can but makes bad decisions? MG It means IMO that some early jazz trombonists -- e.g. Kid Ory, Honore Dutrey, Ike Rogers -- played in an arguably crude, blatant, awkward manner (rhythmically, in terms of timbre, phrasing etc., albeit not, at best, without significant emotional power that served the ensembles they were part of) because they didn't have much if any choice about it. The trombone in their hands was, so to speak, still a relatively blunt instrument; it would be up to players like Jimmy Harrison, Miff Mole, and Jack Teagarden to change things/present new options. As for Gordon's making bad decisions, that judgment is in the ears of the beholder. What I meant is that Gordon chooses to play with IMO considerable timbral crudeness and to fairly often phrase in a similarly blatant manner when he almost certainly knows his way around the instrument more than well enough to play somewhat otherwise. This, again I think, was not the case with figures like Ory, Dutrey, and Rodgers. I brought them up BTW because I have the impression that some of Gordon's fans think that he plays the way he does because he's honoring and elaborating on the tradition of trombone playing in early jazz. My experience of trombone playing in early jazz suggests suggests that this would-be connection is stylistically and historically dubious. Further, and perhaps most important, if one has a taste for big-toned blustery trombonists of many eras, as you do, I see little or no relationship between the playing of Gordon and that of the big-toned, non-J.J. inclined, trombonists that you've mentioned and admire. Thank you, Larry. MG

Do you travel for long periods of time, or something? I've personally never understood the need to carry tens of thousands of songs around. When I get the bus into Cardiff to go shopping, I like to able to listen to what I like. Ditto when I go on holiday. I don't like trying to forecast what I'll want to hear before I go. So an ipod allows me to choose as the day unwinds. I haven't got my whole collection on it, but most of the recent material I've got is there. MG

Half fill a glass goldfish bowl with water, stir with silver spoon, striking the rim of the bowl occasionally. Listen. Also reread #2 Alternatively, listen to The Mar-Keys 'Ebb tide'. MG

Damn me, but I've never owned a mobile phone and don't want one. So, if this 160gb ipod breaks, I'm fucked? What's the alternative? MG

Mister Bates Master Bates The Wankers

Yes, but in my experience he makes a buzz saw sound subtle. Also, don't tell me about "tradition." In the glorious history of the trombone in so-called traditional jazz, I don't know of anyone who ever played the horn as crudely as Gordon does, at least not willfully. Does that mean that Gordon can't play well, or that he can but makes bad decisions? MG

Clark Terry, or did I miss his departure? MG

BFT126 1 This spiky little riff sounds as if it’s based on some bebop number I can’t call to mind. It’s as if someone’s trying to be cleverer than Bird or Monk. When the tenor starts soloing, it’s quite kind of nice. Can’t say I’m keen on the guitar; Jimmy Ponder used to put these queer sounds into some of his work in the early eighties and I didn’t really dig it then. See, the sound’s letting him coast. (Nice ending ) 2 Oh, after the watery opening, I expected them to play ‘Ebb tide’ or ‘Goldfish bowl being stirred with a silver spoon’ or something. Sounds like the sax player and the pianist should be playing unison lines but can’t get themselves straight. A nice pretentious piece. I haven’t anything against it except it’s pretending to be more than is there. It keeps stopping momentarily – is that my computer playing up or is it something else? 3 Terribly corny sound the soprano player managed to achieve at the start, but it’s a bit better now he’s off soloing. But he’s still not achieving the penetration that is the real asset of a soprano sax. 4 A bunch of German drunks having a whale of a time to themselves. Reminds me of some of the music from the Marat/Sade. ‘Don’t spoil your pretty little shoes, The gutter’s deep and red. Climb up, climb up and ride along with me, The tumbril driver said. Don’t soil your pretty little pants I only go one way Climb up, climb up and ride along with me, There’s no gold coach today.” I think Peter Weiss would have liked this. Really can’t say I do. I see the bierkeller audience enjoyed it, though, so that’s something. 5 Rather thin sound the alto player has. The singer has a nice voice; a bit like a white Roberta Flack might sound if she tried to do this. She’s good at it, whoever she is. And so’s the tenor player. And the pianist. There’s no doubt this is good music, played and sung well. What I’m not sure about is why they’re doing it. Maybe the title of the piece would explain something, but not if it’s ‘Qh4y34’. Did I guess the title right? 6 Not sure what to make of this. The rhythm section has a nice groove. The tenor player has a not too nice sound and not a lot to say with it. The trumpet player sounds nice, but also isn’t telling me the story of his life, or even of his lice. I’d quite like to hear the rhythm section with different horns. 7 Here we go, sucker for a nice big baritone sound. I can definitely sit and listen to him for nine minutes ten seconds and probably will. Well, after four, I’m kind of wishing there’d been a theme he was playing, other than ‘Goldfish bowl being stirred with a silver spoon’, because I can’t remember where he started off and where he’s going now. And I’ve no idea where the pianist is going now he’s on. I mean, it’s all very nice meanderings, but I’m not getting it and I can hear there’s something to get. Gonna stop and get myself a cuppa. 8 Extraneous sounds from some whistling thing make this piece a lot more interesting than it would have been without them, but I’ve got to say that the interest is still only quite marginal. The extraneous noises got louder, but the interest didn’t grow… Oh well, they’re fading away now. Oh, nice neat ending. 9 Is this someone who’s been listening to that George Russell chap with his Ionian modes and such? I like the trombonist’s gritty sound, but he seems to be playing not quite but nearly at random. Don’t like the guitarist’s sound; too electronic, not enough sound of fingers, if you get me. Now we’ve a tenor player. I thought he knew what was supposed to be happening the way he came in, which was great, but now… this is what a lady friend used to call jazz wanking. Now back to the theme, kind of. 10 Nice theme, but not instantly memorable, I think. Nice tenor player. Nice trumpet player, too. And the pianist. Bass and drums are fine, too. Sounds to me as if all these guys were around in the fifties/sixties and didn’t need to be taught how to think right. I expect I could recognise one or two of them if I gave my mind to it, but I’m enjoying the music too much to bother. But this piece doesn’t seem to come from the sixties, it’s a more recent recording, perhaps some kind of reunion band or some such aggregation. Well, maybe the drummer is a younger guy… 11 Amplified string quartet plus rhythm? Could do better 2/10. Rock guitarist? 1/10. Well, I’m going to say Jean-Luc Ponty, just because I haven’t made any guesses yet. Nice car. Thanks for the ride. Although I haven’t liked very much of it, I always find BFTs interesting; hearing stuff that’s off the menu is always stimulating. Well, on to Fela Kuti’s ‘Perambulator’, then bed, thinking of ‘Him just a perambulator, him stay in de same, same place’ as I drop off. MG

Beat me to it, Jim. In addition, on at least one cut of Kenny Burrell's 'Ellington is forever' Joe is backed up by Jimmy Smith - 'Take the A train'. (And there are non-organ soul jazz dates with him, like Nat Adderley's 'Sayin' somethin''.) MG

I first heard him in 1963 - this was it and if that's not Groove Holmes on organ there, I'm an Antarctic penguin http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tJUQNseYUZQ Did Sam ever sound so great? Here's another great arrangement he did - this for Ray Charles; a cover of Chuck Jackson's 'I wake up crying'. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7aIkV0OFoF0 How GOOD he made this stuff sound! People talk about jazz musicians doing commercial work to support their jazz activities, but if those arrangements aren't PURE Gerald Wilson jazz activities, well I dunno what is. BFTs have proved it, I can't recognise Duke Ellington orchestrations, but I CAN recognise Gerald's work. Can't live without all these nice Gerald Wilson recordings. RIP, and many, many thanks for what you did. MG

Thanks MG but per Amazon, Concord issued an expanded version in 2011 with six more tracks. And there are new copies under $6 through the Marketplace. Way less than what I paid for the LP. Hell, I'd better get that one. I assume it's this that you're talking about Which I found here http://www.amazon.co.uk/Live-In-Concert-Ray-Charles/dp/B0041KVJZK/ref=sr_1_36?ie=UTF8&qid=1410201368&sr=8-36&keywords=ray+charles+live Reviews say the sound isn't as good on the new stuff as on the original album tracks; that seems to be a drag. This is what someone says - Not sure I'll bother. If someone else has this, comment would be good. MG

Wouldn't disagree with any of Larry's first four. Don't know the others. 'Idle moments' is all like the title track - I do remember that Miles Davis didn't play 'So what' as a ballad so you're not specifically interested in pure ballad albums. I'd always recommend any or all of Black & Blue's 'Midnight slows' albums - there were ten of them, some reissued on CD. I'd also recommend a bunch of Prestige Moodsville albums: Kenny Burrell & Coleman Hawkins - Bluesy Burrell Gene Ammons - Soulful moods of Gene Ammons - Nice & cool Jaws & Garland - Moodsville #1 But those are all very focused (though not exclusively) on ballads. I think the musician you're really looking for is Gene Ammons and you can buy pretty well any of the albums he made between his two prison stays - he was on top form then, very, very relaxed, but with everything to say, whether he was in up or down tempos. As a sample, you might try 'Boss tenor' and see how well it fits your idea. MG

I don't entirely agree about Fuller -- he seemed to me to be quite tonally colorful/expressive when I heard him with Joe Henderson's sadly under-recorded "In Pursuit of Blackness" band in 1971 -- but given your tastes in trombonists, do you know the explosive Buster Cooper? I particularly recommend his playing on A.K. Salim's 1957 Savoy album "Pretty for the People," which has a rather astonishing lineup: Kenny Dorham, Cooper, Johnny Griffin, Pepper Adams, Wynton Kelly, Paul Chambers, Max Roach, and Chino Pozo. Everyone is in fine form, too. http://www.amazon.com/Pretty-People-K-Salim/dp/B0037KTC4U/ref=sr_1_1?s=music&ie=UTF8&qid=1410057457&sr=1-1&keywords=salim+pretty+for+the+people Yes - the only album I've heard with him on it is Arnett Cobb's 'Smooth sailing'. A splendid player, I thought. MG

(I'll bet Chuck Nessa knows) (Or maybe not) Probably not the same guy...here's another item with Robbie Porter - and Jiggs Chase! http://www.discogs.com/Joe-Thomas-3-And-Bill-Elliott-Speak-Your-Piece/release/4020299 Beat me to it. A hell of an album. If we had a thread on underrated Sue albums, that'd be on it. Without looking at the discographical details, I'd be pretty sure anyway that Bob was already producing for Prestige when that Buddy Terry album was made. (And note, Joe Thomas was on it too; looks like the Newark mafia was out in force - did Ozzie Cadena produce the album?) MG

Oh, right, Chuck's fault MG

Well, if I'd said Louis Armstrong instead of King Oliver, would that have been any the more true? One of the great revelations of my life a good few years ago, was how funky some of the Hot Fives' cuts were. And when I got the Armstrong Decca Mosaic, I was surprised to hear him play lines that John Patton played. OK, that's not ALL that's going on, but that's not ALL that was going on with Gator, either. There is a truth there that it's all one music. MG

MG, are you serious? I'm sure plenty of black people dug that album, but doesn't your definition suggest that these "Soul Jazz" recordings were intended as entertainment for black adults in particular? "A Day In The Life"? The one with strings, and songs like "Eleanor Rigby", the title track, and "Watch What Happens"? I'm still not on board re "Crusaders 1". If that was intended for black adults, something went drastically wrong somewhere. I saw the Crusaders a few times. Blacks were in the minority at all of the shows I saw, and the crowds were quite youthful. I had friends who owned that and other Crusaders LP's, and none were black (didn't have much choice in that, but hey, we can't always control our environment). None of us were quite to the point of being referred to as "adults" at the time, either. I realize that this is a small sample size. ("Sample" size!? Okay, that was just a stroke of accidental genius ). Well, charts can help 'A day in the life' made #2 in the R&B chart, #13 in the pop chart. It was on the pop chart for a few weeks longer than the R&B chart so it's a sure bet that lots more white people bought it than black people. But it's also a sure bet that a hell of a lot of black people did buy it. It was definitely not consigned to the cutout bins in black neighbourhoods. Similarly, 'Crusaders #1' was big in the R&B charts - #29 R&B, #96 pop. Again, probably more white customers than black, but there's a hell of a lot more white people in America. These (and other soul jazz albums) are crossover records - and crossover seems to go only one way in America. I do wish Joe would make an album of that title, with a looming photo of him on the cover taken from around knee height MG

OK, Dan - this wasn't intended to be rationed and I'm not actually boss of the list (except no one else can edit the first post ). I still think Ray had the greater influence and was into jazz way before he started recording. You'll recollect on that Montreux album with Dizzy, he was rabbiting on about how he'd loved 'Salt peanuts' since he was six or seven (impossible - he was a teenager when it came out) and always wanted to play it - bullshit? Some, of course, because he was older, not a little tot. But still truth, because it was there all around him. Bearing in mind also what Danasgoodstuff pointed out about musician-musician influences, I think it's probably fine to put a few of Horace's alums in there. What do we think of 'Horace Silver & the Jazz Messengers' and 'Serenade to a soul sister'? Also, you're right about Blakey/Timmons, so would we go for 'Moanin'' or 'The big beat'? Or both? They both introduced great soul jazz standards. MG

Harouna Ishola (the king of Apala) Ayinla Omowura (another popular Apala performer) Musiliu Haruna Ishola (revitaliser of Apala Harouna's son)

My CD of the Ray Charles live doesn't have any bonus tracks. I reckon one's as well of with the vinyl as the CD, except for having to get up and turn it over. Nice buys, Dan. MG

The Three Stooges Joe Palma Fake Shemp

The Lonely One Lonely Blue Boy Conway Twitty

Jiggs Chase is actually an important musician. But not an important jazz musician. Here's what I wrote about him in a thread called 'From Wild Bill Davis to Jimmy Smith' in a section covering later followers of Wild Bill. So there you are MG

No, I don't think that's what I was saying. Living performers/business people have better things to do than dance attendance at exhibitions celebrating them, so there are no (or actually few) such things. But it's not compulsory for museums to focus on dead people's work, which is what you seemed to me to be saying. MG