Joe G

Excellent! Let me know how that goes.

I just gave Tale Spinnin' a good listen on headphones. Highly recommended.

You're very welcome. I'm glad you are enjoying this music and the discussions about it as much as I am. You did read Sangrey's last post, did you not? I couldn't offer a better set of recommendations than his!

I'm one step ahead of you Big Al; I just got back from the local used CD shop where I managed to pick up the remasters of both Mysterious Traveller and Tale Spinnin', the latter of which was still wrapped! Jaco's approach was a radical rethinking of the role the bass plays, and it seems like he definitely took it to an extreme. It had a huge influence on the generation of bassists who came after, including Marcus Miller, Mark Egan, and Gary Willis, among many others. It seems like the best of those players have refined the basic style and sound that Jaco pioneered so that the concept could be integrated with the traditional function of the bass guitar, and they wouldn't get kicked out of their bands for playing too much crazy nasally upper register shit.

...but what he really helped us to discover was that we were the best!

Your enthusiasm is contagious! Thanks for sharing your views as one who has been there from the beginning, Jim. I'm going to spend some time looking into the WR catalog for sure. I love that thought about Joe and Wayne's music having a very humanistic bent. We can listen to music in many ways, listening for all sorts of different elements. A very telling thing to listen for is intention. What is this music telling us about the musician(s) playing it? Do they want to impress us, make us dance, get laid, incite violence, sell records, praise God, express deep emotion, etc., etc., The reason so much pop music leaves me totally empty is that the sole purpose of it is to garner the biggest share of the garbage market. I've heard songs lately that seem to exist only to make 14 year old girls cry so they will buy the cd and put the poster on their wall. That's fine if you are a 14 year old girl, I guess. Just doesn't do anything for me. And music that is too intellectually oriented can also leave me cold-I need the heart to be in there, too, even if I do find it technically impressive. There's a section of the title track from Black Market that really seems to have that feeling of being in touch with a sort of earthy joy that I think Jim is talking about. It's the transitional section that separates what is basically the two halves of the song; it's in 7/4 time I believe. If you listen closely, you can hear what sounds like, to me anyway, some groovy brother saying, "Yeah". As in, "right on." It's as if they are telling us, "Sure, we're the greatest fucking band in the world (Zawinal's words), but we're not above hanging out with you all and gettin' down." Or something along those lines. Anyone else get that?

That's wild! I wouldn't have even recognized him. Do you know the year?

Interesting post, Big Al! I think it's fascinating that your response to this album has been so varied and complex. You might try AfricaBrass' suggestion and give it a headphone listening, as there is a lot of detail that gets missed in the car. I agree that Heavy Weather sounds a little sterile by comparison, though it does have its' moments of greatness. I want to check out some of the other titles mentioned on this thread, like Tale Spinnin and Mysterious Traveller. randissimo has the recent live set, which I'd like to borrow at least. I don't see myself becoming a WR completist, however. Re: "the great Sangrey"; No Shit! Those posts are very well written. Better than 90% of what I read in the major jazz magazines.

You got me!

Lord knows how I love to play the martyr. :rsly:

Thanks! Love the tabby; he (she) looks terrified. I have a calico that takes on that same appearance when I pick her up. Other notable birthdays today: Andre Agassi, 33 Uma Thurman, 33 Master P, 33 Jerry Seinfeld, 49 Zubin Mehta, 67 Daniel Day Lewis, 46 Michelle Pfeiffer, 45 Eve Plumb (Jan Brady) 45... and Duke Ellington!

I'm down for that!

How kind of you to remember! I didn't actually ask for anything, especially since I just blew big bucks on a new guitar. That will have to do for about 3 birthdays and two Christmasses I think. Yep, I'm 33 now. One third of the way through my life if all goes well.

So, the washboard was the last thing you noticed, eh?

Click on the second ball from the left. It will, like, blow your mind.

Big Al, what say you? :rsmile:

Yeah, I think I remember hearing about his death, now that you mention it.

Found this link: http://www.harmolodic.com/ornette/ There's a list of further resourses. Let us know if you find anything of note.

Here's another quote from Pat that might be a closer hint of something. This response is about finding one's own voice: So perhaps it encompasses more than just a theory of the organization of musical elements. It doesn't seem to have been codified into a teachable form as far as I know, so I think we are on our own.

Here's what Pat Metheny had to say on the subject (and remember that he collaborated with Ornette on Song X with spectacular results): Sorry, I can't help you any more than that.

Thanks for finding that article Jimmy. The track notes were especially informative. And I like this quote from Wayne: Check out the article pryan; those sound effects are also discussed.

See, Jim? Like I said last night, you need to change your whole shit!

About Jaco and Alphonso, I think my favorite moment from Jaco is also the quietest. It's the very end of Cannon Ball, just a two chord phrase that repeats, but it's a beautiful ending to the tune. Otherwise if I need a Jaco fix, I'll go to Heavy Weather and listen to Havona and Teen Town (or Metheny's Bright Size Life. I haven't heard that Joni album). You're right AfricaBrass, Alphonso is the man on Black Market. Nice tone and great feel. I can't even say "especially on..." because I'd have to name every tune on the album that he plays. If I was an electric bassist I would have learned every song note for note, as I'm sure many have. Has anyone else read the Jaco biography written by Bill Milkowski? It's a sad story of course, but an interesting read.

Actually Jim, Kenny makes that point several times throughout the book. He stresses that this is a path of action, not theory. Ghost--Who the hell is that!?

So nice to hear from JSngry! I can only concur with his assesment, especially on the point of how organically integrated the electronics are on this album. In the hands of such masters, electronic instruments become simply another tool in the realization of their vision. Jim had another good point mentioning the SPIRIT of this album. It is so infectious! It is, at the same time, a deeply informed (and informative) transmission of the era. In that regard it makes me think of the space probe that was sent out with the music of Bach. Black Market just really speaks to me of that particular time and place in which it was conceived, though I was very young at the time of its' release. As I briefly mentioned earlier, this was one of the first "jazz" albums I bought when I finally tired of hard rock/metal in the late 80's. So naturally, I was intitially drawn to Gibraltar and Herandu. In fact, it was the solo section of Herandu that really sparked my imagination, as I pictured myself being able to play lines like Zawinal played, and more importantly, being in a group that could play a groove like that! I liked most of the other tunes, just not as much. Now I enjoy the whole album immensely. AfricaBrass mentioned the Zappa feel, and that is strongest on Gibraltar by far. That is such a killer track. Pryan, I would strongly recommend getting the latest remaster if you are at all inclined. It's a big improvement all around. More later.