Joe G

Thank you once again to everyone for the orders and the compliments. We very much appreciate the support, both the financial and the emotional. This post will also serve to usurp the Happy Birthday JoeG thread on the main board index. (But thanks again for that Jeff.)

Well, I guess that's why there is more than one band in the world. And thank God for that!

Well, how was it??

I see what you mean. What a great album! Last night, along with TS, MT, and BM, I gave a listen to Christian McBride's latest, Vertical Vision. Weather Report is all over it! They even cover Boogie Woogie Waltz. There's one tune on there where McBride comes very close to copping the bassline from Barbary Coast. What's interesting is that although I can plainly hear elements of the WR sound, the overall approach is not the same. More conventional, perhaps. I haven't heard the original Boogie Woogie Waltz, so I can't make a comparison yet. Here it's treated as a vamp to jam out on (and jam they do). While thinking about and listening to WR this week, I realized that the Pat Metheny Group has also borrowed a lot from them, although I believe that what they took was more conceptual as opposed to concrete musical ideas; things like having an international group and incorporating folk music from around the world, for instance. (BTW, wasn't it Miles that said that the best groups are always mixed?) Another group that I always knew wouldn't have even existed were it not for Weather Report was Tribal Tech, with Scott Henderson (who, I just found out, played with Zawinul) and Gary Willis. Gary is straight out of Jaco, and likewise Scott Kinsey on keyboards comes directly from Zawinul. The influence was undeniable, though Tribal Tech was much more fusion in the sense of jazz-rock with Henderson on guitar, with much less "world" music in the mix. I think you can listen to Weather Report and still call yourself elitist (but not narrow-minded) if you like, for WR was surely one of the elite groups of the past 30 years! Thanks to everyone for making this such a stimulating discussion. :rsmile: :rsmile:

Excellent! Let me know how that goes.

I just gave Tale Spinnin' a good listen on headphones. Highly recommended.

You're very welcome. I'm glad you are enjoying this music and the discussions about it as much as I am. You did read Sangrey's last post, did you not? I couldn't offer a better set of recommendations than his!

I'm one step ahead of you Big Al; I just got back from the local used CD shop where I managed to pick up the remasters of both Mysterious Traveller and Tale Spinnin', the latter of which was still wrapped! Jaco's approach was a radical rethinking of the role the bass plays, and it seems like he definitely took it to an extreme. It had a huge influence on the generation of bassists who came after, including Marcus Miller, Mark Egan, and Gary Willis, among many others. It seems like the best of those players have refined the basic style and sound that Jaco pioneered so that the concept could be integrated with the traditional function of the bass guitar, and they wouldn't get kicked out of their bands for playing too much crazy nasally upper register shit.

...but what he really helped us to discover was that we were the best!

Your enthusiasm is contagious! Thanks for sharing your views as one who has been there from the beginning, Jim. I'm going to spend some time looking into the WR catalog for sure. I love that thought about Joe and Wayne's music having a very humanistic bent. We can listen to music in many ways, listening for all sorts of different elements. A very telling thing to listen for is intention. What is this music telling us about the musician(s) playing it? Do they want to impress us, make us dance, get laid, incite violence, sell records, praise God, express deep emotion, etc., etc., The reason so much pop music leaves me totally empty is that the sole purpose of it is to garner the biggest share of the garbage market. I've heard songs lately that seem to exist only to make 14 year old girls cry so they will buy the cd and put the poster on their wall. That's fine if you are a 14 year old girl, I guess. Just doesn't do anything for me. And music that is too intellectually oriented can also leave me cold-I need the heart to be in there, too, even if I do find it technically impressive. There's a section of the title track from Black Market that really seems to have that feeling of being in touch with a sort of earthy joy that I think Jim is talking about. It's the transitional section that separates what is basically the two halves of the song; it's in 7/4 time I believe. If you listen closely, you can hear what sounds like, to me anyway, some groovy brother saying, "Yeah". As in, "right on." It's as if they are telling us, "Sure, we're the greatest fucking band in the world (Zawinal's words), but we're not above hanging out with you all and gettin' down." Or something along those lines. Anyone else get that?

That's wild! I wouldn't have even recognized him. Do you know the year?

Interesting post, Big Al! I think it's fascinating that your response to this album has been so varied and complex. You might try AfricaBrass' suggestion and give it a headphone listening, as there is a lot of detail that gets missed in the car. I agree that Heavy Weather sounds a little sterile by comparison, though it does have its' moments of greatness. I want to check out some of the other titles mentioned on this thread, like Tale Spinnin and Mysterious Traveller. randissimo has the recent live set, which I'd like to borrow at least. I don't see myself becoming a WR completist, however. Re: "the great Sangrey"; No Shit! Those posts are very well written. Better than 90% of what I read in the major jazz magazines.

You got me!

Lord knows how I love to play the martyr. :rsly:

Thanks! Love the tabby; he (she) looks terrified. I have a calico that takes on that same appearance when I pick her up. Other notable birthdays today: Andre Agassi, 33 Uma Thurman, 33 Master P, 33 Jerry Seinfeld, 49 Zubin Mehta, 67 Daniel Day Lewis, 46 Michelle Pfeiffer, 45 Eve Plumb (Jan Brady) 45... and Duke Ellington!

I'm down for that!

How kind of you to remember! I didn't actually ask for anything, especially since I just blew big bucks on a new guitar. That will have to do for about 3 birthdays and two Christmasses I think. Yep, I'm 33 now. One third of the way through my life if all goes well.

So, the washboard was the last thing you noticed, eh?

Click on the second ball from the left. It will, like, blow your mind.

Big Al, what say you? :rsmile:

Yeah, I think I remember hearing about his death, now that you mention it.

Found this link: http://www.harmolodic.com/ornette/ There's a list of further resourses. Let us know if you find anything of note.

Here's another quote from Pat that might be a closer hint of something. This response is about finding one's own voice: So perhaps it encompasses more than just a theory of the organization of musical elements. It doesn't seem to have been codified into a teachable form as far as I know, so I think we are on our own.

Here's what Pat Metheny had to say on the subject (and remember that he collaborated with Ornette on Song X with spectacular results): Sorry, I can't help you any more than that.

Thanks for finding that article Jimmy. The track notes were especially informative. And I like this quote from Wayne: Check out the article pryan; those sound effects are also discussed.