xybert

Some fascinating thoughts and insights on Rollins in this thread. I think i'm still trying to get my head around him; i enjoy his albums and recognise him as being one of the greats, but i've never perceived him as being... what others clearly perceive him as being, others that were there at the time. I'm perfectly happy to be getting schooled, but it's going to take some listening for my ears to catch up.

Love it. So much love and nostalgia for the 8 bit and 16 bit eras. For people of a certain age, this is our childhood, simple as that. Videogames are what we tripped out to while our parents were busy having meltdowns and getting divorced etc. A bit like Woodstock, you probably had to be there. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lXFwo_FRdhE http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ed59hQFwA6Q

It's seems like it's pretty clear cut for most people: "They stopped putting out records that i liked, so i stopped buying them." Does anyone get emotional or feel torn about it? Not sure why i'm beating myself up about it. I think, using Metheny as an example again, i don't feel like there's been a significant decline in the quality of his albums. I actually thought that Unity Band was one of his best ever albums, but at the time of my original post i still felt like i wanted to get out.

Agreed. It's time we had a section for threads relating to jazz via streaming/downloading. How about it Moderators? I still tend to think in album terms - 'Kind of Blue', 'Giant Steps etc'. I already find the idea of a separate thread for vinyl a bit odd. Having another for downloads seems even odder. Seems to promote the medium above the message. Those for whom it matters can always indicate the preferred medium in the main 'What are you listening to?' thread. . ********************** Despite my personal preference for CD i agree... if someone says "hey i'm listening to Kind of Blue" i don't really need to know whether it's on CD, vinyl or MP3 etc... not judging those that like to know or like to express themselves in that way in the slightest, it's just me.

This is a great one - I think Discovery is even better. Really? Dang, another album for the wish list.

Yeah, it's a bit of a case by case thing. I consider Braxton to be someone that i follow, however i'm still cherry picking through the massive discography and i don't feel obligated to pick up his many new releases in order to feel like i'm a true fan or whatever. I'm the same with Lee Konitz and John Zorn and many others. I also think there are prolific artists like Mary Halvorson that have their major releases which i consider to be the must buys and quite happily stick to those and still feel like i'm 'following'. There's also that thing where if i look at my Braxton collection there are many 3-4 year gaps spread out across his career where i don't have anything he's released so buying a new release by him every few years is consistent with my collection. By comparison, with Metheny and other artists like Threadgill or a relative newbie like Steve Lehman I either have or have heard most of their output and so it's really down to the new releases as they come along, hence it feels like more of a 'big deal' to skip something.

Edit: Many thanks for the responses all. There are definitely cases where a relatively drastic stylistic change that sticks takes place, however It's not unusual for an artist to be stylistically eclectic these days. Bitches Brew/In a Silent Way marked the start of a completey new era for Miles; nowadays an artist would go from Bitches Brew to ESP to On The Corner and then put out Sketches of Spain in that order. I don't think it's necessarilly a deal breaker like it used to be. Using Metheny as an example again, i'm sure a lot of fans would have happily skipped Zero Tolerance For Silence or even Orchestrion and then happily pick up where they left off when the next album arrives. Is there any way you'd be able to provide a link to any Unity Group tracks? I've found it really frustrating not being able to preview anything. I really enjoyed the Unity Band album, and do find the idea of the expanded Unity Group to be appealing. I've been reflecting a bit lately on my unnecessary need to preorder stuff. What's wrong with just waiting and letting the dust settle? The funny thing is i don't buy every single album that Metheny puts out, but the Unity Group album is one that i normally would buy. Not sure why skipping this album has to feel so final but it does for some reason. I know this is really sissy/first world problems territory but i think it's the emotional aspect that i'm struggling with more than anything. It really feels like cutting off a friendship.

Recently purchased Of Course, Of Course. It's a joy of an album, worth hearing for Tony Williams and Ron Carter alone but i feel like this is one of those gem albums where you don't need to be a fan of the personnel in general to enjoy it. Highly recommended.

I remember reading this interview and thinking "who is this random guy?" It's only in the last year that i 'discovered' Jermy Pelt after picking up The Talented Mr Pelt in a bargain bin on a nothing to lose whim; absolutely loved it and picked up a couple of other albums by the same group (they were absolutely killer at what they did IMO). It's funny now realising that Burno was that guy from that interview... reading the interview with new perspective.

I've been umming and ahhing about cancelling my pre-order for the new Pat Metheny Unity Group album, Kin, due out in early February. Historically i've been a fan but there is no denying that i enjoy some of his stuff more than others. There's a ton of stuff to potentially dislike about Metheny's music, but more and more i've developed a fatal dislike for his tone on certain albums (it seems to vary from album to album) and i definitely feel that he is over-represented in my collection. The problem is that the stuff of his that i love i love and continuing to buy his albums is a bit like chasing that elusive high. So here's the crux: I don't want to buy his new album, but i feel like i can't not. I just can't bring myself to say "that's it, case closed, my Metheny journey will go no further." Part of me feels trapped, like i'm in an abusive relationship that i can't get out of (joking). Another part of me feels like it would be like walking away from an old friend. From a collection prespective it just feels weird that my Metheny collection will go no further. So anyway, i don't intend for this thread to be about Metheny, just using my current conundrum as an example (although feel free to talk about Metheny, if you want). This is not "i've gone off this artist and i am going to sell off my collection of their music ASAP," or "i have enough Charlie Parker in my collection for now," this is "Historically i've followed this artist fairly avidly and i will treasure the memories but despite the fact that they are still fairly prolific i will follow them no further." Has anyone else got any experience of having followed an artist and at some point decided enough is enough? Was it a particular album that did it? Were you tempted to buy their next album? How did you get through it? Cheers.

Awesome. The Halvorson/Fujiwara combo is obviously rock solid and tried and true, putting Formanek in the mix really gets the imagination going. Info and a full song are now available on the Cuneiform site: http://www.cuneiformrecords.com/bandshtml/thumbscrew.html

I used to do that with a lot of discs that came in cardboard sleeves etc (the Clean Feed brown border period, ugh) but pretty much gave up as it became more and more prevalent. I figure if that's how the artist/label wants to present it, then fug it. Plus the aforementioned 'only ever take the disc out once' thing works for me.

Just double check the discs to make sure "Side Steps" doesn't have concentric scratches. I got my set a long time ago and while the disc with said scratches remarkably plays flawlessly, I think that might of occured when the set was banging around in the truck on the way to the store. Anyway, I am in the get it all camp with Trane also. Thanks for the heads up, luckily no scratches on my discs. I'm not a huge fan of the 'overlapping discs' method either, but it's okay. 95% of box sets that i encounter seem to have less than ideal packaging for the discs themselves, it's part of the trade off for me, although it probably doesn't have to be that way. I only ever take them out once in order to rip them to my computer and then that's it so it's not too much of a biggie for me.

We went and stayed at my grandmothers place for a few days leading up to new years, wasn't much to do there but listen to music. I basically immersed myself in Coltrane's Prestige leader albums and absolutely loved it. A bit like the Mobley Mosaic, i don't think there's any one album that if i'd heard it on it's own would have convinced me that i need to own it all, but also like the Mobley Mosaic it's a fantastic body of work and is just so damn enjoyable. At this stage i would say that the Prestige material is definitely my favourite Coltrane overall, i'm definitely in the 'get it all' camp, however i'm still flush with excitement and it's going to be really interesting revisiting the Atlantic and Impulse stuff in this new light. Apart from that, it was interesting rereading this thread having actually heard the music; so many good points have been made and i really don't have anything much to add. On a side note the Interplay and Side Steps boxes arrived and i have to say the packaging and accompanying booklets (practically books) are extremely handsome.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IweiGkFq_9E

Regarding Wolf of Wall Street, haven't seen it but i find the trailer and the thought of seeing the full movie depressingly unappealing. I often enjoy movies where criminals are the 'heroes'; I dug The Godfather, Goodfellas, The Sopranos despite the fact that the mob are the scum of the earth. There's just nothing cool for me about Wall Street and that whole shebang. Right or wrong it's just deeply uncool to me. I think there's a bit of a disconnect there for me with Dicaprio and Jonah Hill playing the leads; they would have grown up watching Scorcese movies and judging by the trailer it's apparent on screen, in a bad way.

This arrived yesterday and i'm just in the process of ripping the CDs to my computer now. Just to confirm a couple of things: The listing on the Discogs site (at time of posting) for 'Traneing In' is an error; the correct Prestige version is included in the box set. The box does come with a booklet but it just has two pages for each album: a full page reproduction of the cover art and the recording date/personnel etc info on the opposite page; there are no other liner notes as such. CDs are housed in quality 3 x double CD Jewel cases that hold 4 CDs each; all three Jewell cases are housed in a thin cardboard sleeve. From what i can see this is a repackaging of the Original Jazz Classics CD releases as they originally appeared in the eighties and nineties. The CDs have that familiar silver and yellow top side, here's some randomly picked mastering info for reference: Lush Life = Digital Remastering 1987 - Joe Tarantino Stardust = Digital Remastering 1997 - Phil De Lancie So if that's what ya want, that's what ya get. Pretty happy with this but i've since ordered the Side Steps and Interplay boxes so time will tell whether i regret not getting the Fearless Leader version of this material. I think i'll survive. The scary thing is i can see myself heading that way, on a long enough timeline.

I can see where Milestones is coming from, being surprised by the love for the Prestige albums here. I mean, i certainly didn't think they were hated, but definitely didn't think that the general concensus would be "get it all if you're crazy enough to not have already!" For me this thread is a massive example of the power of words and how we form impressions of things. This thread has completely changed my perspective on the Presige years and Coltrane in general, and i haven't even actually *listened* to the vast majority of the Prestige stuff yet. Also, as the years have gone by, just speaking for myself, i'm finding that 'in' is the new 'out'.

Blue Train has never been a favorite of mine either. Listened to Dakar earlier today, I really like that session and I like the RVG. I'm really looking forward to hearing Dakar... even with realistic expectations i'm getting more and more excited about hearing this material on the whole... i feel like there's been this goldmine sitting right under my nose... "i see, said the blind man..."

Whew... nice spotting by Cali but i'm reasonably positive that it'll be an error on Discogs' part. I will be severely annoyed if it is indeed the wrong version of Traneing In in the box set, but after i took a second it does seem unlikely. Anyway, i'll confirm once the set arrives. And yeah, 'remastered'... part of me almost hopes that it's not a new remaster, as i'd rather go with the 'if it ain't broke' method than risk a potentially bad remaster...

Thanks for mentioning this; i have a copy of this book at home and with my newfound burst of enthusiasm for Coltrane i'm really looking forward to revisiting it.

Ha ha, like i said, i definitely should have checked here first before making my purchase. I definitely won't fight you on this, as objectively the 16 disc set is probably going to suit most people better and at this stage i don't have either set to compare. The booklet will definitely be a plus for some, i prefer jewel cases to cardboard sleeves but cardboard sleeves definitely aren't a deal breaker for me. Other than that i can't comment on the sound (i'm actually quietly hoping that they are the same) and it's worth noting that the 12 disc set only covers the leader dates, one album per disc, as opposed to the complete 16 CD set that covers all the side man stuff too. I figured the 12 CD set would be seen as a less favourable option but i think it's good to have it documented in this thread for the sake of future searchers, even if they it's just as a warning not to get it! I have and dig the Miles prestige stuff with Coltrane, bringing up Blue Train reminded me of another reason why i previously never explored Coltrane's Prestige leader discs = Blue Train has never been a favourite of mine.

Yeah... I have a lot of thoughts on Coltrane that i feel like thinking aloud but i feel like i won't be able to get the tone right in a forum post (hasn't stopped me before, but anyway). Coltrane has always come off as a bit humourless and po faced to me, and hey not everybody has to be Jokey McJoke Joke, there's definitely a place for humourless, po faced artists especially when they can back it up like, of all people, COLTRANE but... yeah... I love a lot of his music, i really do (nyaaaargh). I'm getting better and better at throwing out the extraneous crap... Zorn's Spy Vs. Spy greatly aided me in getting in to Ornette, by comparison i can't think of a single Coltrane tribute off the top of my head (and there's probably hundreds if not thousands) that has added to my enjoyment of Coltrane. If anything they slightly chip away at my enjoyment. And then there's the legions of imitators. There's a point in there somewhere. All the extraneous crap around Coltrane... I'm really, really looking forward to getting in to these Prestige albums. Just what i feel like at the moment and i feel like it's going to cast Coltrane in a new light for me. In hindsight not getting in to Coltrane's early years was a major oversight on my part. Will get to hear the foundation, before he was literally deified. Edit to try and fix the weird spacing, failed.

I know I held back on this material for many years because the word was 1) Coltrane here was early and unformed, "not really Coltrane"; 2) the material was too traditional and boring compared to the later, more revolutionary Coltrane; and 3) the only "true" Coltrane was found in his Impulse explorations (though everyone also loved The Gentle Side of JC). Obviously, actually hearing the Prestige material shows otherwise. Yeah, similar points to what mjzee is saying for me. I've definitely enjoyed Coltrane's music in the past but i never went crazy for him or other Tenor Sax Heroes like i did Monk, Mingus, Ellington etc and when it comes to sax i tend to gravitate towards alto players for whatever reason. I think only getting in to This Music in the last 8 years or so, it's arguable that Coltrane's impact on my ears was lessened by all the players who he's directly influenced, whereas by comparison to this day there is NO ONE that sounds like Monk, for example (and you can site Herbie Nichols, Andrew Hill, Don Pullen or whoever else until the cows come home but they all have their own thing to my ears, which is great!). I know that it's arguable that no one sounds quite like Coltrane, but he really is the sound of modern tenor sax; it's all pervasive. Anyway, that's my half baked, ass pulled reasoning; all bullshit aside although enjoyable i just never found Coltrane exciting in the same way as Monk, Ornette, Threadgill and on and on... So, i've enjoyed Coltrane but haven't gone crazy for him and therefore never felt a huge need to get in to the Prestige stuff, which i definitely perceived as being inessential. This thread has changed my mind. I don't have it anymore but i used to really enjoy the Burrell/Coltrane album. I probably don't need all the Prestige stuff at this stage, but as i literally have none of it in my collection, there'll be no double ups for me and it makes economic sense to get the boxed sets (if i just wanted to get 4 leader dates they would pretty much costs the same as a box set = may as well get the box set). I should have really checked here first whether it was a good idea rather than getting Fearless Leader but i went ahead and ordered this: Amazon UK http://www.amazon.co.uk/His-Prestige-Albums-John-Coltrane/dp/B004XPM3LC/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1387690484&sr=8-1&keywords=coltrane+prestige+box Discogs http://www.discogs.com/John-Coltrane-His-Prestige-Albums/release/4739522 12 albums, just the leader dates, no bonus tracks, 12 CDs in 3 CD double jewel cases. It doesn't really make much difference but i like that each album is on it's own CD. I am really looking forward to chilling with this over the holiday season. Should keep me going for a while, and if i feel the need i'll follow it up with the Side Steps and Interplay boxes. Edit to fix picture.

Yes please. The fact that ECM is reissuing Seven Songs for Quartet and Chamber Orchestra gives me hope for more (an interesting turn as in recent times ECM has appeared to be reluctant to reissue single CDs that have never been on CD).